How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

[ghazi768]

No, the ideal weapon is an ARM.

 

[SQ8]

No, the ideal weapon is an ARM.

With that sort of range and speed.
Allied Signals had a program called sea snake using the Rim-8 as base for a hypersonic ARM.

 

[Quwa]

The Chinese CM-302 or CX-1 would be a good start. Ideally, we could buy them in numbers and have them integrated to the JF-17s as well as dispersed with shoot-and-scoot ground launchers and fast attack crafts.

One other solution would be to work with China (or someone else) on a CBU-105-like weapon, but on a long-range ALCM. Basically, use that to disperse guided bomblets across an area and try hitting some parts of a S-400 system.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The option can be looked at in 3 years or so if the government performs correctly.

On the topic the ideal weapon against the S-400 is the Brahmos.

Do you mean EFT is still an option on table ?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Chinese CM-302 or CX-1 would be a good start. Ideally, we could buy them in numbers and have them integrated to the JF-17s as well as dispersed with shoot-and-scoot ground launchers and fast attack crafts.

One other solution would be to work with China (or someone else) on a CBU-105-like weapon, but on a long-range ALCM. Basically, use that to disperse guided bomblets across an area and try hitting some parts of a S-400 system.

ASELSAN KORAL may be a good starting point to find the location of S-400 itself based on the signal it transmits!!! And, then go for the attack with super/hyper-sonic staffs coupled with jamming/deception!!! Hunter gets hunted....

General Features of KORAL Radar Electronic Support System
• Modular System Design • Multi Receiver Architecture for wide instantaneous bandwidth and high sensitivity • Wide Frequency and Spatial Coverage for high Probability of intercept • High Parameter Measurement Accuracy in both frequency domain and time domain parameters (RF, PRI, PW, DOA) • Handling Both Traditional and Emerging Threat Signals • Automatic Identification of Threats using internal Threat Library • Fast System Response for detection using wideband receivers • Operation within a Dense and high PRF and CW environment • High Precision Direction Finding using both amplitude comparison and spinning antenna DF methods • Position Fixing with high CEP using Multi-platforms

General Features of KORAL Radar Electronic Attack System
• Modular System Design • Integrated Digital Receiver, Technique Generator and Digital RF Memory Architecture • Fast Beam Steering via Phased Array Antenna System • High Output Power • Multiple Solid State Amplifiers • Wide Frequency and Spatial Coverage • High Parameter Measurement Accuracy • Handling Both Traditional and Emerging Threat Signals • Automatic Jamming of Threats using internal Technique Library • Multiple Jamming and Deception Techniques • Fast System Response and for jamming using fast beam steering phased array units

 

[ziaulislam]

The Chinese CM-302 or CX-1 would be a good start. Ideally, we could buy them in numbers and have them integrated to the JF-17s as well as dispersed with shoot-and-scoot ground launchers and fast attack crafts.

One other solution would be to work with China (or someone else) on a CBU-105-like weapon, but on a long-range ALCM. Basically, use that to disperse guided bomblets across an area and try hitting some parts of a S-400 system.

What about decoys systems like what lockheed Martin is developing ..without identifications it wouldnt be easy to destroy the launchers

 

[Quwa]

What about decoys systems like what lockheed Martin is developing ..without identifications it wouldnt be easy to destroy the launchers

Depends on the decoy. The ones the US is making seems to take a lot from machine learning and AI - i.e. these are autonomously flying drones (no remote operator). I can confirm that in Pakistan, there's some very, very basic work on autonomous flight, but not at the level of the US where actual decoys are possible.

 

[ziaulislam]

Depends on the decoy. The ones the US is making seems to take a lot from machine learning and AI - i.e. these are autonomously flying drones (no remote operator). I can confirm that in Pakistan, there's some very, very basic work on autonomous flight, but not at the level of the US where actual decoys are possible.

Jamming and decoys are probably the only solution in net centric war fare these days..as individual launchers will be very difficult to identify

 

[ghazi768]

With that sort of range and speed.
Allied Signals had a program called sea snake using the Rim-8 as base for a hypersonic ARM.

