how the US invasion transformed Iraq from a secular westernized advanced country into a theocracy

[ayesha.a]

We removed the dictator, so what do you propose to replace him ? By the way, we removed Saddam Hussein to prevent Iraq from being a nuclear weapons state, not to bring democracy to Iraq. I guess news are slow to get to India ?

A lie that was exposed thoroughly. There were no nukes or WMDs in Iraq.

You removed a dictator and the entire governing structure, and created a power vacuum. Look what that has led to, not to mention hundreds of thousands of people dead.

You could respond to the content of the post without taking digs at India. But that's your prerogative, of course.

 

[gambit]

A lie that was exposed thoroughly. There were no nukes or WMDs in Iraq.

Being wrong does not constitute a lie. Otherwise, literally ALL of us on this world would be liars, correct ?

But let us examine the charge that the US 'lied' about WMD in Iraq...

First...Did you know that by UN intent, the entire WMD inspection regime was designed so that no Americans could be the teams' leaders ? I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that you did not. But do not feel too bad, your ignorance about this crucial aspect of the argument is understandable given your eagerness to make up your mind about US.

There were two teams: UNSCOM and UNMOVIC. Their leaders were: Richard Butler (Australia), Hans Blix (Sweden), and Rolf Ekeus (Sweden). Americans could be various team members such as inspectors or engineers, but not team leaders.

So there goes the charge that the US 'lied' about WMD in Iraq.

Second...The teams were supported by advisory bodies that were international in makeup. Take UNMOVIC, for example...

UNMOVIC - [ College of Commissioners ]

Note that there was only one American on that body -- Robert Witajewski (United States). Each member of this body was supported by his own respective country of technical experts.

So now the conspiracy to 'lie' about WMD in Iraq was international in scope and involved at least hundreds, if not thousands, of people ?

Third...The teams' reports were sent directly to the UN Security Council and the Office of the Secretary General, which at that time of Kofi Annan. That means everyone saw the same set of data, same set of opinions, and same set of speculations on what was going on in Iraq.

So now the conspiracy to 'lie' about WMD in Iraq involved the Office of the Secretary General itself ?

You removed a dictator and the entire governing structure, and created a power vacuum. Look what that has led to, not to mention hundreds of thousands of people dead.

Explain to me what we could have replaced.

You could respond to the content of the post without taking digs at India. But that's your prerogative, of course.

Yes, it is mine. It is fine for you to jab at US, but not fine for Americans to use your country for comparison ? What could your India have done ?

 

[[Bregs]]

which ever country US goes into the end result is Iraq, Afghanistan. they have messed around whole world

 

[Manindra]

Advanced in what?.

many mistakes like the war against kurds the war against Iran and the invasion.

When you insist to stand against a big power then you should never ever let them have the first strike you should never let your army slain he ordered the army to withdrew from kuwait while the army was under constant attack all that to keep his power I spit on his grave the coward that made Iraq in chaos and civil war for only god knows.

That isn't fable that is true we Iraqis and we know them well.
Baathis behind most of the killing in Iraq they use extremists to do what they can't do and they use them as a name to hide their crimes behind them you don't know what's going on that's fine but don't make yourself a fool spread their propaganda.

my user name refer to a freedom fighter in our history.


How they did the same mistake please elaborate.


Why don't you show some respect to the Iraqis?.....But what would we expect from a guy loyal to Gadhafi!!!! why didn't you stay with your Gadhafi why you still in India doing what?.

Discrimination of Sunnis & Bow down against against Shia hardliners who wants to take revenge of their old suffering from the hand of Sunnis.

 

[macnurv]

Being wrong does not constitute a lie. Otherwise, literally ALL of us on this world would be liars, correct ?

Oh I see, so Powell was wrong about WMD's so was The September dossier and claim to Saddam will have chemical weapons ready in 45 minutes was a wrong statement not a lie.
Bush, Chenny, Blair and all other neo-cons made the whole war up intentionally, hence were liars. But hey what the heck you're just an apologists who won't accept the current mess in Iraq is created thanks to US of A destroying Iraq and its society.

 

[gambit]

Oh I see, so Powell was wrong about WMD's so was The September dossier and claim to Saddam will have chemical weapons ready in 45 minutes was a wrong statement not a lie.
Bush, Chenny, Blair and all other neo-cons made the whole war up intentionally, hence were liars. But hey what the heck you're just an apologists who won't accept the current mess in Iraq is created thanks to US of A destroying Iraq and its society.

Unless you can prove EVERYTHING in post 78 is factually incorrect...

 

[macnurv]

Unless you can prove EVERYTHING in post 78 is factually incorrect...

Says you, someone who is an apologist and still insists US invasion was out of good heart. Yeah right!

 

[srshkmr]

Does not matter. Doubts were created and entrenched. Keep in mind the second invasion was after a decade of constant low level conflict with Saddam Hussein.

Bottom line for despots: Stay inside your borders.

Bottom Line for Democracy : Stay inside America

 

[gambit]

Says you, someone who is an apologist and still insists US invasion was out of good heart. Yeah right!

Never said it was out of 'good heart'. But of course, since you failed to debate on points relevant to the argument, as outlined in my post 78, you have no choice but to resort to hyperboles.

The Greatest Threat: Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and the Crisis of Global Security: Richard Butler: 9781586480394: Amazon.com: Books

Remember, Richard Butler was the team leader for UNSCOM.

Amazon.com: The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind (9780471741275): Mahdi Obeidi: Books

Mahdi Obeidi was Saddam Hussein's chief nuclear scientist.

I have both books on my shelf.

Butler's opinion was that the ME have no business in being nuclear weapons states. The peoples' leaderships were and still are immature, uncaring about the potential horror they seek to possess.

Obeidi's opinion, which was essentially one of the 'insider' status, was the same. The word 'bomb' in his memoir did not refer to an actual nuclear weapon, or radiological device, or even a prototype of either type. What Saddam Hussein ordered Obeidi to bury in Obeidi's home garden were components for nuclear centrifuges.

http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/fuelcycle/centrifuges/centrifuge.html

In the epilogue, Obeidi flat out stated that it was good that the US removed Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.

You have two men who are far more experienced in the field of nuclear science than you will ever learn, kid, and they came at the issue from different directions and privy to information that you will never know. Butler did not ask for a military style removal of the likes of Saddam Hussein, but he pretty much implied it by saying the ME have no business possessing nuclear weapons. Obeidi did not implied, he approved.

Finally, if you think that the initials 'WMD' means only functional nuclear weapons, then you should STFU about this subject. The UN website is available for you public consumption but I guess you are too stupid and lazy to make use of it. The initials 'WMD' contains not just functional nuclear weapons, but prototypes, people, programs, and materials. To date, the best way to verify that an indigenous nuclear weapons program is a success is to actually detonate a nuclear explosive device BEFORE turning it into a packaged and mobile weapon. That is what India and Pakistan did -- clandestinely. Iraq never detonated anything nuclear. So if the initials 'WMD' means only functional nuclear weapons, then the entire inspection regime was immoral from the start.

Are you learning anything ?

Bottom Line for Democracy : Stay inside America

Best way for dictatorships to remain dictatorships is to remain inside their borders. Then you would not have to deal with democracy.

 

[macnurv]

Never said it was out of 'good heart'. But of course, since you failed to debate on points relevant to the argument, as outlined in my post 78, you have no choice but to resort to hyperboles.

The Greatest Threat: Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and the Crisis of Global Security: Richard Butler: 9781586480394: Amazon.com: Books

Remember, Richard Butler was the team leader for UNSCOM.

Amazon.com: The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind (9780471741275): Mahdi Obeidi: Books

Mahdi Obeidi was Saddam Hussein's chief nuclear scientist.

I have both books on my shelf.

Butler's opinion was that the ME have no business in being nuclear weapons states. The peoples' leaderships were and still are immature, uncaring about the potential horror they seek to possess.

Obeidi's opinion, which was essentially one of the 'insider' status, was the same. The word 'bomb' in his memoir did not refer to an actual nuclear weapon, or radiological device, or even a prototype of either type. What Saddam Hussein ordered Obeidi to bury in Obeidi's home garden were components for nuclear centrifuges.

http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/fuelcycle/centrifuges/centrifuge.html

In the epilogue, Obeidi flat out stated that it was good that the US removed Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq.

You have two men who are far more experienced in the field of nuclear science than you will ever learn, kid, and they came at the issue from different directions and privy to information that you will never know. Butler did not ask for a military style removal of the likes of Saddam Hussein, but he pretty much implied it by saying the ME have no business possessing nuclear weapons. Obeidi did not implied, he approved.

Finally, if you think that the initials 'WMD' means only functional nuclear weapons, then you should STFU about this subject. The UN website is available for you public consumption but I guess you are too stupid and lazy to make use of it. The initials 'WMD' contains not just functional nuclear weapons, but prototypes, people, programs, and materials. To date, the best way to verify that an indigenous nuclear weapons program is a success is to actually detonate a nuclear explosive device BEFORE turning it into a packaged and mobile weapon. That is what India and Pakistan did -- clandestinely. Iraq never detonated anything nuclear. So if the initials 'WMD' means only functional nuclear weapons, then the entire inspection regime was immoral from the start.

Are you learning anything ?


Best way for dictatorships to remain dictatorships is to remain inside their borders. Then you would not have to deal with democracy.

My refusal to debate about the so called merits of Iraq are not that there is lack of proof, but its proven beyond shadow of any doubt it was a war fought based on a catastrophic lie because the Neo-cons wanted it. Debating on that war would be same to debating Earth does not revolve around sun, but sun revolves around earth. There is no hidden truth, no matter how you spin it.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Discrimination of Sunnis & Bow down against against Shia hardliners who wants to take revenge of their old suffering from the hand of Sunnis.

Sir. where did you brought these info from please I care to know thanks.

 

[jamahir]

Guys please read this thread

https://defence.pk/threads/united-states-support-for-saddam-during-the-iran–iraq-war.383402/

khomenei government collaborating with israel military during the same war ( Key Saddam deputy and top militant leader al-Douri killed in Iraq | Page 2 ).

and remember "iran-contra affair" ??

Their leaders were: Richard Butler (Australia)

richard butler's people in iraq were caught spying for cia.

Third...The teams' reports were sent directly to the UN Security Council and the Office of the Secretary General, which at that time of Kofi Annan.

ah, old man kofi... he and ban ki moon were/are the most slavish-to-white-house general secretaries ever.

 

[Manindra]

Sir. where did you brought these info from please I care to know thanks.

Iraqi Sunnis stage protests against 'discrimination' - BBC News
In Baghdad, middle-class Sunnis say they prefer militants to Maliki - The Washington Post
Shias dominate Sunnis in the new Iraq - World - CBC News
In Their Own Words: Sunnis on Their Treatment in Maliki’s Iraq | The Rise of ISIS | FRONTLINE | PBS
Maliki's Actions Continue to Antagonize Iraqi Sunnis | Middle East Policy Council

 

[Aramagedon]

khomenei government collaborating with israel military during the same war ( Key Saddam deputy and top militant leader al-Douri killed in Iraq | Page 2 ).

BS

 

[jamahir]

BS

no, it is history... did you read that post ??