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Huawei Warns Trump And Google: You’re Running Out Of Time

I am not misunderstanding the situation. It seems u have missed the key point I'm making. Go back and read both of my posts. I never argued about Harmony OS being successful.

My argument was that if Huawei and Google feud continues...
"a THIRD OS would emerge"
Right now the market(whole world) is dominated by iOS and Android. With Huawei going its own way...there would be a third OS sharing in that chunk(first domestically and then slowly internationally).

This third OS may not be Harmony OS necessarily. They might fail with that or they might succeed. Eventually they will succeed though(whether with Harmony or a fork of Android).

Now coming to whether that third OS(software used by a phone that is neither Apple's nor Google's in terms of control)...is going to be entirely new from the ground up or is it going to be built atop the android base...

The very barebones android operating system(the open sourced one) is free for Huawei(or anyone) to use without any licensing from Google. Plenty of forks already exist...one such fork is LineageOS. There are others. If Huawei is to use that barebones android as the base...and build on top of it...it can come up with a third OS...
...an operating system not in terms of an inherently NEW one created from the ground up kind of operating system...
...but an operating system that branches out from an already existing one. An example of LineageOS can be used here. For example if in the world today the smartphones used around the world were using iOS(40%), Android OS(43%), and LineageOS(17%)...Lineage would make up that third OS. Yes it's based on Android at its core...yes apps developed for lineage can be used on Android and vice versa...but it is still an operating system.

So again...I'm not saying that it will be Harmony OS(an entirely new OS) that will emerge as the successful third OS taking away market share that has so far been dominated by iOS and Android. I'm saying there will emerge a third OS(whether or not an Android fork) that will take away market share from Google. Huawei has the domestic market to sustain itself until a mature third OS comes about.


Ah, I see what you are saying.

I still disagree.
Huawei is huge but its still no Microsoft or even Blackberry or Nokia in their prime (pre 2007). I understand your hope for a third OS but I honestly don't see it coming. The world has invested 10 years into iOS and Android and there is no real reason to support another OS.

You miscalculated one thing, the largest hp market on earth is China. Once its used ny 500mil ppl an ecosystem develops around it. Why do you think US fears Huawei? This is a company who didnt even buckle under sanctions, ZTE buckled in a week.
hp? Is that Singaporean for smartphone?

And yes, China is a huge market but the West is a bigger market in term of wealth, and they buy the high end smartphone. Average Chinese cannot afford $1000 phone, much less one every 2-4 years.

China is extremely competitive at the low end $100-300 but if they don't make nice with the West, they will be obliterated from the high end.

You seems do not understand the difference between China and Japan/Korea. Your analysis apply to Japan and Korea, but not to China.

The largest IT companies in the world. Sort by revenue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_Internet_companies
View attachment 589630

A duck and a chicken are different kinds of birds.
What is your point?
 
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Bro
You are completely misunderstanding that situation here.

Android is already forked in China. All Chinese phones in China use a free Android version that has no connections to Google.
This is fine as the licence allows you to do it. The upshot is that for app developers, programming for Chinese android phones is exactly the same as programming for Official Google Android phones. Companies have 10 years of experience developing for Android.


Now Harmony OS is a COMPLETELY different OS. You need to start from scratch and spend $$$ to develop for it. No Android apps will be compatible and there is no infrastructure for it. You have to convince companies that have spent $$$ in the past 10 years to learn and develop for Android to throw that money away, spend even more money and learn and develop for Harmony OS, on the off chance that it will be popular.

I would bet that almost a billion people in China use a Chinese phone running Android, while 0 people in China are using Harmony OS.

I hope you understand the situation a little better now.
They are two different OS, Harmony isn't just a fork of Android.
You do not know what's going on. You really need to understand what's Harmony OS, and how it will be compatible with Android. I am programmer, you seems not.
 
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yeah, wishful thinking and extremely unrealistic.

I stopped reading once the guy mentioned that Huawei will make its own amazing OS and blah blah blah.

Apple is one of the biggest companies on the planet, Mac OS is still only 15% of the market.

Blackberry, Nokia, Palm (LG), and Windows have all spent billions collectively to get into mobile OS and they all failed.

Point is, Huawei can make the worlds best OS, but the world is not interested. Apple and Android will continue to dominate until a new seismic shift in the market happens, like how the smart phone was a seismic shift.

This is a feelgood story and not based on reality at all.

Because you dont understand the point that article trying to say.

