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How Will India's Attempted Hinduization Impact Pakistan and the World?

No. I live in London (UK). The most ethnically diverse and cosmopolitan city in the world..... I cannot speak for Hinduism or indian culture, but Islam is the massive factor and overriding force in Pakistani culture. The essence of Pakistan is Islam. Pakistanis and indians have reached a stage were the very little bit of commonality and similarity there may have been decades ago has all but disappeared now. Dead and buried.There is no connection left.....QUOTE]

London is an ethnically diverse city but far from being the most cosmopolitan. Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis there all tend to live in their own communities, and retain much of the baggage from the motherland. A truly cosmopolitan city would be like New York- very little ghettoization and the second generation is totally integrated.

The lost connection between India and Pakistan is forced social engineering; mostly by Pakistanis. The Indians discarded Urdu as a principal language and it was picked up by Pakistanis. Where was Urdu spoken in Pakistan before Partition? An entirely new identity was sought to be imposed upon Pakistanis, including discouraging traditional celebrations like Diwali, Holi and Lohri. These are similarities that have been gradually dismantled by the Pakistani state in an attempt to carve a new identity. So ashamed were they of their South Asian identity that they borrowed from everywhere - Afghan and Turkic heroes, Kemalist Nationalism and Wahabbi Islam from Saudi Arabia. Now apparently that is our culture. Having disowned our own past, we now conveniently ignore that Sufi and Barelvi Islam have flourished in India as well for as long, with its own unique identity, which is uniquely South Asian.

What is this unique Islamic identity you talk of, which you or I do not share with the 350 million-odd Muslims in India and Bangladesh?

No. I live in London (UK). The most ethnically diverse and cosmopolitan city in the world. Where millions of Pakistanis AND indians live. What I say is based on over 30 years of personal observation and experience. I have seen 1000s of Pakistanis and indians and have come to my conclusions based on that. A ground reality. I have not based my opinions and conclusions on media propaganda or what is said or written on the internet. Or even what my older relatives say. indians from india say Pakistanis are the same race as them but UK born indians don't because they are aware of the true reality. I cannot speak for Hinduism or indian culture, but Islam is the massive factor and overriding force in Pakistani culture. The essence of Pakistan is Islam. Pakistanis and indians have reached a stage were the very little bit of commonality and similarity there may have been decades ago has all but disappeared now. Dead and buried.There is no connection left.

I'm far from unique. Just a fairly well educated, everyday, decent and independent Pakistani male born and bred in London. It's really patronising when indians try to tell us what our heritage is. indians from india try to claim us Pakistanis as their own people. We don't even look like them. We are not like you or the same race as you. And never will be.

London is an ethnically diverse city but far from being the most cosmopolitan. Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis there all tend to live in their own communities, and retain much of the baggage from the motherland. A truly cosmopolitan city would be like New York- very little ghettoization and the second generation is totally integrated.

The lost connection between India and Pakistan is forced social engineering; mostly by Pakistanis. The Indians discarded Urdu as a principal language and it was picked up by Pakistanis. Where was Urdu spoken in Pakistan before Partition? An entirely new identity was sought to be imposed upon Pakistanis, including discouraging traditional celebrations like Diwali, Holi and Lohri. These are similarities that have been gradually dismantled by the Pakistani state in an attempt to carve a new identity. So ashamed were they of their South Asian identity that they borrowed from everywhere - Afghan and Turkic heroes, Kemalist Nationalism and Wahabbi Islam from Saudi Arabia. Now apparently that is our culture. Having disowned our own past, we now conveniently ignore that Sufi and Barelvi Islam have flourished in India as well for as long, with its own unique identity, which is uniquely South Asian.

What is this unique Islamic identity you talk of, which you or I do not share with the 350 million-odd Muslims in India and Bangladesh?
 
Have been to Pakistan over 20 times in my life. Have worked and lived in parts of London with high indian populations. That's why I know Pakistanis are very different to indians. In fact it's extremely difficult to find any similarities between Pakistanis and indians.

