What's new

How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

You live in your fantasy.. basically you are saying S 400 can be taken out but not that so called missile.. great .. lol
That show how low IQ you have , this one line post prove how stupid you are !!!!!!! Read again , Let me put it in simple words …. If S-400 miss one missile , then that system will be dead ,or, even if S-400 shoot them all in the sky still you will run out of Missiles ………
Gaznavi is fast and , maneuverable (can preform some tricks) only thing if we can make them cheaper then S-400 missile , and in numbers .

500 Km Range Gaznavi on Truck with multi launch tubes can make it hard for India to bring the S-400 near border or even in Range of Gaznavi .
 
.
Or

Or j31 stealth jet which Chinese are gonna sell and they already have s400 so know it's weak points ;)


The radar can tell the speed and size of India intruder not it's value we can fire low cost solid rocket power drones with right angulation on surface there would generate a much bigger radar signature then their actual size drone swarm is a real problem for air defense it's just that for past several years since drone tech evolved there was no conflict between near peers

A modern radar system would have a threat library it can use to distinguish threats. Yes, it is possible to confuse such a library. But consider this scenario:

1. You lack the equivalent of S-400.
2. You are vulnerable to a quick, surprise aerial attack that uses jamming, EW, and saturation to take down your air defences.
3. The attack is launched from deep inside Indian territory.
4. Instead of quickly responding to the threat, you will be tied up circumventing the Indian air defences.

In a modern war, reaction time is important and with this acquisition India has placed obstacles to quick reaction by PAF.
 
. .
Most drones are flying for hours in many Armies specially Drone for surveillance purpose they are also attaching solar panel on wings.

Yes American drones or others do have day long endurance.. but don't forget their size.. you are talking micro not even mini drones... of please cut the crap about solar panels...
 
. . .
You mean Pakistani 500 Km-Range Gaznavi missiles on Truck can combat S400 Missiles ??


 
.
A modern radar system would have a threat library it can use to distinguish threats. Yes, it is possible to confuse such a library. But consider this scenario:

1. You lack the equivalent of S-400.
2. You are vulnerable to a quick, surprise aerial attack that uses jamming, EW, and saturation to take down your air defences.
3. The attack is launched from deep inside Indian territory.
4. Instead of quickly responding to the threat, you will be tied up circumventing the Indian air defences.

In a modern war, reaction time is important and with this acquisition India has placed obstacles to quick reaction by PAF.
U r talking about the s400 which in real war of Syria failed miserably in Syria and coico not intercept a single jet or missile nor deter opponents from striking deep inside :)
 
.
Russian systems such as the S-400 are potent no doubt, but too often overadvertised. The way Israel is making mincemeat out of Arab S-300 & Pantsir-S weapons in Syria makes it clear that these systems are over-exaggerated. Israel has neutralized Syrian S-300 & Pantsir through standoff cruise missiles and electronic jammings. Pakistan should draw lessons from the Israeli experience.

I remember when Indians on this forum and elsewhere used to oversell the S-300 and making the same claims they now make of the S-400. With proper preparations and trainings, Pakistan can remove them out of the equation early on in any conflict. This is made easier when China deploys the same weapons and can afford Pakistan the opportunity to train over and over again till tactics are perfected.

Israel makes a living selling avionics and electronic warfare equipment. Their biggest customer is ironically India.
Pakistani expertise in such equipment is non-existent. China can help to a certain degree
 
.
A modern radar system would have a threat library it can use to distinguish threats. Yes, it is possible to confuse such a library. But consider this scenario:

1. You lack the equivalent of S-400.
2. You are vulnerable to a quick, surprise aerial attack that uses jamming, EW, and saturation to take down your air defences.
3. The attack is launched from deep inside Indian territory.
4. Instead of quickly responding to the threat, you will be tied up circumventing the Indian air defences.

In a modern war, reaction time is important and with this acquisition India has placed obstacles to quick reaction by PAF.
Besides as I said by adjusting the angles on surface u can make the signal bounce off much bigger for it's size so u can make the small drone give the same singnature as that of jf17 basic physics
A tiny few inch chaff strip bounces the same signal as that of a jet fighter due to surface design Google ;)

Israel makes a living selling avionics and electronic warfare equipment. Their biggest customer is ironically India.
Pakistani expertise in such equipment is non-existent. China can help to a certain degree
But turkey has Lot of experience in this tech and we r cooperating alot deary ;)
 
.
This article adds nothing new to the discussion. Key facts:

1. Indian air defence is multi-layered. Low cost solutions such as anti-aircraft guns and small range missiles for low value targets, high cost solutions for high value targets.