Android rules and no other OS can compete because of the established ecosystem and community in the "Free Market".
But when the free market distorted, say US/China government favour one of other competing OS and give some concession the situation could be different and would pose threat to android domination.

US government indeed wont do that, but China government could do that, especially when she want to protect her technology and champion such as Huawei. What China will do just ban Android and favour Harmony in China market then all smartphone vendor who want to sell in China market will install OS Harmony then Harmony will rule; once rule in China most of software developer will be joining the wagon to support Harmony due to market till the ecosystem fully established; starting from that Harmony could expand its market outside China step by step and will be competing with Android in international market.

Huawei could find software partner to make bridging software that enable Google apps to run on Harmony, hence people who love WA, FB, Youtube still can enjoy those application on Harmony; thats why Huawei say Harmony is continuation of Android.
 
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yeah, wishful thinking and extremely unrealistic.

I stopped reading once the guy mentioned that Huawei will make its own amazing OS and blah blah blah.

Apple is one of the biggest companies on the planet, Mac OS is still only 15% of the market.

Blackberry, Nokia, Palm (LG), and Windows have all spent billions collectively to get into mobile OS and they all failed.

Point is, Huawei can make the worlds best OS, but the world is not interested. Apple and Android will continue to dominate until a new seismic shift in the market happens, like how the smart phone was a seismic shift.

This is a feelgood story and not based on reality at all.

You are not understanding the politics behind OS development. Do you really think MAC OS failed to dominate? The real answer is that USA companies are controlled by the deep state who dictate terms and even contain their growth in other domains. In case of MC OS, Apple deliberately links OS to MAC PC hardware and then overcharges MAC PC due to which very few people buy MAC computers. Windows, on the other hand, is focused on development of OS which is decoupled from hardware. These models are adopted to ensure that USA companies dominate in all sectors of computers and don;t leave any space for external competitor.

About Android, android is open source and hence anyone can use Android. The google apps can be replaced with another set of apps and Android used by others. Even in case of PCs, there is an open source option called Linux. All of this can be exploited by others if they want. As of now, USA deep state is ensuring that only American softwares and hardwares are dominant so that USA can have control over PC markets and hence using various strategy to contain other softwares. But if other country is determined, then USA softwares and hardwares can be replaced.
 
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Ah, I see what you are saying.

I still disagree.
Huawei is huge but its still no Microsoft or even Blackberry or Nokia in their prime (pre 2007). I understand your hope for a third OS but I honestly don't see it coming. The world has invested 10 years into iOS and Android and there is no real reason to support another OS.
Right...but this threat of being cutoff sets a precedent. Not only would it force Huawei to come up with another solution...other major players like Xiaomi and the likes would also consider possibly joining hands with Huawei to develop an alternative(whether entirely new or a fork)...at least behind the scenes...if they are smart.
No company in their right mind would want to be cut off at a moment's notice and face the massive losses that Huawei will face.

...and I agree that ppl like their comfort zone and they have well settled in with android and ios...and wouldn't want to switch. This is why other competitors like Palm and Microsoft struggled. The struggle has been with the adoption of the OS. In case of Huawei...not only can they throw billions(just like those other companies) but they will also have adoption of it at the domestic level. This will keep them going...long enough for this third OS to mature into its own and be similar enough in features and services to iOS and Android...and slowly ppl wouldn't mind switching over.

I myself used to have iPhones(since the first one) one after another. Android initially used to suck as an OS compared to iOS...but overtime it became comparable in performance. Apple which used to have some of the best features(hardware and software) over time either started to fall behind...or other competitors closed the gap...
...so much so that eventually I switched to a Samsung Galaxy S10. Personally I care for more bang for the buck and I'm not a fanboy who sticks with this brand or that brand for prestige or brand loyalty or whatever.
Once I switched from iOS to android...I barely noticed the difference. Yes of course there are cosmetic differences and GUI differences...but in terms of features, I can get everything done with my S10 that I could do with my previous iPhone. IF let's say a Huawei phone using Harmony OS or LineageOS for example...offered that kind of similarity(in terms of functionality) I(as a consumer) wouldn't really care...I would switch all the same if it offered more bang for the buck.

^this IMO is how that third OS would make inroads to outside non Chinese markets...from a consumer's perspective.

Now as for developers...having to remake apps for something as new as Harmony OS...that I can see as being a hurdle. However if it was anything like LineageOS...I don't think there would be much of a problem...it would just need time to mature.
 
