How to beat the "1971Civil War " Psychological Syndrome !

[Raj-Hindustani]

You really are a bloody fool,
it is you who replied to my message, how hard is that for you to understand, either you counter my arguments or move on.

Stop behaving like a child. Refugees are not part of this argument, full stop. If you think they are, then explain why, and relate it to my original argument to which you had replied.

I would like to meet few sensible Indians before I die, but my hopes are not that high.


p.s.
I have to say, I have come across one or two sensible ones on pdf, so still hoping more are out there. Joe being one, and a couple of other ones, I may not have agreed with them, but at least they knew how to have a proper sensible discussion.

For the likes of you, they might as well get the fires ready, because you are just embarrassing yourself. Go and learn how to have an argument, then come back to me.
The first part is that you stick to the topic, you don't bring new topics into the discussion without justifying why.
This is the third time I have asked you to justify yourself, you have been unable to do so, I will not be replying to anymore of your fantasies.

I am done with you, you need serious help.

best line... bold one... same i was thinking.

now we are at same side.. thank you

 

[peagle]

People, the line has started, Indian fools are on the March,
are you here to share more of your fantasies, how many times do I have to kick your backside before you learn.

Reminds me of the story of Ajmal Kasab, the terrorist caught in Mumbai, he was made to believe that Muslims in India are not even allowed to pray in mosques and on this claim after questioning the interrogating officer took him to prison through a different route where he could see Friday prayers happen.

For one, I don't care about Kasab, it's called "ghar mein gus kar marna", revenge for Samjota express.

Secondly, he asked forgiveness from Bhagwan in his interview, you have to be crazy to think a Muslim would ask Bhagwan for forgiveness, especially a religious extremist as he was claimed do to be, and especially if you are on your deathbed, as he was seriously injured.

His language sounded much more Hindi than Urdu. So many discrepancies in the story, no-one knows the actual truth.

There are too many ifs and buts regarding Kasab, and the whole incident, so I honestly do not have a clear opinion on the matter. And, I don't really care. Except for the loss of life. But then India has a lot to answer for as well. You cant pick and choose.

But, you people really do know how to beat a dead horse.

I don't know what kind of propaganda you hear from your "Indian friends", but isn't it a bit weird to think the third-largest Muslim population in the world must be living under constant ridicule and oppression. The only oppression they face IMO is backwardness. But the answers should come from the community.

You have made so many assumptions here, I do not know where to start.
The oppression of minorities in India is such a stark reality, just to deny it, is being plain stupid, and blind to the obvious.

Following is a teasing reminder for the deliberately blind

 

[Baibars_1260]

@Raj-Hindustani @Chhatrapati @peagle @arjunk

Gentlemen,
Let's concentrate on the topic of the aftermath of the 1971 war.
Let's talk with humor, and as much civility, the citizens of two enemy nations can offer each other. We may not be around very long for anyone to care what insults we hurl at each other.
We are merely looking at the aftermath and how we stand today.
As a timeline by aftermath I mean the point from after the formation of Bangladesh, and the conclusion of the Civil War.
So the time line begins after 16th December 1971.
Timeline from:
16th December to 21st December 1971...
Acceptance of the 21st December Ceasefire UN resolution.

Disengagement and withdrawal to the 17th December positions and Sam Manekshaw's visit to Lahore...

Delhi Agreements 1973 and 1974.

Moving forward:
7 years of " no diplomatic relations " status between India and Pakistan with closed embassies, borders and no communication links.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, its impact on Indo-Pakistan relations.
Geo-strategic impact of the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
( Note: This thread is primarily meant for Pakistanis so even though this aspect doesn't directly impact India, our Indian guests are welcome to contribute) .

Operation Brasstacks etc.

There is 50 years of history to review and catch up on. Why waste our time on insults and one liners.
Let's research a little before posting. Once we have annihilated ourselves these posts might still exist in Cyberspace. At least future Cyber-Historians will not laugh at us.
@Raj-Hindustani what do you think?
We hate each other and would willingly nuke each other to oblivion if we could, and we probably will ending the great "Indian civilization" that has been around for 5400 years. Lets record here for posterity why we did what we did .