Good for you then. I am not here to convince or convert anyone.

All I will say is I have 1/2 a dozen friends from Pakistan including one from Pakistan's Kashmir. We have frequent potlucks and play days for the kids. The funny thing was it took me 1 year before I realized one of the Muslim family was from Pakistan and not India.

yes since any meat is forbiden in hinduism :enjoy:

Hinduism 101: Hinduism does not forbid anything
 
London is an ethnically diverse city but far from being the most cosmopolitan. Indians, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis there all tend to live in their own communities, and retain much of the baggage from the motherland. A truly cosmopolitan city would be like New York- very little ghettoization and the second generation is totally integrated.

The lost connection between India and Pakistan is forced social engineering; mostly by Pakistanis. The Indians discarded Urdu as a principal language and it was picked up by Pakistanis. Where was Urdu spoken in Pakistan before Partition? An entirely new identity was sought to be imposed upon Pakistanis, including discouraging traditional celebrations like Diwali, Holi and Lohri. These are similarities that have been gradually dismantled by the Pakistani state in an attempt to carve a new identity. So ashamed were they of their South Asian identity that they borrowed from everywhere - Afghan and Turkic heroes, Kemalist Nationalism and Wahabbi Islam from Saudi Arabia. Now apparently that is our culture. Having disowned our own past, we now conveniently ignore that Sufi and Barelvi Islam have flourished in India as well for as long, with its own unique identity, which is uniquely South Asian.

What is this unique Islamic identity you talk of, which you or I do not share with the 350 million-odd Muslims in India and Bangladesh?

All across US when it comes South Asians, there is only one identify called "Desi". It does not matter you are from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or Nepal. It does not matter if you are Muslim, Sikh or Hindu. You are just identified and identify yourself as "Desi".
 
Good for you then. I am not here to convince or convert anyone.

All I will say is I have 1/2 a dozen friends from Pakistan including one from Pakistan's Kashmir. We have frequent potlucks and play days for the kids. The funny thing was it took me 1 year before I realized one of the Muslim family was from Pakistan and not India.



Hinduism 101: Hinduism does not forbid anything

You really know how to spoil a good thing.

I was planning to upload some of the meat and fish recipes from my cookbook.

OK...Fine with me have a nice day, i am out of here.

Damn.

We need to do something about the bureaucracy right here on PakDef.

Hunting licenses take far too long to issue. All I get end of the day is no trophy for the wall, just "Fine with me have a nice day, i am out of here".
 
You really know how to spoil a good thing.

I was planning to upload some of the meat and fish recipes from my cookbook.

QUOTE]

..

You could still do. My response was to the usage of the word "forbid".
My limited point was in Hinduism
Atheism : Checked
Monotheism : Checked
Agnosticism : Checked
Dualism : Checked
Vegetarianism : Checked
non-vegetarianism : Checked
Bachelorhood : Checked
Familyhood : Checked
Polygamy : Checked
Polyandry : Checked
Single spouse : Checked
Hetrosexual : Checked
Transgender : Checked
Natural childbirth : Checked
Test Tube Baby : Checked
Dressed : Checked
Naked : Checked
Indulgence : Checked
Non-Indulgence : Checked
Good : Checked
Evil : Checked

Discipline : Checked
Simple : Checked
Natural : Checked
Unnatural (GMO) : Checked
Evolution : Checked
Love Marriage : Checked
Arranged Marriage : Checked
Peace : Checked
War : Checked
etc. etc.
I think you got the point that I was trying to make.
...
 
Haq's Musings: Rise of Sangh Parivar: Modi Accelerating Total Hinduization of India?

There have been serious questions raised about India's secularism since its independence in 1947. Such questions have gained new urgency with the rapid rise of Hindu Nationalists and the election of BJP leader Narendra Modi in 2014.