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Right...but this threat of being cutoff sets a precedent. Not only would it force Huawei to come up with another solution...other major players like Xiaomi and the likes would also consider possibly joining hands with Huawei to develop an alternative(whether entirely new or a fork)...at least behind the scenes...if they are smart.
No company in their right mind would want to be cut off at a moment's notice and face the massive losses that Huawei will face.

...and I agree that ppl like their comfort zone and they have well settled in with android and ios...and wouldn't want to switch. This is why other competitors like Palm and Microsoft struggled. The struggle has been with the adoption of the OS. In case of Huawei...not only can they throw billions(just like those other companies) but they will also have adoption of it at the domestic level. This will keep them going...long enough for this third OS to mature into its own and be similar enough in features and services to iOS and Android...and slowly ppl wouldn't mind switching over.

I myself used to have iPhones(since the first one) one after another. Android initially used to suck as an OS compared to iOS...but overtime it became comparable in performance. Apple which used to have some of the best features(hardware and software) over time either started to fall behind...or other competitors closed the gap...
...so much so that eventually I switched to a Samsung Galaxy S10. Personally I care for more bang for the buck and I'm not a fanboy who sticks with this brand or that brand for prestige or brand loyalty or whatever.
Once I switched from iOS to android...I barely noticed the difference. Yes of course there are cosmetic differences and GUI differences...but in terms of features, I can get everything done with my S10 that I could do with my previous iPhone. IF let's say a Huawei phone using Harmony OS or LineageOS for example...offered that kind of similarity(in terms of functionality) I(as a consumer) wouldn't really care...I would switch all the same if it offered more bang for the buck.

^this IMO is how that third OS would make inroads to outside non Chinese markets...from a consumer's perspective.

Now as for developers...having to remake apps for something as new as Harmony OS...that I can see as being a hurdle. However if it was anything like LineageOS...I don't think there would be much of a problem...it would just need time to mature.


The issue is that Huawei has a problem, the consumers do not.
Huawei should try to make their own OS, just like Samsung did with Taizen.
In the end, it only solves a problem that the consumers do not have.

Best of luck to Huawei, but there is almost a zero percent chance their OS will do anything outside of China. Just like Samsung's Taizen does very little outside of running a smart watch.

You are not understanding the politics behind OS development. Do you really think MAC OS failed to dominate? The real answer is that USA companies are controlled by the deep state who dictate terms and even contain their growth in other domains. In case of MC OS, Apple deliberately links OS to MAC PC hardware and then overcharges MAC PC due to which very few people buy MAC computers. Windows, on the other hand, is focused on development of OS which is decoupled from hardware. These models are adopted to ensure that USA companies dominate in all sectors of computers and don;t leave any space for external competitor.

About Android, android is open source and hence anyone can use Android. The google apps can be replaced with another set of apps and Android used by others. Even in case of PCs, there is an open source option called Linux. All of this can be exploited by others if they want. As of now, USA deep state is ensuring that only American softwares and hardwares are dominant so that USA can have control over PC markets and hence using various strategy to contain other softwares. But if other country is determined, then USA softwares and hardwares can be replaced.
sigh.... if you say so....

Because you dont understand the point that article trying to say.

Android rules and no other OS can compete because of the established ecosystem and community in the "Free Market".
But when the free market distorted, say US/China government favour one of other competing OS and give some concession the situation could be different and would pose threat to android domination.

US government indeed wont do that, but China government could do that, especially when she want to protect her technology and champion such as Huawei. What China will do just ban Android and favour Harmony in China market then all smartphone vendor who want to sell in China market will install OS Harmony then Harmony will rule; once rule in China most of software developer will be joining the wagon to support Harmony due to market till the ecosystem fully established; starting from that Harmony could expand its market outside China step by step and will be competing with Android in international market.

Huawei could find software partner to make bridging software that enable Google apps to run on Harmony, hence people who love WA, FB, Youtube still can enjoy those application on Harmony; thats why Huawei say Harmony is continuation of Android.
IF only life was that easy.

What you are not understanding is that Changing OS is not as simple as changing clothes.

With OS you have companies that have spent millions of dollars and a decade of investment into Android and iOS. Even China.

Chinese companies have spent millions to make apps that work on Android in China. Now you want them to spend millions of dollars to learn and develop apps for Harmony. What do they get out of this? Jingoistic nationalism and nothing else.