2. In a cold start scenario, time will be of essence. In the absence of equally respectable air defence, PAF will be tied up countering the S-400 while Indian stand-off weapons wreak havoc on Pakistani high value targets.

3. And finally, what I already said earlier: Ababeel is a solution of last resort. Once a ballistic missile is fired, all bets are off. India retains the full right to retaliate with massive nuclear strike in response to any incoming ballistic missile.

4. In the light of 1 - 3 above, it becomes easy for India to call Pakistan's nuclear bluff. That is NOT a situation we want to be in. Or, if we want to be in that situation, we need a Chief Marshal Law Administrator such as Zia ul Haq. Even Musharraf was a Western puppet. Do we have the balls to do the needful when the time comes? I don't think so.



well-- it dont bother me a bit-- who has what
and cant defend well because of this tecn-or that missile.

If it is your time, death will track you down like a cruise missile.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/lynda_barry_163117?src=t_missile
 
.
Interesting insight but is S-400 not the bees knees of these type of platforms? As things appear Pakistan is pretty well stuck between a rock and hard place. But your right about Chinese having them. It would offer a opportunity to see if the system has cracks which can be exploited.

Not just China, even Turkey will have them. This means even PAF F-16s get to practice against them. Despite the problems it poses, there’s not a single weapon in India’s arsenal that allows Pakistan this level of exploitation as the S-400. The big question is whether the PAF will avail the opportunities presented?

For Barak-8 and Spyder, Pakistan has comparable weapons in Spada-2000 FM-90, upgraded Crotales and HQ-16. In the future, it can deploy Hisar-A & Hisar-0 and the upcoming Turkish Long Range SAM.

In March 2017, General David Perkins of the U.S army bragged in a military symposiumabout the success which one of the “close U.S ally” had in shooting down a $200 dollar, purportedly hostile, quadcopter with the U.S made PATRIOT missile defense system. He did not name the particular country nor went into further specifics of the incident. But the mention itself, that a $200 worth toy grade drone was shot with a $3 million missile, was enough to raise a key question about the economic exchange disparity, which apparently provided a solution to penetrate through the highly-sophisticated Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Systems such as the PATRIOT PAC-3 itself.

Terminal High Altitude Air Defense System (THAAD), PATRIOT PAC-3 and Aegis Naval System are the high-tech sophisticated systems which have a great success rate of intercepting a short-to-intermediate range projectile while on the other hand, Russia has S-400 and S-500 systems, as competitive as the U.S ones. The balance in South Asia was disturbed when India announced last month that it was going ahead to buy S-400 defense system in a deal worth $5 billion USD, despite the threat of U.S sanctions.

The development was particularly worrisome for Pakistan, a country which always has to follow the lead toward aggressive military ambitions of its foe India. Consequently, the opportunity cost is the economic and social growth of its people. Pakistan has never had the hostile or aggressive military policy to instigate the arms race with India for one simple reason; it cannot afford to do so by any means..


Why is Indian S-400 such a big deal?
Russian made S-400 system like any other ballistic missile defense system consists of a tracking, guidance and interception mechanism. A radar, which is the part of the assembly, tracks the incoming object which could either be a missile or an enemy aircraft within a range of 400 km and an altitude of 36 km, making it an endothermic defense module. After the flight path is analyzed, it fires its own missile which works on kinetic kill mechanism and neutralizes the incoming threat by colliding with it.



When Indian procurement of S-400 is juxtaposed with the 4++ generation Rafale jets it has ordered from France, it gives the country absolute air superiority over Pakistan. But Pakistan seems to have developed an economical response to India’s air cover which is most likely to make its impermeable airspace more penetrable even with such a high-end protective system.


MIRV – Pakistan’s Counter
The key technology which both USA and Russia were able to attain during the Cold War that ultimately forced them to sign an Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty was Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle or MIRV system. MIRV is basically a missile which has multiple missiles encapsulated in its pointed tip and upon re-entering the Earth’s atmosphere during its flight course, each missile leaves the body of the main frame and approaches its own target independently.