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@Raj-Hindustani @Chhatrapati @peagle @arjunk

Gentlemen,
Let's concentrate on the topic of the aftermath of the 1971 war.
Let's talk with humor, and as much civility, the citizens of two enemy nations can offer each other. We may not be around very long for anyone to care what insults we hurl at each other.
We are merely looking at the aftermath and how we stand today.
As a timeline by aftermath I mean the point from after the formation of Bangladesh, and the conclusion of the Civil War.
So the time line begins after 16th December 1971.
Timeline from:
16th December to 21st December 1971...
Acceptance of the 21st December Ceasefire UN resolution.

Disengagement and withdrawal to the 17th December positions and Sam Manekshaw's visit to Lahore...

Delhi Agreements 1973 and 1974.

Moving forward:
7 years of " no diplomatic relations " status between India and Pakistan with closed embassies, borders and no communication links.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, its impact on Indo-Pakistan relations.
Geo-strategic impact of the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
( Note: This thread is primarily meant for Pakistanis so even though this aspect doesn't directly impact India, our Indian guests are welcome to contribute) .

Operation Brasstacks etc.

There is 50 years of history to review and catch up on. Why waste our time on insults and one liners.
Let's research a little before posting. Once we have annihilated ourselves these posts might still exist in Cyberspace. At least future Cyber-Historians will not laugh at us.
@Raj-Hindustani what do you think?

Getting a bit off topic but in your opinion, where do you think Pakistan's geostrategic and security settings will be in the next 50 years? I think that is the million dollar question.

PS are you a professional historian or have you studied politics at postgraduate level? You're writing skills indicate that.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Getting a bit off topic but in your opinion, where do you think Pakistan's geostrategic and security settings will be in the next 50 years? I think that is the million dollar question.

It is off topic and we can have a separate thread on that. My short answer is both India and Pakistan are unlikely to survive as nations for the next 50 years so the question is moot. We will have nuked ourselves into the stone age. Pakistan is in extreme danger of being annihilated by a savage and extremely vicious regime that is grossly ignorant of the repercussions of its own actions. 1971 was a picnic compared to the situation now.

PS are you a professional historian or have you studied politics at postgraduate level? You're writing skills indicate that.

No, I am not a professional historian. My skills are purely technical, as an R & D engineer in very specialized equipment. My prime interest obviously because of my background is defence technology (the "nuts and bolts" ) .
I am far more interested in the functioning of a hydraulic pump drive on a turbine engined tank than arguing a "1000 year revenge".
History is my secondary interest but I am still passionate about it, I do want to go into facts rather than subjective emotions. The fact that I have traveled a little bit helps me understand other peoples including the people of the enemy nation.

 

[Chhatrapati]

For one, I don't care about Kasab, it's called "ghar mein gus kar marna", revenge for Samjota express.

Secondly, he asked forgiveness from Bhagwan in his interview, you have to be crazy to think a Muslim would ask Bhagwan for forgiveness, especially a religious extremist as he was claimed do to be, and especially if you are on your deathbed, as he was seriously injured.

His language sounded much more Hindi than Urdu. So many discrepancies in the story, no-one knows the actual truth.

There are too many ifs and buts regarding Kasab, and the whole incident, so I honestly do not have a clear opinion on the matter. And, I don't really care. Except for the loss of life. But then India has a lot to answer for as well. You cant pick and choose.

But, you people really do know how to beat a dead horse.

It's not about Kasab or taking credits for those terrorists or feel proud about it. And also, you can take your issues with him quoting Bhagwan, at the Pakistan media personnel who took that interview of Kasabs parents. I don't need to dwell into your conspiracy theories, your involvement was established by agencies both in India and abroad. Not the topic here, but the prosecution of Muslims.

You have made so many assumptions here, I do not know where to start.
The oppression of minorities in India is such a stark reality, just to deny it, is being plain stupid, and blind to the obvious.

Following is a teasing reminder for the deliberately blind

No. Like I said before, Muslims have equal opportunities or more to come out of socio-economic backwardness. I could highlight temples destroyed in riots throughout and fill the thread with it and claim Muslims are a community who can't co-exist with anyone even themselves by highlighting issues in Pakistan regarding Ahmediya (not)Muslims, Shias etc... That doesn't mean it's the 100% truth. Are you in for such an argument? I'd rather not, but making blanket claims like Muslims are on full on oppression in India is something without any substance.

Look at other minorities, Parsi, Jain, Sikh, Christian some of the most affluent communities in India and are in general well off in comparison to even Hindus (if taking percentage). They don't get any special treatment like Muslims.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

It is off topic and we can have a separate thread on that. My short answer is both India and Pakistan are unlikely to survive as nations for the next 50 years so the question is moot. We will have nuked ourselves into the stone age. Pakistan is in extreme danger of being annihilated by a savage and extremely vicious regime that is grossly ignorant of the repercussions of its own actions. 1971 was a picnic compared to the situation now.



No, I am not a professional historian. My skills are purely technical, as an R & D engineer in very specialized equipment. My prime interest obviously because of my background is defence technology (the "nuts and bolts" ) .
I am far more interested in the functioning of a hydraulic pump drive on a turbine engined tank than arguing a "1000 year revenge".
History is my secondary interest but I am still passionate about it, I do want to go into facts rather than subjective emotions. The fact that I have traveled a little bit helps me understand other peoples including the people of the enemy nation.

I personally believe in 50 years time we will have negligible contact with those to the east of us and we will be more fully integrated with China. I also believe that Afghanistan will more integrated with us. Just my humble predictions so I could be completely wrong.

 

[arjunk]

@Raj-Hindustani @Chhatrapati @peagle @arjunk

Gentlemen,
Let's concentrate on the topic of the aftermath of the 1971 war.
Let's talk with humor, and as much civility, the citizens of two enemy nations can offer each other. We may not be around very long for anyone to care what insults we hurl at each other.
We are merely looking at the aftermath and how we stand today.
As a timeline by aftermath I mean the point from after the formation of Bangladesh, and the conclusion of the Civil War.
So the time line begins after 16th December 1971.
Timeline from:
16th December to 21st December 1971...
Acceptance of the 21st December Ceasefire UN resolution.

Disengagement and withdrawal to the 17th December positions and Sam Manekshaw's visit to Lahore...

Delhi Agreements 1973 and 1974.

Moving forward:
7 years of " no diplomatic relations " status between India and Pakistan with closed embassies, borders and no communication links.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, its impact on Indo-Pakistan relations.
Geo-strategic impact of the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
( Note: This thread is primarily meant for Pakistanis so even though this aspect doesn't directly impact India, our Indian guests are welcome to contribute) .

Operation Brasstacks etc.

There is 50 years of history to review and catch up on. Why waste our time on insults and one liners.
Let's research a little before posting. Once we have annihilated ourselves these posts might still exist in Cyberspace. At least future Cyber-Historians will not laugh at us.
@Raj-Hindustani what do you think?
We hate each other and would willingly nuke each other to oblivion if we could, and we probably will ending the great "Indian civilization" that has been around for 5400 years. Lets record here for posterity why we did what we did .

After 1971, Pakistan turned itself into a security based state to avoid any attack by India in the future. The army quickly got rid of Bhutto, and while Gen. Zia caused many issues that plague the country to this day (religious extremism etc), he had a few major achievements which saved Pakistan's existence, namely:
- Threatening to nuke India during Brasstacks, forcing Indian troops to withdraw and do the exercise in another direction. The burden of this paralysed India's infrastructure for days and inflicted huge costs on the country.
- Nuclear tests: Need I say more?
- Successfully matching India's military capability. This is a result of having the resources of the state focused on military needs. Otherwise, the balance of power would fall to India's side and encourage them to try another 1971.
- Bleed India with a thousand cuts. While this is mostly a fantasy of Indians, their nightmares seem to have come true:

• Maoists currently exercise control over almost 20% of India's area
• Crippling Kashmir insurgency
• India is forced to deploy nearly a million troops in the mountainous areas of Kashmir, costing them lots of money
• Khalistan movement, which reached a point where the condition of East Punjab was exactly the same as Bangladesh in March 1971. However, Benazir Bhutto willingly provided classified information to India, which resulted in India crushing the movement.
• Northeast Indian separatist groups require India to commit a sizeable amount of troops far away from Pakistan.

- And my favourite, that the majority of Indians are brainwashed into thinking that Pakistan is a walkover. This results in incompetency up till the very top levels of leadership, the results of which have been revealed during Modi's reign.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

After 1971, Pakistan turned itself into a security based state to avoid any attack by India in the future. The army quickly got rid of Bhutto, and while Gen. Zia caused many issues that plague the country to this day (religious extremism etc), he had a few major achievements which saved Pakistan's existence, namely:
- Threatening to nuke India during Brasstacks, forcing Indian troops to withdraw and do the exercise in another direction. The burden of this paralysed India's infrastructure for days and inflicted huge costs on the country.
- Nuclear tests: Need I say more?
- Successfully matching India's military capability. This is a result of having the resources of the state focused on military needs. Otherwise, the balance of power would fall to India's side and encourage them to try another 1971.
- Bleed India with a thousand cuts. While this is mostly a fantasy of Indians, their nightmares seem to have come true:

• Maoists currently exercise control over almost 20% of India's area
• Crippling Kashmir insurgency
• India is forced to deploy nearly a million troops in the mountainous areas of Kashmir, costing them lots of money
• Khalistan movement, which reached a point where the condition of East Punjab was exactly the same as Bangladesh in March 1971. However, Benazir Bhutto willingly provided classified information to India, which resulted in India crushing the movement.
• Northeast Indian separatist groups require India to commit a sizeable amount of troops far away from Pakistan.

- And my favourite, that the majority of Indians are brainwashed into thinking that Pakistan is a walkover. This results in incompetency up till the very top levels of leadership, the results of which have been revealed during Modi's reign.

Again, not going off topic but the increase in Pakistani military strength also stopped the americans from doing to us what they had done to the Iraqis and Afghans.

 

[Baibars_1260]

@arjunk
Could you comment on the support on hardware Pakistan got in the months immediately after 1971.
I believe Iranian F-5s were briefly operating in Pakistan airspace and the Shah of Iran sent over spares and ammo defying US sanctions ( which the USA was looking the other way ).
I believe Jordan and Indonesia pitched in also.

China pitched in with more F-6s supplementing the PAF and making up for losses. Pakistan lost 12 F-86 Sabres in the East, disabled on the ground by the aircrew before they flew to Myanmar in STOL aircraft then home.

 

[peagle]

It's not about Kasab or taking credits for those terrorists or feel proud about it. And also, you can take your issues with him quoting Bhagwan, at the Pakistan media personnel who took that interview of Kasabs parents. I don't need to dwell into your conspiracy theories, your involvement was established by agencies both in India and abroad. Not the topic here, but the prosecution of Muslims.

Conspiracy theories?
Please counter my facts, not create your own arguments and own answers. I have no issues if someone wants to call out to Bhagwan, but, the fact remains, a Muslim would never do that, it is just totally contradictory to a monotheistic faith, so for him to ask Bhagwan for forgiveness, points to something suspicious, I cannot say what that is, because I do not know, it does not mean the obvious suspicion goes away or isn't relevant. To ignore it is being willingly blind.

I did not question whether he was Pakistani or not, I highlighted just a few serious contradictions in the Mumbai attack/Kasab story. I can conjure up a whole range of imaginative scenarios, from those contradictions, but I won't, because unlike some, I prefer to deal with facts. If those facts bring forward suspicions, then it needs to be pointed and not hidden away. There are too many missing facts and contradictions to take the Mumbai attack at its face value.

If you do not have reasonable answers, then please do not place irrelevant points into the pot. It makes no sense. You cannot pick and choose to form your own conclusions.

No. Like I said before, Muslims have equal opportunities or more to come out of socio-economic backwardness. I could highlight temples destroyed in riots throughout and fill the thread with it and claim Muslims are a community who can't co-exist with anyone even themselves by highlighting issues in Pakistan regarding Ahmediya (not)Muslims, Shias etc... That doesn't mean it's the 100% truth. Are you in for such an argument? I'd rather not, but making blanket claims like Muslims are on full on oppression in India is something without any substance.
Look at other minorities, Parsi, Jain, Sikh, Christian some of the most affluent communities in India and are in general well off in comparison to even Hindus (if taking percentage). They don't get any special treatment like Muslims.