If Harmony OS has any chance, Huawei itself will have to fund apps to the tune of billions of dollars and convince hundreds of millions (if not a billion people) to give up their android phones and their android apps. What benefits will the Chinese people get? Jingoistic nationalism.

Anyways, best of luck. Microsoft, Blackberry, Nokia, Samsung and LG have all failed at this.

You do not know what's going on. You really need to understand what's Harmony OS, and how it will be compatible with Android. I am programmer, you seems not.
This is the oddest flex up ok.....

https://commonsware.com/blog/2019/08/10/harmony-compatibility.html
"One way that it could be “easy” is if they take the approach that BlackBerry did with their early Android efforts. Before BlackBerry retired BlackBerry OS and moved to Android, they had an Android runtime for BlackBerry OS. Developers could use some tools to convert an Android APK into a different file (BAR), and a BAR could be distributed to a BlackBerry OS device. This approach failed for BlackBerry for several reasons, none of which would preclude Huawei from trying and perhaps succeeding. It might still require a fair amount of work to port an Android app to be a native Harmony OS app, though, if this is Huawei’s approach."


Also, how do you know I am not a programmer?
 
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The issue is that Huawei has a problem, the consumers do not.
Huawei should try to make their own OS, just like Samsung did with Taizen.
In the end, it only solves a problem that the consumers do not have.

Best of luck to Huawei, but there is almost a zero percent chance their OS will do anything outside of China. Just like Samsung's Taizen does very little outside of running a smart watch.


sigh.... if you say so....
Right it is solving a problem that the consumers do not have...non Chinese consumers that is

The Chinese consumers however DO have a problem. Their government generally bans Google's services...even outside the realm of smartphones. If the Chinese companies together(or even Huawei alone) really buckle down and create something to solve that problem...
...they have the money and the means to come up with a robust os to solve it at the consumer level...as in providing a software that is similar enough in experience and comparable in functionality...so that an average consumer can do with a third OS phone that they can do with the other two.

At the developer level they can try with Harmony to see how it goes...if it doesn't go anywhere...they can go at it again with an OS built atop android and remove that hurdle at the developer level.

Bcuz of this ability to be sustained by a market as big as China...and having deep pockets...in addition to US pressure...I'm still of the opinion that they will eventually come up with a third OS.
 
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Right it is solving a problem that the consumers do not have...non Chinese consumers that is

The Chinese consumers however DO have a problem. Their government generally bans Google's services...even outside the realm of smartphones. If the Chinese companies together(or even Huawei alone) really buckle down and create something to solve that problem...
...they have the money and the means to come up with a robust os to solve it at the consumer level. At the developer level they can try with Harmony to see how it goes...if it doesn't go anywhere...they can go at it again with an OS built atop android and remove that hurdle at the developer level.

Bcuz of this ability to be sustained by a market as big as China...and having deep pockets...in addition to US pressure...I'm still of the opinion that they will eventually come up with a third OS.
Again bro, you are misunderstanding.

Chinese consumers also do not have a problem.
It is true that they don't get access to Google services, but they do have access to Chinese appstores made by the mobile companies.

So any app they need is readily available to them.
So again, no consumer on Earth has a problem, only Huawei.
 
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The issue is that Huawei has a problem, the consumers do not.
Huawei should try to make their own OS, just like Samsung did with Taizen.
In the end, it only solves a problem that the consumers do not have.

Best of luck to Huawei, but there is almost a zero percent chance their OS will do anything outside of China. Just like Samsung's Taizen does very little outside of running a smart watch.

The problems of consumers can be invented by accusing Google of fraud and publishing a few articles on how google steals your information and sells to CIA & NSA. What is needed most is that other country's government must have a problem with USA and then the problem will be passed on to the people.

SKorea is a puppet state. USA instructed Samsung to not develop Taizen. Google and Samsung signed a treaty that Samsung will not sell Taizen in return for Google giving them some breathing room in patents of Motorolla and few other incentives. Otherwise, taizen would have been a big threat to Android by now. It was only scuttled due to political reasons, not due to lack of consumer demand
 
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Ah, I see what you are saying.

I still disagree.
Huawei is huge but its still no Microsoft or even Blackberry or Nokia in their prime (pre 2007). I understand your hope for a third OS but I honestly don't see it coming. The world has invested 10 years into iOS and Android and there is no real reason to support another OS.


hp? Is that Singaporean for smartphone?