The ABM defense systems detect the incoming missile, which carries more missiles in its body, as a single target and launches a single interceptor to destroy it in the terminal phase of flight. With the ability to launch multiple warhead projectiles, MIRV drastically reduces the effectiveness of an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense system. In January 2017, Pakistan became the first country to successfully test a Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle system, ABABEEL, in South Asia. A feat which was confirmed by the Defense Intelligence Agency of the U.S military makes Pakistan the only state in South Asia so far to have this technology.

An ABM radar assembly can detect the income hostile object violating the airspace of the country, but it cannot simply tell the type and nature of the incoming threat. To reduce the risk of interception for the actual warhead, ABABEEL can successfully be used as a decoy to engage as many missiles S-400 shoots as possible. The exact statistics to depict the cost of each missile are not available, but a unit is expected to be around $0.8-1 million dollars. In this way, Pakistan can use its low yielding, low-cost conventional missiles to devour expensive S-400 interceptor missiles.


Pakistan is relying heavily on the tactical nuclear weapons which have a limited yield to respond to the “Cold Start Doctrine”, The Indian Army’s New Limited War Doctrine. But the use of tactical nuclear weapons is hindered in practicality by one of the crucial clauses of India’s Nuclear Doctrine which advocates “massive, broad scale and terrible” nuclear response in case of a nuclear attack. So far the possession of nuclear weapons has been a major deterrent to a large spectrum conflict between two countries but the induction of S-400 system has initiated yet another race to achieve ultimate superiority which could be used for coercion.

The Doctrine of Mutual Annihilation”, which prevented a nuclear escalation for decades during the cold war, could serve as the illustration for both India and Pakistan leading to 1972 like American-Soviet ABM treaty. However, it is only possible if Pakistan inducts an Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense System of its own which could match the sophistication of S-400, or else India will always have, at least, the psychological superiority of imperviousness.

India will not have any psychological advantage if Pakistan is able to follow China’s lead and inducts a credible Hypersonic missile or HGV in the next few years. A combination of training against the S-400, MIRV & hypersonic missiles will tilt the advantage in Pakistan’s favor.
 
.
U r talking about the s400 which in real war of Syria failed miserably in Syria and coico not intercept a single jet or missile nor deter opponents from striking deep inside :)

In Syria only the S-200 has failed. The S-300 was deployed only recently, and it is being seen as a very major development. Now here is the point: even if Israel eventually circumvents the S-300, there is no reason to believe that Pakistan would have the same level of technological prowess any time soon. So, yes, the S-400 remains a very big threat.

Besides as I said by adjusting the angles on surface u can make the signal bounce off much bigger for it's size so u can make the small drone give the same singnature as that of jf17 basic physics
A tiny few inch chaff strip bounces the same signal as that of a jet fighter due to surface design Google ;)

At this point, I advise you stop talking about things you don't understand.

But turkey has Lot of experience in this tech and we r cooperating alot deary ;)

Hopefully, with help from Turkey and China we will have some sort of workaround. But the whole point is that time will be of essence if India strikes. Will we have a solution that circumvents India's multi-layered air defence in a matter of seconds and allows us to retaliate? No! Such is the reality of modern air defence. Which is why, for the foreseeable future, our best response is to have an equivalent, adequate air defence.
 
.
Most of us know about latest S400 acquisition by India is certainly a game changer and our Army strategist must be planning to counter this. This hugely effect our attack capability in enemy deep land through Air.

The Answer which i came out is "Drone Swarm Technology" Already USA is working on it.

This is like killing Elephant with Ababeel and like Ibrahim A.S killed Namrood Big Army with swarm of Mosquitoes.

S400 downing one F16 or JF17 can be a big loss but S400 Missile downing a Drone is nothing.

So what you guys think about it??
the system is smart to distinguish between a real threat and a dummy. the system has the range well inside Pakistan it can shoot down the jets or rockets that are just launched
prevention is only pre-deployment. once they are deployed. its pretty much a checkmate to PAF

this system degrades our nuclear deterrence as well reducing the strike options to a small number
 
.
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom