How to stop These UAV's From Attacking???

[Ahassan]

well my simple Question is How to stop These (US)UAV's From Attacking???

In case Pakistan army has permission from GOV to Destroy These UAV's
But we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems!!! which can destroy These Birds....!!!
Moreover we cannot rely on Expensive PAF flights and as far as paf air defence is concern we only have crotale missile systems which are only used to protect airbases in Pakistan!!!

we cannot destroy these Uav's From Anti Aircraft Guns as they are not capable!!!

I may be wrong in this regard plz do correct me!!!

We need to get hold of modern Missile Defence systems....such as

Tor missile system
(ADATS)
Wiesel 2
Or we can Make Stinger Sites on top of the Mountains

Well in my point of View best Option Is to Procure TOR-M1 Or ADATS

 

[Ahassan]

well my simple Question is How to stop These (US)UAV's From Attacking???

In case Pakistan army has permission from GOV to Destroy These UAV's
But we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems!!! which can destroy These Birds....!!!
Moreover we cannot rely on Expensive PAF flights and as far as paf air defence is concern we only have crotale missile systems which are only used to protect airbases in Pakistan!!!

we cannot destroy these Uav's From Anti Aircraft Guns as they are not capable!!!

I may be wrong in this regard plz do correct me!!!

We need to get hold of modern Missile Defence systems....such as

Tor missile system
(ADATS)
Wiesel 2
Or we can Make Stinger Sites on top of the Mountains

Well in my point of View best Option Is to Procure TOR-M1 Or ADATS

First Picture is ADATS and the second one Is of TOR-M1.

 

[Neo]

UAV's are low flying objects capable of avoiding ground radar but visible to Awacs.

PAF should look into enhancing its ECM and EMP capabilities with good jammers. UAV is remote controlled by satellitles, jam the signal and it will crash.

 

[Ahassan]

UAV's are low flying objects capable of avoiding ground radar but visible to Awacs.

PAF should look into enhancing its ECM and EMP capabilities with good jammers. UAV is remote controlled by satellitles, jam the signal and it will crash.

bro we have Capability to detect low flying Objects!!!

 

[Neo]

I know we do but we lack a good ECM platform.

 

[Ahassan]

wat about Thunders do they have These......

 

[Neo]

No, but Erieye could do the job.
I haven't seen an ECM pod in JF-17 yet.

 

[maqsad]

I think in mountainous terrain helicopters are very hard to spot even if you have a state of the art AWACS flying 24/7. So the solution is to go to every single mountain and valley in Kashmir, FATA etc and dig some bunkers in strategic locations. These bunkers would not be that large and would also have the ability to be run unmanned for many days at a time. On top of each bunker will be placed a few low range sonar, radar and ultrasound sensors and transmitters. Every single valley or nook would be within range of at least 3 of these bunkers which would constantly be monitoring the hilly areas for sound, radiation and visual cues. They will be linked to a central processing area in another location which deals with input coming in from all bunkers and triangulating suspicious readings. This will allow the listening stations to detect even "under the radar" incursions within seconds of coming in range. The bunkers would also be manned by a few SAMs which can be launched by remote control or by soldiers in the bunkers upon order.

In fact I think this low cost system could also look forward across the border to areas Pakistan does not even control and detect incoming choppers flying low in valleys to avoid radar from 2 or 3 miles away. And these concrete bunkers can be built right now at very low cost using entirely local technology and expertise. Also the advantage of these bunkers are that they are widely spread out and low cost as opposed to a flying AWACS which can easily be shot down.

The problem with most pakistanis is they think like shopaholics and want to buy buy buy and spend spend spend instead of taking pride in indigenously developed technology and solutions. This attitude needs to change.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Against any drones or aircrafts...........first is detection, then identification and tracking and lastly engaging.....

In 1980s, Pakistan had purchased 45 low-level radars from Siemens, Germany and they are very capable radars. Some of them can be deployed at western border.

Other than that Pakistan do have a system of mobile observors who report any voilation or intrusion into Pak airspace. Such teams can be sent there to report intrusions.

Additionally, Baloon-mounted radars can serve as fixed AEW in the air. I think local engineers should be capable of developing this. As a fighter radars sees through the nose cone, I think a radar can operate from inside a baloon hoisted to desired altitude. I read somewhere that Pakistan was already considering the acquisition of such radars.

We have very capable 35mm air defence guns of Oerlikon Contraves. This 35mm twin-barrel gun has more ceiling than 23mm calibre guns and must be effective upto more than 10,000 feet. The 23mm shilka guns were effective till 6000 feet altitude.

I dont think that those propeller-driven drones fly much higher. 35mm guns and MANPADS should be enough, although the use of PAF is even better.


Pakistani radars must be tracking those UAVs and by now Pakistan MUST know their operational doctrine and MUST know that at which altitude Predators and other drone do their reconnaissance and then at which altitude they launch their Hellfire missiles or other ordinance.

Pakistan MUST know till now that what are the different attack profiles of Predator......does it come in a dive or it remains straight? if yes it dives then at which angle??.......how does it pull off from dive?....does it pull off straight up?.....or it pulls to right or left while climbing.....

How the target illumination is done......for using Hellfire, target must be designated or illuminated by laser.........are there some ground laser designation units or drone does it itself or another aircraft does it for Predator.....Pakistan by now MUST know these details.....

Pakistan by now should KNOW that which frequency bands and encryptions are used by Predator for uplink and downlink communications with its GCS or with satellite so that we can think of either jamming it or getting info itself directly.....

There are two main communications........first are the flying commands sent by UAV operator to fly the drone............second are the signals that carry the camera video from drone to ground....

A proper ELINT capability should enable Pakistan to "see" the camera video being transmitted by drone......and any place being targeted in real time.......

what I mean is that Pakistan by now must have complete information about the employment of UCAVs or armed drones.........and be in a position to defend itself.......

In short, these drones can be shot easily, once Pakistan decides to do so.

 

[shehbazi2001]

I think in mountainous terrain helicopters are very hard to spot even if you have a state of the art AWACS flying 24/7. So the solution is to go to every single mountain and valley in Kashmir, FATA etc and dig some bunkers in strategic locations. These bunkers would not be that large and would also have the ability to be run unmanned for many days at a time. On top of each bunker will be placed a few low range sonar, radar and ultrasound sensors and transmitters. Every single valley or nook would be within range of at least 3 of these bunkers which would constantly be monitoring the hilly areas for sound, radiation and visual cues. They will be linked to a central processing area in another location which deals with input coming in from all bunkers and triangulating suspicious readings. This will allow the listening stations to detect even "under the radar" incursions within seconds of coming in range. The bunkers would also be manned by a few SAMs which can be launched by remote control or by soldiers in the bunkers upon order.

In fact I think this low cost system could also look forward across the border to areas Pakistan does not even control and detect incoming choppers flying low in valleys to avoid radar from 2 or 3 miles away. And these concrete bunkers can be built right now at very low cost using entirely local technology and expertise. Also the advantage of these bunkers are that they are widely spread out and low cost as opposed to a flying AWACS which can easily be shot down.

The problem with most pakistanis is they think like shopaholics and want to buy buy buy and spend spend spend instead of taking pride in indigenously developed technology and solutions. This attitude needs to change.

Just want to add that sonars are used under-water. Yes laser radars called LEDARs are an alternative to common electromagnetic radars. However acoustic signataure can be used to detect the noise source and even in the Second World War, England used the sound of German Bombers to detect them.....
Your plan seems to be fit for a long-term permanent presence and yet may take time to develop.....however everything starts with an idea.....

 

[shehbazi2001]

In my opinion, the question is not just how to stop those drones..........the question also is that how to avoid detection by the sensors of drones........this is not just against US drones.........and thats important even for those standing on the ground to shoot down drones..

