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[Goritoes]

F-35 is not just a fighter jet but a representation of NG Technologies & Systems, it not just about kill chain but complete military aviation cycle of 5th gen technologies, which began right from the start of manufacturing till its final use.

No country who do not have true 5th gen Technologies would fully benefit from any 5th gen jet in isolation, for 5th gen to work whole 5th gen system of systems are required to work, stealth, radar, EW, DATA link and manpower all have to be at 5th gen stage in terms of technology cycle.

As of now US is the ONLY country in this domain other are trying to achieve the same level of Technological parity, other than China no one look capable enough to achieve this parity.

So basically IAF buying F-35 without a proper 5th Generation structure to support will not change much on the ground ?

 

[jhungary]

Yes, the AIM-120 AMRAAM is a BVR radar guided missile carried by both the F-16 and F-35. However I'm sure it can see the F-16 better.

If the F-35 can get a lock for the AIM-120 on an F-16 before the F-16 can get a lock on the F-35 then naturally the F-35 is going to come out on top.

Another reason missiles are going to eventually need computer vision.

It's because F-16 would be painting the F-35 but it won't detect it at range, but the F-35 can see the F-16 painting it with its radar which mean theoretically, F-35 don't need to turn on their radar and use that ping to guide an ARMAAM on that F-16.

I think that is somewhere along the line why F-35 is in more advantage position when they are using the same missile.

Better ask @gambit to be sure

 

[Goritoes]

What are the chances of India actually buying a 5th generation any time soon? There are options are very limited.

Which country will they acquire 5th gen fighter from?

US? Is the US willing to sell the F-35 knowing how close Russia-India relations are? The US was not even willing to export F-35 to KSA.

China? They are both enemies as everybody. So no chance in hell for that to happen.

Russia? Is the SU-57 even a proper 5th generation? IAF was not impressed by the SU-57.. So chances again are low for India. Not to mention CAATSA.

They would have to wait till a Japanese or EU 5th generation fighter comes on the export market.

But I agree with you Pakistan should acquire 5th generation after J-31/J-35 comes for export.

Only thing that concerns me about the India is their Economy, their purchasing power is very strong and if sh!t hits the fan they can buy any top notch 5th Generation fighter.

Pakistan's options are limited, and besides F-16's PAF has no chance of getting F-35's or any other American fighter in the future, unless Pakistan discovers Ark of Covenant or massive Oil reserves or America find some interests in the region besides containing China or Afghanistan.

I doubt IAF will go for Su-57's for now I think they will keep adding Rafale's in numbers. If their Teja bhai becomes a mature platform that will replace the old Mig-21's and Mirage, but they are still buckling up for AMCA and it will be interesting to see which route they will take. Any American product will check mate PAF, but Also means that Americans will do their best to keep Russians off their products, and also risk future Programs/deals with Russians.

I think India selected the best fighter, which is Rafale and they can buy it for all purposes as for their navy/air force and Rafale is no joke, Pakistan will have tough time against them once they (IAF Pilots) are mature on the jet.

It's because F-16 would be painting the F-35 but it won't detect it at range, but the F-35 can see the F-16 painting it with its radar which mean theoretically, F-35 don't need to turn on their radar and use that ping to guide an ARMAAM on that F-16.

Kinda reminds me of I think it was Gambit who once said that F-22 Raptor whole body work as a Radar, I don't know how true that is, and makes me wonder if similar tech was used on F-35's ? If what you say about F-35's not needing to turn on their Radars than I wonder how on earth F-16 will detect them or see them ? Forget about locking on to anything because F-16's radar won't even see anything.

 

[gambit]

The AMRAAM missile have a datalink to the parent launch platform. Now, the reason I did not say 'airplane' is because the AMRAAM can be launched by other non-aviation platforms, ie US Army SL-AMRAAM.

Anyway...

AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM)

The Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile AMRAAM AIM-120 program provides for the acquisition and upgrade of the most advanced all-weather, all-environment medium range air-to-air missile system in response to United States Air Force, United States Navy, North Atlantic Treaty Organization...

apps.dtic.mil

The Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile AMRAAM AIM-120 program provides for the acquisition and upgrade of the most advanced all-weather, all-environment medium range air-to-air missile system in response to United States Air Force, United States Navy, North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and other Allied operational requirements through 2024. Designed to replace the AIM-7 Sparrow, the system is an active radar guided intercept missile with inherent Electronic Protection capabilities for air-to-air applications against massed penetration aircraft. The AIM-120D, currently in production, provides improved accuracy via Global Positioning System aided navigation, improved network compatibility, and enhanced aircrew survivability via a two-way datalink capability. The AIM-120D reached IOC for the United States Air Force and Navy in 2015.​

Radar returns or echoes is one form of target data. Datalinks is another form of target data. The analogy is that of the driver guiding the car using his own perceptions, mainly visual. Datalink is akin to a blind driver hearing instructions on which directions to steer and how much to steer.

In the case of the AMRAAM, the missile does not need to 'hear' how much to steer. It has its own navigation package and knows where it is at all time. All it needs to know is where is the target as the target changes. So the parent launcher via datalinks just need to tell the missile those target changes and the missile will make its own changes. As long as the F-35 have that datalink to the missile, radar returns are not needed. Where does the F-35 get that target data? That tactical information is not confirmed, of course. Transmitting radars means you can be detected. But quietly whispering encrypted target information to the missile and let it do its thing is something else.

 

[HRK]

So basically IAF buying F-35 without a proper 5th Generation structure to support will not change much on the ground ?

Not much in term of capabilities which F-35 poses but could not be exploited to its true potaintial due to the lack of other 5 gen technologies in support of its operations. But even as a stand alone system it will be obviously better than any 4th or 4th plus jet operating without heavy support of AWE&C & EW.

 

[Sam6536]

Russia? Is the SU-57 even a proper 5th generation? IAF was not impressed by the SU-57.. So chances again are low for India. Not to mention CAATSA.

SU 35 is a 4.5 generation plane, it's noticeable on radar. CAATSA is not a concern for India but India has already said they won't go for SU35 back in 2018.
The program was a huge debacle with Russia relying on India for most of the funds and not giving much in return. The program lacked Indian specific improvements that were requested by IAF, it wasn't exactly a 5th gen fighter and the slow development overall of the program.
The co-development meant both India and Russia buying the plane in large numbers but Russia didn't make any positive comments in this regard as they were under US sanctions and couldn't afford to induct the plan in large numbers as India wanted.
Russia's Uralvagonzavod was in dire straits and India's huge order of T90s tanks was what extended a lifeline to this Russian factory, basically Russia expects India to buy a large quantity of planes from the joint project which would bring money and give employment to Russians.
They weren't even ready to give us core tech in the program. India at that decided it was better to opt for a local program then get stuck in a foreign purchase debacle like su30mki which was very costly plus Russian TOT was not as agreed upon. India doesn't want to just assemble stuff here we learned a lot about a plane's development and moved beyond assembling after su30mki program. Better to let indigenous stuff mature and procure foreign stuff only when absolutely necessary.