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How to Move Forward

Genesis

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The South China Sea decision has been hotly contested. Some have called it a sweeping victory for the Philippines, while others are calling it lame and without merit. The decision won't destroy China and the decision certainly changes the status quo.

China should no longer pursue this line of thinking, the nine dash line. While I agreed with it in the past, due to the fact we are fighting for a global seat, and my belief that a victory of this magnitude would make China the definitive 1B to the US' 1A. Much has changed in the last couple of days.

A strategy of no retreat is not a strategy, Stalin and Hitler both suffered. Consider it this way, no retreat is essentially tying one hand behind your back, it is just as valid as advancing. No logical person would fight with only half the arsenal, why should it not apply here. As long as final victory is achieved, the entire armory needs to be put to work.

To be clear, the decision is a defeat of sort for China, but not in the way most of thought. China is no weaker than we were before the decision, and China is definitely not regressing due to it. The Philippines is the same country after the decision as before it and nothing in terms of the de facto equation has changed. What has changed is the time needed vs benefit has shifted dramatically in the time needed side and time is one thing that shouldn't be wasted.

What China is currently doing is transitioning to a service based economy, to eventually be a hi-tech industrial power. Without dragging this into an economics thread, China will have a good chance of surpassing total GDP of the US in around a decade. Chinese military has grown leaps and bounds. The navy has already seen the hull of 055 in shipyards, J-20 is well on its way to the airforce sometime this year, and perhaps already. The army has replaced many of its older weapons and will most likely cut the rest.

All this signals a rebirth of a great power. Yet here we are tangled in Asia with countries that, for all intent and purposes, can't even make it to regional power status.

China needs to move on. All this advancement will mean nothing, if we can't break free of current complication. We can just as easily win 5-10 years from now as we can today. The equation doesn't change in that sense. Waiting is fruitless.

The best way forward is to move on. Like my favorite strategist Zhang Yi, two step forward and one step back. Now that the Philippines have de jure claim, at least in the eyes of the nations that mattered, even if we take all of the seas and the West do nothing, they can delay the official handing over and the end of the conflict until kingdom come, and we are stuck in Asia fighting with petty squabbles while an entire world is there for the taking.

Having said that, anyone that expects China to just roll over would be delusional. A compromise could be reached, maybe through China paying a rent like a foreign base, or the rights to share the base, with joint patrols over the seas, as well as signing up for other initiatives China initiates and support in future international affairs.

Whatever it is, talks should happen soon, Duterte looks open to talks, that should be taken upon and see where it leads. For some, this maybe hard to swallow, pride wise, but politics has never been about pride. Being bogged down in Asia delays the more important, and the only goal, of great power status. Being in a fight here for 10 years is illogical. Sacrificing the Gold for Bronze.
 
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  • Appropriate Strategy might be Negotiate with Malaysia / Indonesia to rent the Islands
  • Propose same idea to Philippines
  • With Vietnam , propose joint patrol as there are no reefs close to it do some MOU to figure out how two Navies can work together
Use $ to leverage agreement

However since the Islands did not had a specific flag , China came occupied them then China is the owner for the land , they don't have to move technically

Most of these Islands were inhabited so if China moved in did not broke any laws as it did not deport any local residents , place was EMPTY


It might also be good to come to agreement with all nations to keep Islands Empty natural reserve
 
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WO-AY327_USCHIN_9U_20151026184620.jpg



  • Appropriate Strategy might be Negotiate with Malaysia / Indonesia to rent the Islands
  • Propose same idea to Philippines
  • With Vietnam , propose joint patrol as there are no reefs close to it do some MOU to figure out how two Navies can work together
Use $ to leverage agreement

However since the Islands did not had a specific flag , China came occupied them then China is the owner for the land , they don't have to move technically

The sea actually doesn't matter. In ancient times, a 霸主, or essentially a super power in ancient Chinese terms, is a recognition from other countries of its power and status.

What is far more important is that countries, go on with China's initiatives in economics, politics and other spheres. There's influence to be had in South America and Europe from America, power from France in Africa, and deals from Central Asia taken from Russia, as well as rebuild our power base in SEA, and refirm our commitment in South Asia.

The fact is, there is a world of interest to be had, and if we can't get the prestige from one place, we need to get it somewhere else. What we don't need is to be stuck. Being stuck is worse than losing, if you lose you can start again, you can't do shit, if you are stuck.

Though a lease and patrol is one way, can't be too liberal with these deals, compromise doesn't mean capitulate.
 