I have no issues with discussing anything, but as long as it is an open honest discussion, that's based on facts and is relevant. And, the points don't get repeated to death, without further broad arguments, just sticking to the same point, otherwise, a discussion is endless, that's just silly. The essential point of a discussion or an argument is to reach a conclusion, otherwise, there is no point in talking.

Ok, let's briefly touch Pakistan, but let's no forget this discussion is regarding India. There is no community in Pakistan facing any persecution, except the Ahmadis. It requires a deeper discussion, and there are reasons behind that, not to say it is justified but there are reasons.
But, it is an issue within the Muslim community, so it is no one else's concern. Then I could bring out all the oppression of the caste system, and how the untouchables are treated as slaves, and so many other things, so you see my point, the discussion becomes endless. It has to be concentrated.

Just because one thing exists, that does not mean everything else becomes irrelevant. I agree the Muslims are socio-economically backward. But that does not mean they do not face persecution. And, it is truly sad that someone would pick on that point to put all the blame on their shoulders.

Just because other minority communities are doing better, you cant use that to justify your arguments, it's lame and mindless. It amounts to whataboutism, what about this and what about that. Really? If you want to have a discussion, then please discuss the points and provide relevant answers, not whataboutism.

It has been seventy-plus years since the creation of India,
The Muslims have minimal representation in the Public sector and state institutions.
Their representation in the Parliament, that's the Lok sabha on average is between 3-4% and a similar amount in the Rajya sabha, they make up almost 15% of the population
In every Indian public institution, the military, civil service, parliament, and assemblies, they have no fair representation. it is just a fact, it cannot be denied.
Plus they face constant harassment, torture, and death, a lot of times in an organized manner, resulting in the deaths of hundreds and thousand, How is that not persecution?

It's not just Muslims, others also complain of discrimination and persecution, including people I know or have known. But my main concern is with the Muslims, and how they are treated, hence, I am limiting myself to that part of the discussion in order to avoid unnecessary expansion and a discussion without an end.

Also, you are taking a literal interpretation, it is not to say that every single Muslim has experienced or experiences issues in India. Racism exists in the UK, but that does not mean, every single minority group or individual experiences it. The level of racism, discrimination, or persecution only becomes classified once it reaches a certain level. Once it becomes too visible, and a large percentage of the group on the receiving end starts to feel threatened, and, or insecure in an environment. So, a literate meaning that the Muslims of India are persecuted is an unfair interpretation.

Some of the points you have raised are fair, you are being extremely unfair by ignoring other relevant issues, that only point to a single reality, that they do face high levels of discrimination. Whether one calls it persecution or another term, it does not help the situation, but, a situation does exist, not to recognize it is just wrong

 

[Chhatrapati]

I have no issues if someone wants to call out to Bhagwan, but, the fact remains, a Muslim would never do that, it is just totally contradictory to a monotheistic faith, so for him to ask Bhagwan for forgiveness, points to something suspicious, I cannot say what that is, because I do not know, it does not mean the obvious suspicion goes away or isn't relevant. To ignore it is being willingly blind.

A Muslim would never tie a sacred thread around his arms either. But he had all that, the point is being a Muslim, there is no guarantee one wouldn't lie, he has been trained to lie to change the narrative or whatever. So, saying a Hindu would never say ya Allah or Khuda hafiz and him saying it doesn't really change some well-known facts.

There are no missing facts, Pakistanis themselves corroborated it and with the evidence provided from the intercepted calls to and from Pakistan. Your missing links are your denial, once you get out of it, then things will be clear instead of thinking why a Muslim would say this, or say that wear this etc... I'd be happy to be proven wrong, or say the investigations conducted by FBI and Indian agencies are part of a wider conspiracy to malign Pakistan.

There is no community in Pakistan facing any persecution, except the Ahmadis.

Ditto the number of temples destroyed and burned (before Social media came and made them viral). Or the news about underage girls getting abducted and married off. I could sit here and draw a very terrible picture.

Just because one thing exists, that does not mean everything else becomes irrelevant. I agree the Muslims are socio-economically backward. But that does not mean they do not face persecution. And, it is truly sad that someone would pick on that point to put all the blame on their shoulders.

Just because other minority communities are doing better, you cant use that to justify your arguments, it's lame and mindless. It amounts to whataboutism, what about this and what about that. Really? If you want to have a discussion, then please discuss the points and provide relevant answers, not whataboutism.