The newest AD complexes are geared for shoot and scoot, not different from older medium range systems such as SAM-6 but are better in every term in this department. How much training will impact this is unknown but studies show that it does impact effective employment of shoot and scoot tactics. Longer range SOWs especially cruise missile may not be effective against such mobile ADs which are also good at employing such tactics, they still need a lot of planning and programming before actual operations.

When it comes to SEAD/DEAD, you do not operate at the limit of AD missile's range.. especially those components of team which are tasked with launching the stand off weapons..
In terms of s400 or any other long/medium range AD system, I think what is important in countering them is capabilities of your command and surveillance platform (in air) and capabilities of actual RWR in the fighter platform and the ARM you are going to use.

 

[SQ8]

The newest AD complexes are geared for shoot and scoot, not different from older medium range systems such as SAM-6 but are better in every term in this department. How much training will impact this is unknown but studies show that it does impact effective employment of shoot and scoot tactics. Longer range SOWs especially cruise missile may not be effective against such mobile ADs which are also good at employing such tactics, they still need a lot of planning and programming before actual operations.

When it comes to SEAD/DEAD, you do not operate at the limit of AD missile's range.. especially those components of team which are tasked with launching the stand off weapons..
In terms of s400 or any other long/medium range AD system, I think what is important in countering them is capabilities of your command and surveillance platform (in air) and capabilities of actual RWR in the fighter platform and the ARM you are going to use.

SEAD will be closer in but as such the range of the S-400 demands a more assymetric approach. I doubt the Indians will plan much mobility for the S-400 as they have prepared sites for it. Maybe if they have prior intelligence of the attack.
However, spyder sams will be mobile and used along whatevr approaches our aircraft take. Where there are weak SAMs they will have strong air cover.
What matters then is using similar tactics as they do by going parallel to the IB in tracks or using dogleg approaches to targets.

 

[Storm Force]

The are lots of options to deal with S400.and rrafale threat

You just need a shed load of money to acquire them.

Smart rich nations react quickly and decisively .

I don't see that in this scenario

You are very limited in your movement and options

In my mind any nations thst can field fifth generation fighters with long range stealth cruise missile and fifth generation aesa radars can potentially evade and even locate albeit less likely as they are mobile and destroy the cover.

In my mind Pakistan is along way from having such options

 

[ghazi768]

SEAD will be closer in but as such the range of the S-400 demands a more assymetric approach. I doubt the Indians will plan much mobility for the S-400 as they have prepared sites for it. Maybe if they have prior intelligence of the attack.
However, spyder sams will be mobile and used along whatevr approaches our aircraft take. Where there are weak SAMs they will have strong air cover.
What matters then is using similar tactics as they do by going parallel to the IB in tracks or using dogleg approaches to targets.

Depending upon deployment of its radar assets, the longer end of S-400 range is useful only against higher altitude approaches.

yes, I agree with you, s-400 will have prepared positions as well. It basically will be used for strategic air-defence for targets in and around Delhi and other locations. Frankly, if PAF ever gets in the position of doing SEAD/DEAD operations against air-defences at such locations than IAF would have already lost the air war.

In case they use them more in a tactical orientation, more closer to border than that will be a golden opportunity which I do not think PAF will want to miss.

 

[GumNaam]

S400 is so NOT a worry for us. uncle sam slapped moscow repeatedly by jamming it over n over again (guess was payback for the Russians jamming uncle sam's navy destroyers). And China has the S400s in possession now. By the time india gets them, we'll already be able to jam them. It'll be piece of junk that's dead on arrival.

 

[randomradio]

Depending upon deployment of its radar assets, the longer end of S-400 range is useful only against higher altitude approaches.

Not true. The target's minimum altitude is 5-10m for both the long range missiles.

The 40N6 in particular has its own active seeker, so it has no problems attacking targets that the radar itself cannot see.

 

[Falcon26]

Not true. The target's minimum altitude is 5-10m for both the long range missiles.

The 40N6 in particular has its own active seeker, so it has no problems attacking targets that the radar itself cannot see.

ANy confirmation India is getting the 40N6? Please provide credible links if so.