And yes, China is a huge market but the West is a bigger market in term of wealth, and they buy the high end smartphone. Average Chinese cannot afford $1000 phone, much less one every 2-4 years.

China is extremely competitive at the low end $100-300 but if they don't make nice with the West, they will be obliterated from the high end.



A duck and a chicken are different kinds of birds.
What is your point?
You dont need to conquer nor overtake the West. You just need to prosper and survive, why do you always ned to look at this as a zero sum game? Choice is always good. I guess you dont know the Chinese market well, lower end phones are for India and gang, do some research and you will know.

Hp is handphone, cellphone is used in US not the rest of the world.
 
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yeah, wishful thinking and extremely unrealistic.

I stopped reading once the guy mentioned that Huawei will make its own amazing OS and blah blah blah.

Apple is one of the biggest companies on the planet, Mac OS is still only 15% of the market.

Blackberry, Nokia, Palm (LG), and Windows have all spent billions collectively to get into mobile OS and they all failed.

Point is, Huawei can make the worlds best OS, but the world is not interested. Apple and Android will continue to dominate until a new seismic shift in the market happens, like how the smart phone was a seismic shift.

This is a feelgood story and not based on reality at all.

I heard the same when China was never supposed to make it as a top economy of the world. They all laughed at China.

Huawei is going to make its own OS and it will be MASSIVE. Even if it only caters to domestic needs initially. Eventually the OS is going to reach other shores. I don’t underestimate Huawei for one moment. This company rivals and beats Cisco.

Chinese don’t have a defeatist mindset. They work hard and believe in their abilities.

As for Apple, you should ask them about their sales and why they are down.
 
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You dont need to conquer nor overtake the West. You just need to prosper and survive, why do you always ned to look at this as a zero sum game? Choice is always good. I guess you dont know the Chinese market well, lower end phones are for India and gang, do some research and you will know.

Hp is handphone, cellphone is used in US not the rest of the world.

Where did I say it was zero sum? Did you even read what I wrote?

I did lots of research and I sorry to break it to you but China is not as rich as you think it is.

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/wages

Wages in China increased to 82461 CNY/Year in 2018 from 74318 CNY/Year in 2017.



That is about 1100 USD a year. Average Chinese is not spending 10% of their yearly income on a smartphone. So again, Huawei will be find selling low to mid tear phones in China.

I heard the same when China was never supposed to make it as a top economy of the world. They all laughed at China.

Huawei is going to make its own OS and it will be MASSIVE. Even if it only caters to domestic needs. Eventually the OS is going to reach other shores. I don’t underestimate Huawei for one moment. This company rivals and beats Cisco.

Chinese don’t have a defeatist mindset. They work hard and believe in their abilities.

As for Apple, you should ask them about their sales and why they are down.
... if you say so....
 
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Where did I say it was zero sum? Did you even read what I wrote?

I did lots of research and I sorry to break it to you but China is not as rich as you think it is.

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/wages

Wages in China increased to 82461 CNY/Year in 2018 from 74318 CNY/Year in 2017.



That is about 1100 USD a year. Average Chinese is not spending 10% of their yearly income on a smartphone. So again, Huawei will be find selling low to mid tear phones in China.


... if you say so....

You will see. I live in a Western country where the consumer is very aware. People don’t want to spend over a thousand euro’s for a phone that has the same features year after year. Chinese top flagships offer everything an Apple and Samsung offers and much more at reasonable price range.

The Americans can play their cheap games. It will hurt them in the long run. It has already hurt them an arm and a leg. Like I said, look at Apple’s sales figures.
 
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You will see. I live in a Western country where the consumer is very aware. People don’t want to spend over a thousand euro’s for a phone that has the same features year after year. Chinese top flagships offer everything an Apple and Samsung offers and much more at reasonable price range.

The Americans can play their cheap games. It will hurt them in the long run. It has already hurt them an arm and a leg. Like I said, look at Apple’s sales figures.
I am not sure what to say to you. You are factually wrong but your enthusiasm great.
Keep on keeping on my brother:cheers:
 
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I am not sure what to say to you. You are factually wrong but your enthusiasm great.
Keep on keeping on my brother:cheers:

I am not wrong. I work in the IT industry. I have seen Huawei's rise from close. This is a company the Western bloc genuinely fears. Huawei has amazing tech and philosophy. Huawei is a behemoth in its own right. People who actually work as professionals in the tech industry understand what Huawei means.
 
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