Muslims are not prosecuted for practising their faith in India. Even with Social Media activism most of the highlighted issues are greatly overblown. There are communal issues in India, but they are mostly law and order issues that are confined to certain regions rather than the whole country.

I used other communities to make a point and because you said minorities face prosecution in India. Muslims have nothing special from Christians, Jains, Sikhs or Parsis. It's not engaging in whataboutery either, I used the socio-economic background of these communities for comparison, government aid for these communities are non-existent, they don't have special scholarships, no special schools except maybe for Christians. There are opportunities to get oneself out of perpetual backwardness. Nobody is stopping a Muslim from going to school and getting educated. They get a special reservation in institutions (although there is no religion-based reservation).

It has been seventy-plus years since the creation of India,
The Muslims have minimal representation in the Public sector and state institutions.
Their representation in the Parliament, that's the Lok sabha on average is between 3-4% and a similar amount in the Rajya sabha, they make up almost 15% of the population
In every Indian public institution, the military, civil service, parliament, and assemblies, they have no fair representation. it is just a fact, it cannot be denied.
Plus they face constant harassment, torture, and death, a lot of times in an organized manner, resulting in the deaths of hundreds and thousand, How is that not persecution?

The situation of Muslims in India is they are the least educated behind even behind Dalits, one of the lowest high school enrolment rate, lowest literacy rate, highest TFR, and lowest employment rate (first points contributed to this). Now I will give two examples, you're not gonna like it as it involves a peculiar state. I'm from Kerala, lives in a particularly Muslim dominated area, they have some of the highest income statuses in India vis other Muslims, the key is literate, educated and affluent. By no means they face prosecution here. Now the next state is Gujarat, again a place where Muslims are mostly affluent. Yes, both these states had communal issues in the past, but that didn't put them behind others rather they lift themselves out of the poor situations they were in.

The bolded part is hilariously stupid. I'm not going to reply to such blanket statements. If you believe it, good for you.

It's not just Muslims, others also complain of discrimination and persecution, including people I know or have known. But my main concern is with the Muslims, and how they are treated, hence, I am limiting myself to that part of the discussion in order to avoid unnecessary expansion and a discussion without an end.

Yeah, we are not a perfect society where we eradicated every type of discrimination. At least constitutionally we don't discriminate (although 'positive' discrimination for improving social condition does exist). And again, almost all social situations can be tied to economic situations as well. We are not talking about a few hundred thousand people, but more than 150 million people who according to you is facing constant harassment, torture, organized mass killings. Yep, 150 million people are getting killed one by one, could've used the fancy 'G' word.

Also, you are taking a literal interpretation, it is not to say that every single Muslim has experienced or experiences issues in India. Racism exists in the UK, but that does not mean, every single minority group or individual experiences it. The level of racism, discrimination, or persecution only becomes classified once it reaches a certain level. Once it becomes too visible, and a large percentage of the group on the receiving end starts to feel threatened, and, or insecure in an environment. So, a literate meaning that the Muslims of India are persecuted is an unfair interpretation.

I'm not saying the situation of Muslims in India are all hunky and dory. As explained, their situation in India is the worst but your focus is misdirected at the state and the perpetual prosecution they face forcing them down the rabbit hole. As explained by you having lower representation in government jobs and parliament and if you ask me to list some Muslim leaders in India, I could only count them on fingers.

Some of the points you have raised are fair, you are being extremely unfair by ignoring other relevant issues, that only point to a single reality, that they do face high levels of discrimination. Whether one calls it persecution or another term, it does not help the situation, but, a situation does exist, not to recognize it is just wrong

The other relevant issues you quote are superficial and the points I raised are fundamental. Now I don't want to dwell on more religious issues and the overall perception issues which come from the fundamental problems facing the community.

 

[peagle]

Chhatrapati, I think I will have to cut down responding to your fantasies, you are seriously misinformed, you do not know much, so you go into your fantasies, devoid of factual information.

I gave you an honest sensible reply, you have given me nothing but dribble yet again, you really are an idiot. I am not here to talk with children.

Do you not know how to have a discussion or an argument?
Again you have bought every irrelevant topic under the sun, I suppose one needs a brain to concentrate on one thing, but it's easier to say two bits about everything, rather than have an in-depth discussion.