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The negotiation should be fair

1- All countries agree to keep reefs empty for preservation of wild life only allowed to visit tourist from distance specially from international countries who don't belong in that region

2- If not, then discuss lease of Island from Malaysia /Indonesia for $$$ may be few millions per month etc

3- Once deal is done discuss a similar $ deal with Philippines may be few millions per month etc (if needed)

4- Lastly with Vietnam as they have nothing to offer , just do a friendly MOU for framework for navy to cooperate and may be invite for better trade between countries


The islands don't offer much just location wise interest position but China's own 200 meter zone has enough fish and view that it does not need that extra region.

With China now making Air Craft carriers !!! It does not need these reefs it can move its forces at sea freely
 
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China will be bogged down in disputes, You need to spend time and GDP on this.

You have created this problem for your self by occupying international waters and now you can neither back down nor go forward.

In short, you have give a chance to USA to grind you !
 
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However since China Occupies Islands already , they are not inclined to move ! Flag has already been planted as it was UNCLAIMED territory

It WOULD be a grecious move on part of China to let go of the islands (which really don't offer much)

When you have Aircraft carrier in your fleet you can move your forces any where in world

I can give a good example , when USA once occupied a Island but then it , returned it back to nature and removed its full base and nuclear weapons out of the island.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................
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Oh wait that never happened US still has bases in Japan and other islands and still illegally occupying Cuban Island

Let me ask SIRI and ask if US bases are moved
 
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China should invest in more Aircraft carriers...build them quickly..a trait China is famous for and let go of the Islands. No one can object Chinese AC international waters.
 
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The sea actually doesn't matter. In ancient times, a 霸主, or essentially a super power in ancient Chinese terms, is a recognition from other countries of its power and status.

What is far more important is that countries, go on with China's initiatives in economics, politics and other spheres. There's influence to be had in South America and Europe from America, power from France in Africa, and deals from Central Asia taken from Russia, as well as rebuild our power base in SEA, and refirm our commitment in South Asia.

The fact is, there is a world of interest to be had, and if we can't get the prestige from one place, we need to get it somewhere else. What we don't need is to be stuck. Being stuck is worse than losing, if you lose you can start again, you can't do shit, if you are stuck.

Though a lease and patrol is one way, can't be too liberal with these deals, compromise doesn't mean capitulate.

Kind Genesis, the ancient ethos of advancing by retreat... have you read the text?

Only the wisest can act this way. Only the wisest...

It is a quite solid thesis that you put forward. Certainly it has its merit. In the equation time is a big factor.

Perhaps not the biggest. Nevertheless.

As a Chinese you would know that game of Go is played differently by different players.

China is the only country in the world which can change historic momentum of last 500 years. Hence a hell bent effort of last 200 years to keep China down, sanctioned and contained. Ever wondered why a state equal to your size was created out of blue in the south?

Just an example to humour you. Since before 1989 no tech of value was allowed to China.

After it it all became overt and sanctions are still in place. Look to the South where a country has systematically violated human rights, killed thousands in state sponsored programs... yet no sanctions. The same country is being propped up to counter and contain China. Funny, isnt it.

What is biger picture?

How many boxes are with within the big box?

We must be able to see the global board of Go before we can contemplate a strategic move i.e. a retreat.

May I invite you to construct this global landscape. Start from financial markets, to commodoties, to industrial output, to future of growth in global economy. Calculate the comprehensive national power of each player.

Tao of strategy is in percieving.

It is far too easy to just provide you with personal assessment and opinion.

But one sees great value in your analysis.

So, please, do take a white sheet of paper and pencil..and let the Tao show you the big picture.

For hint.. SCS or ECS problems are artificial...for distraction and buying time from the opposing side as well.

China's biggest threat is from the South to its soft underbelly. Never loose sight of this fact.

Would love to see your analysis. Dont mind the China bashers from delusional southern hordes... they are trained for this.

Take your time.

Sadly do not agree with your suggestion of retreat in the proposed format. Are there other options of retreat?
 
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China will be bogged down in disputes, You need to spend time and GDP on this.

You have created this problem for your self by occupying international waters and now you can neither back down nor go forward.

In short, you have give a chance to USA to grind you !

China has made it easy for the US to entrench its position in East Asia. The US now has military bases/pacts with Japan ,South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Australia. US relations with India, Indonesia, and Vietnam are on the rise as well. Within the last couple years, the US military has shifted its focus away from counterterror operations in the Middle East back to near pear competitors. The US military is now launching a near full scale recapitalization of its forces over the next 15-20 years. This spells trouble for China along its periphery in the future. Why? Because, the US will have the military capability and network of alliances to maintain hegemony in the sea and skies of East Asia. Unless the CCP retreats from its current position, I expect China will remain "bogged down" in Asia over the next few decades to come.
 
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China has made it easy for the US to entrench its position in East Asia. The US now has military bases/pacts with Japan ,South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Australia. US relations with India, Indonesia, and Vietnam are on the rise as well. Within the last couple years, the US military has shifted its focus away from counterterror operations in the Middle East back to near pear competitors. The US military is now launching a near full scale recapitalization of its forces over the next 15-20 years. This spells trouble for China along its periphery in the future. Why? Because, the US will have the military capability and network of alliances to maintain hegemony in the sea and skies of East Asia. Unless the CCP retreats from its current position, I expect China will remain "bogged down" in Asia over the next few decades to come.

It cost far more for the US to prop up its "allies" and maintain its presence in Asia than for China to build islands. Just upgrading the military bases in Philippines would cost more. So all China needs to do is just reinforce its bases there and wait. Over-extension is the end of all empire.
 
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It WOULD be a grecious move on part of China to let go of the islands (which really don't offer much)

When you have Aircraft carrier in your fleet you can move your forces any where in world

I think this is more about submarines than aircraft carriers. The water is shallow along the fringes of the SCS near China but is very deep where the disputed islands are.

Screen Shot 2016-07-17 at 9.34.55 PM.jpg
 
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It cost far more for the US to prop up its "allies" and maintain its presence in Asia than for China to build islands. Just upgrading the military bases in Philippines would cost more. So all China needs to do is just reinforce its bases there and wait. Over-extension is the end of all empire.

The US is spending roughly 3% of its GDP on the military. It was spending double that during the Reagan era. I hope the Chinese being assigned to those rocks are patient.
 
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The US is spending roughly 3% of its GDP on the military. It was spending double that during the Reagan era. I hope the Chinese being assigned to those rocks are patient.
Do you ever care about your country or your people? spending double that?
A typical red neck Yankee logic... fuk the poor, education, environment,science and medicare...as long as i have money to buy my pew-pew gun, I'm happy...Yeehaw
discretionary_spending_pie%2C_2015_enacted.png
 
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China has made it easy for the US to entrench its position in East Asia. The US now has military bases/pacts with Japan ,South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Australia. US relations with India, Indonesia, and Vietnam are on the rise as well. Within the last couple years, the US military has shifted its focus away from counterterror operations in the Middle East back to near pear competitors. The US military is now launching a near full scale recapitalization of its forces over the next 15-20 years. This spells trouble for China along its periphery in the future. Why? Because, the US will have the military capability and network of alliances to maintain hegemony in the sea and skies of East Asia. Unless the CCP retreats from its current position, I expect China will remain "bogged down" in Asia over the next few decades to come.


That's what most Americans and Indian think :rofl: but in contrary, US has made it easy for the world because China has made US bogged down in SCS: ISIS and all anti-American factions will have time to breath, reorganize and re-strengthening and rise on their respective regions, and US will have to run like headless chicken trying to pacify them. And Americans will feel luck if China don't not provide anti-American factions around the world with military assistance as you did in SCS against China.

Americans think they're smart by pick China as enemy, we can very well make American bleed elsewhere for what they did in SCS, remember of Korea and Vietnam war, we have no hesitation to give them assistance against US when we decided that US is the enemy...I hope that both nations don't have to come to this point to declare as enemy of each other, US should know that working against China interest then it will be forfeited as well.:sniper:
 
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China has made it easy for the US to entrench its position in East Asia. The US now has military bases/pacts with Japan ,South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Australia. US relations with India, Indonesia, and Vietnam are on the rise as well. Within the last couple years, the US military has shifted its focus away from counterterror operations in the Middle East back to near pear competitors. The US military is now launching a near full scale recapitalization of its forces over the next 15-20 years. This spells trouble for China along its periphery in the future. Why? Because, the US will have the military capability and network of alliances to maintain hegemony in the sea and skies of East Asia. Unless the CCP retreats from its current position, I expect China will remain "bogged down" in Asia over the next few decades to come.
We don't really fear your presence at all. If it's international water, all ships are free to sail including our ships. If you don't knock on our door, we have no reason to answer. So you can spend as much money as you want to patrol and protect the region from Pinoy pirate. It doesn't change a damn thing until you forcefully invaded and confront our property in SCS. If that happen, may god bless you.

Also I want to say this. There WILL be no compromise on our territorial integrity. Not even one inches of our property will be given away. You have to walk over our dead body if you want to see that.
 
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