Serious doubts about India's claim of secularism were articulated well by Indian journalist Kapil Komireddy in an Op Ed piece he wrote for the UK's Guardian newspaper a few years ago. Here's an excerpt of it:

"Indian Muslims in particular have rarely known a life uninterrupted by communal conflict or unimpaired by poverty and prejudice. Their grievances are legion, and the list of atrocities committed against them by the Indian state is long. In 2002 at least 1,000 Muslims were slaughtered by Hindu mobs in the western state of Gujarat in what was the second state-sponsored pogrom in India (Sikhs were the object of the first, in 1984). Gujarat's chief minister, Narendra Modi, explained away the riots by quoting Newton's third law. "Every action," he said on television, "has an equal opposite reaction." The "action" that invited the reaction of the mobs was the torching of a Gujarat-bound train in which 59 Hindus pilgrims, most of them saffron-clad bigots who were returning home from a trip to the site of the Babri Mosque that they had helped demolish a decade earlier, perished. The "equal and opposite reaction" was the slaughter of 1,000 innocent Muslims for the alleged crime of their coreligionists."

Komireddy goes on to describe how India's "liberal" elite rationalize sectarianism in "secular" India:

"The novelist Shashi Tharoor tried to burnish this certifiably sectarian phenomenon with a facile analogy: Indian Muslims, he wrote, accept Hindu rituals at state ceremonies in the same spirit as teetotallers accept champagne in western celebrations. This self-affirming explanation is characteristic of someone who belongs to the majority community. Muslims I interviewed took a different view, but understandably, they were unwilling to protest for the fear of being labelled as "angry Muslims" in a country famous for its tolerant Hindus."

The Sangh Parivar's project to Hinduize India has accelerated with the landslide victory of BJP leader Narendra Modi and his inauguration as Prime Minister of India in 2014. Some of the manifestations of this phenomenon as reported by the Washington Postare as as follows:

1.The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (or the World Hindu Council) launched a program called “Gharwapsi” (or Homecoming) to urge India’s Muslims and Christians to convert to Hinduism, which they said was the religion of their ancestors. It has resulted in many reported instances of forced mass conversions of Christians and Muslims to Hinduism.

2. Beef sales have been banned in several Indian states. The most egregious of such laws is the Maharashtra state law that criminalizes possession or consumption of beef.

3. Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj has said the Hindu scripture Bhagwad Gita must be declared a “national scripture.” Another BJP politician, Manohar Lal Khattar, the chief minister of the northern Haryana state has said Bhagwad Gita is considered more important than India’s secular Constitution.

4. Poor school children are being denied eggs, a cheap protein needed by growing youngsters, in their school lunches by India's vegetarian Hindu elite, according an NPR report.

The above changes are just the tip of a much larger iceberg of Hindu transformation of India with major appointments of Hindu ideologues by ruling party to key positions in education and media posts at the center and the provinces.

It's not just in India that the Hindu Nationalists are gaining strength. Their programs receive significant funding and support from non-resident Indians (NRIs). A report entitled "Hindu Nationalism in the United States: A Report on Non-Profit Groups" makes the following assertions regarding the strength and nature of the Hindu nationalist movement in the United States:

a. Over the last three decades, a movement toward Hinduizing India--advancing the status of Hindus toward political and social primacy in India-- has continued to gain ground in South Asia and diasporic communities. The Sangh Parivar (the Sangh "family"), the network of groups at the forefront of this Hindu nationalist movement, has an estimated membership numbering in the millions, making the Sangh one of the largest voluntary associations in India. The major organizations in the Sangh include the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bajrang Dal, and Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

b. Hindu nationalism has intensified and multiplied forms of discrimination, exclusion, and gendered and sexualized violence against Muslims, Christians, other minorities, and those who oppose Sangh violations, as documented by Indian citizens and international tribunals, fact-finding groups, international human rights organizations, and U.S. governmental bodies.

c. India-based Sangh affiliates receive social and financial support from its U.S.-based wings, the latter of which exist largely as tax-exempt non-profit organizations in the United States: Hindu Swayamsevak Sangh (HSS), Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America (VHPA), Sewa International USA, Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation-USA. The Overseas Friends of the Bharatiya Janata Party - USA (OFBJP) is active as well, though it is not a tax-exempt group.

Acceleration of "secular" India's total Hindu-ization under Prime Minister Modi represents a sea change for South Asia region and the world. It could prove to be verydestabilizing for India, a much larger and far more diverse country than its neighboring Islamic Pakistan. Such instability could derail India's economic rise unless its forced Hindu-ization is checked by the country's leadership with external pressure from India's friends. And its effects will be strongly felt far outside the borders of India. It is already causing serious issues between India and Pakistan that could lead a devastating war in South Asia with severe consequences for the entire world.

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India is World's Biggest Oligarchy
Gujarat Riot Victims Hindu Nationalists Admire HitlerIndia Has World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates
Pakistan Needs More Gujaratis?
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Haq's Musings: Rise of Sangh Parivar: Modi Accelerating Total Hinduization of India?

its India's problem. as long as they keep it within India.
 
Their grievances are legion, and the list of atrocities committed against them by the Indian state is long. In 2002 at least 1,000 Muslims were slaughtered by Hindu mobs in
And similar numbers are crushed to death at the holiest places of Islam. Some websites are claiming it to be 2000+..Though speculations cannot be tamed.
Refrain from using the information which you cannot justify or stop posting selective information thus creating more confusion.
 
I think the difference here is local vs invader...Tipu Sultan was a local..Mehmood Ghanavi was an invader and only came to loot and plunder..

You are offering Sangh Parivar's fake history that has been debunked by many enlightened Indian Hindus themselves.

Supreme Court judge Markandey Katju on Sunday attributed simmering Hindu-Muslim tensions to a deliberate rewriting of history to project Muslim rulers as intolerant and bigoted, whereas ample evidence existed to show the reverse was true.

The judge also said that Indians were held together by a common Sanskrit-Urdu culture which guaranteed that India would always remain secular.

Justice Katju said the myth-making against Muslim rulers, which was a post-1857 British project, had been internalised in India over the years. Thus, Mahmud Ghazni's destruction of the Somnath temple was known but not the fact that Tipu Sultan gave an annual grant to 156 Hindu temples. The judge, who delivered the valedictory address at a conference held to mark the silver jubilee of the Institute of Objective Studies, buttressed his arguments with examples quoted from D.N. Pande's History in the Service of Imperialism.

Dr. Pande, who summarised his conclusions in a lecture to members of the Rajya Sabha in 1977, had said: “Thus under a definite policy the Indian history textbooks were so falsified and distorted as to give an impression that the medieval period of Indian history was full of atrocities committed by Muslim rulers on their Hindu subjects and the Hindus had to suffer terrible indignities under Islamic rule.”

Muslim rulers deliberately projected as intolerant: Katju - The Hindu
 
Bharat is the only country of the world where religious extremism is heavily supported by the public. In no other country religion based political parties are voted by majority of people.
 
Bharat is the only country of the world where religious extremism is heavily supported by the public. In no other country religion based political parties are voted by majority of people.

  • Pakistan Muslim League (N) ( presently in power)
  • Pakistan Muslim League (Q) (in power during Musharaff era.
  • Jamaat-e-Islami. (frequently a part of one or the other coalition.)
  • Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (F) (frequently a part of one or the other coalition.)
And you were saying?
 
All Khans have Hindu wives and one got Hindu mum, thats only people I know in India lol so going by that logic Hinduism has been dominant in India all along, only now the new pm is probably making that clear to the world.
 
Damn.

We need to do something about the bureaucracy right here on PakDef.

Hunting licenses take far too long to issue. All I get end of the day is no trophy for the wall, just "Fine with me have a nice day, i am out of here".
It's not the hunting licences, it's lack of ammo and the will to take the kill shot.
 
  • Pakistan Muslim League (N) ( presently in power)
  • Pakistan Muslim League (Q) (in power during Musharaff era.
  • Jamaat-e-Islami. (frequently a part of one or the other coalition.)
  • Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam (F) (frequently a part of one or the other coalition.)
And you were saying?

28656968.jpg
 

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