A Muslim would never tie a sacred thread around his arms either. But he had all that, the point is being a Muslim, there is no guarantee one wouldn't lie, he has been trained to lie to change the narrative or whatever. So, saying a Hindu would never say ya Allah or Khuda hafiz and him saying it doesn't really change some well-known facts.

There are no missing facts, Pakistanis themselves corroborated it and with the evidence provided from the intercepted calls to and from Pakistan. Your missing links are your denial, once you get out of it, then things will be clear instead of thinking why a Muslim would say this, or say that wear this etc... I'd be happy to be proven wrong, or say the investigations conducted by FBI and Indian agencies are part of a wider conspiracy to malign Pakistan.

You idiot, your first paragraph makes no sense, if you are saying he was wearing a sacred thread, then it reinforces the suspicions about Kasab and the whole story. Only a Muslim raised in India, trying to fit in, might wear a sacred thread among his Hindu friends, otherwise never, God you are so thick.

Asking forgiveness from Bhagwan is not, never done by a Muslim, especially an extremist, either you believe it or not is up to you, you fool.

Ditto the number of temples destroyed and burned (before Social media came and made them viral). Or the news about underage girls getting abducted and married off. I could sit here and draw a very terrible picture.

Ditto to what? are you ok? did your mummy not clean you after the potty.
Temples? girls? what are you talking about, you fool, make sense for once.
Odd incidents, cannot be used as examples of anything.

Muslims are not prosecuted for practising their faith in India. Even with Social Media activism most of the highlighted issues are greatly overblown. There are communal issues in India, but they are mostly law and order issues that are confined to certain regions rather than the whole country.

I used other communities to make a point and because you said minorities face prosecution in India. Muslims have nothing special from Christians, Jains, Sikhs or Parsis. It's not engaging in whataboutery either, I used the socio-economic background of these communities for comparison, government aid for these communities are non-existent, they don't have special scholarships, no special schools except maybe for Christians. There are opportunities to get oneself out of perpetual backwardness. Nobody is stopping a Muslim from going to school and getting educated. They get a special reservation in institutions (although there is no religion-based reservation).

If you cannot see the persecution of Muslims in India, then no one can force you, and I am sick of talking with you but thank God I met you, if there are more like you all over India, we have nothing to worry about. You people will kill each other anyway.

Christians and Sikhs are not persecuted, ok more lies. They have done well in India, like the Parsis and Jains, but for their own reasons. I don't wish to explain facts to a fool who won't understand.
Regarding their persecution in India, watch the following videos. The examples are endless, these are simple reminders.

The situation of Muslims in India is they are the least educated behind even behind Dalits, one of the lowest high school enrolment rate, lowest literacy rate, highest TFR, and lowest employment rate (first points contributed to this). Now I will give two examples, you're not gonna like it as it involves a peculiar state. I'm from Kerala, lives in a particularly Muslim dominated area, they have some of the highest income statuses in India vis other Muslims, the key is literate, educated and affluent. By no means they face prosecution here. Now the next state is Gujarat, again a place where Muslims are mostly affluent. Yes, both these states had communal issues in the past, but that didn't put them behind others rather they lift themselves out of the poor situations they were in.

The bolded part is hilariously stupid. I'm not going to reply to such blanket statements. If you believe it, good for you.

Again, you are not making any sense. Kerala, I understand, has a different social structure, it has had a lot of problems, but from my understanding, the persecution level discrimination is a lot less in the southern states, especially Kerala.
But if you are going to say the Muslims in Gujarat are doing good, then you are insane. My sister-in-law is a Gujrati, my real sister in law, not some namesake.
The documented persecution of Muslims in Gujarat is so widely available, if you are ignoring all the widely available facts, then you are showing your true colours, lying, deceitful and two-faced.

Yeah, we are not a perfect society where we eradicated every type of discrimination. At least constitutionally we don't discriminate (although 'positive' discrimination for improving social condition does exist). And again, almost all social situations can be tied to economic situations as well. We are not talking about a few hundred thousand people, but more than 150 million people who according to you is facing constant harassment, torture, organized mass killings. Yep, 150 million people are getting killed one by one, could've used the fancy 'G' word.

What are you saying, can you please once try to be coherent. Under the Pakistans constitution, a Hindu man has two votes, and Hindu women 3 votes, also other minorities.

They have a reserved seat proportional to their population in all the assemblies, plus they are free to stand for election in the open seats, plus women can be elected via the seats reserved for women. That's multiple routes into the parliament and assemblies.
Plus since 2012, the government has introduced a policy to get to the level of 5% of the government job for the minorities, they make up less than 4% of the population.

I'm not saying the situation of Muslims in India are all hunky and dory. As explained, their situation in India is the worst but your focus is misdirected at the state and the perpetual prosecution they face forcing them down the rabbit hole. As explained by you having lower representation in government jobs and parliament and if you ask me to list some Muslim leaders in India, I could only count them on fingers.

At least you admit something, but, you cannot pick and choose, and ignore the rest. You have to be blind to ignore everything else.

The other relevant issues you quote are superficial and the points I raised are fundamental. Now I don't want to dwell on more religious issues and the overall perception issues which come from the fundamental problems facing the community.

Getting killed is not superficial, neither is torture, and neither is living in fear. All that happens.

But, I think you are the first Indian I am going to block here, you are an idiot who has no idea how to have a discussion or an argument. In each discussion, You keep raising points totally irrelevant to a discussion, without explaining why, and you go into self-congratulatory explanations, it is a mark of a madman, a fool.

Good riddance to you.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Chhatrapati, I think I will have to cut down responding to your fantasies, you are seriously misinformed, you do not know much, so you go into your fantasies, devoid of factual information.

I gave you an honest sensible reply, you have given me nothing but dribble yet again, you really are an idiot. I am not here to talk with children.

Do you not know how to have a discussion or an argument?
Again you have bought every irrelevant topic under the sun, I suppose one needs a brain to concentrate on one thing, but it's easier to say two bits about everything, rather than have an in-depth discussion.

You idiot, your first paragraph makes no sense, if you are saying he was wearing a sacred thread, then it reinforces the suspicions about Kasab and the whole story. Only a Muslim raised in India, trying to fit in, might wear a sacred thread among his Hindu friends, otherwise never, God you are so thick.

Asking forgiveness from Bhagwan is not, never done by a Muslim, especially an extremist, either you believe it or not is up to you, you fool.

Ever heard of the term called deception? Your entire argument is invalid shit conspiracy, mainly because saying Bhagwan or having a sacred thread on hand doesn't make one Hindu or Indian Muslim, it cast doubt over the intentions of the terrorists. Kasab was to die as Samir Chaudhari.
Here's what your own newspapers reported. Ajmal`s nationality confirmed Still, going on with Bhagwan and thread Bullshit? You're fooling no one Pakistani. Try again ten times before getting exposed like this.

The rest of your points were given a detailed reply. Nothing to add to what I have already said you got nothing to add or counter my points either from what I read. PS : Control your anger I know the way to deal with your ilk too well, but realized throwing insults are the easy way out when you run out of valid points.

 

[peagle]

Ever heard of the term called deception? Your entire argument is invalid shit conspiracy, mainly because saying Bhagwan or having a sacred thread on hand doesn't make one Hindu or Indian Muslim, it cast doubt over the intentions of the terrorists. Kasab was to die as Samir Chaudhari.
Here's what your own newspapers reported. Ajmal`s nationality confirmed Still, going on with Bhagwan and thread Bullshit? You're fooling no one Pakistani. Try again ten times before getting exposed like this.

The rest of your points were given a detailed reply. Nothing to add to what I have already said you got nothing to add or counter my points either from what I read. PS : Control your anger I know the way to deal with your ilk too well, but realized throwing insults are the easy way out when you run out of valid points.

There is no anger to control.
But when you practice lies, deception, and a two-faced approach, refusing to recognize simple facts, and creating your own is extremely sad.

And being repetitive in your approach is being malicious, the only way to deal with malicious people like you is to go head-on. I tried to have a reasoned honest discussion with you, and you went into your fantasies yet again, that's low and despicable. it shows the lack of capacity to understand, and it is very frustrating.

Hence my conclusion, it is better not to interact with you anymore. Because you lack the basic manners required for a discussion.