Those drones have thermal imaging cameras...and they easily detect humans on the ground due to their thermal signature.........brainstorming needs to be done about how to avoid detection on thermal cameras.......

one crude method can be to cover oneself in wet mud so as to stop heat radiation.....other proper techniques may be to wear heat insulating uniform that can be used during troop movements at night.....because at night the heat contrast is very obvious.......

Other counter-techniques may be to plant thermal or heat decoys which are more attractive to thermal camera and look like either some soldiers or some military hardware...........more of such tricks can be thought of......

 

[metalfalcon]

bro we have Capability to detect low flying Objects!!!

We have the capability, remember PAF destroyed an Indian UAV few years back, and just today i heard on " Express News " that PAF's Mirage jets have forced the American Predator to Leave the Pakistani Airspace, we have the capability but these politicians who are paid in DOLLARS are not capable to give statement in Pakistani Interests.

 

[Goodperson]

well my simple Question is How to stop These (US)UAV's From Attacking???

In case Pakistan army has permission from GOV to Destroy These UAV's
But we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems!!! which can destroy These Birds....!!!
Moreover we cannot rely on Expensive PAF flights and as far as paf air defence is concern we only have crotale missile systems which are only used to protect airbases in Pakistan!!!

we cannot destroy these Uav's From Anti Aircraft Guns as they are not capable!!!

I may be wrong in this regard plz do correct me!!!

We need to get hold of modern Missile Defence systems....such as

Tor missile system
(ADATS)
Wiesel 2
Or we can Make Stinger Sites on top of the Mountains

Well in my point of View best Option Is to Procure TOR-M1 Or ADATS

No one simply cannot even if you manage to get them US has ample arsenal in its weaponary to use different means to get its objective.

However I think GOP/Army of Pakistan has some tactical understanding with US/NATO in allowing them to carry out strikes only to deny them in media later. This understanding was obviously due to the muscle power US/NATO has.

Only way to get US leave is to get pressure from internal politics from US aka similar to Iraq where there is tremendous pressure for US to leave. This can be achieved in one way by capturing hand handing over OBL with which Pakistan can hit two birds with one stone and gain appreciation from world over and create pressure for US to leave.

 

[Owais]

well my simple Question is How to stop These (US)UAV's From Attacking???

In case Pakistan army has permission from GOV to Destroy These UAV's
But we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems!!! which can destroy These Birds....!!!
Moreover we cannot rely on Expensive PAF flights and as far as paf air defence is concern we only have crotale missile systems which are only used to protect airbases in Pakistan!!!

we cannot destroy these Uav's From Anti Aircraft Guns as they are not capable!!!

I may be wrong in this regard plz do correct me!!!

We need to get hold of modern Missile Defence systems....such as

Tor missile system
(ADATS)
Wiesel 2
Or we can Make Stinger Sites on top of the Mountains

Well in my point of View best Option Is to Procure TOR-M1 Or ADATS

right now, Pakistan have HQ-2B(SA-2) (approx 32 launchers 400msl). it have range of 80km to 115km. can this system kill predators??

 

[shehbazi2001]

right now, Pakistan have HQ-2B(SA-2) (approx 32 launchers 400msl). it have range of 80km to 115km. can this system kill predators??

HQ-2B is (rather was) best suited for high-altitude air defence. Its acceleration in initial climb is slow and thats why many US fighters were able to avoid it at lower altitudes during Vietnam war.

SA-2 became famous when it shot down two high flying U-2s. First one of Gary Powers over USSR in 1960 that took off from Bada Ber near Peshawar and second over Cuba during Cuban Missile crisis of 1962.

Then in 1965, Indian SA-2s posed problems for Pakistani high-altitude RB-57 ELINT aircrafts.

For low to medium altitude, in Pakistan currenly, Crotale is the choice. But as I mentioned in previous posts, even AAA and MANPADs are sufficient.