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How Pakistan could effectively cripple Indian’s air force with rocket artillery, and what is needed.

I understand that, but the Phalcon is an extremely potent AWAC. IAF currently has 3 in service, not to mention IAF has potent ground radars such as Sword Fish in service. IAF was well aware that PAF would react as PM IK had made it clear that Pakistan has no choice but to react. If the Phalcons were not in the air 24/7, as they can be refueled as well, then that is utter incompetence on the part of IAF. This was not a platform problem but rather a planning problem.
I literally just shared that IAF cannot mount 24-hour AWAC surveillance over 2 points of interest. The radar is capable but the plane has very low availability rate. They need 1 more AWACS platform which they do not have at the moment. I cannot re-state if you insist on things being a planning problem.

When travelling at those speeds, handicap of 10-20km can be overcome. The SU30MKI's radars, electronics and avionics are still extremely potent and very relevant to this day. PAF F16's are Block 52's, not Block 70's and the SU30MKI's have a superior radar to that of the F16's. This was clearly superior employment and aggressive tactics on part of PAF. It is somewhat disappointing on part of the IAF as it has a decade more experience then the PAF in training for BVR sorties, but the tactics employed by the IAF were well short of what the expectation was. It was not too long ago that PAF was training to perfect its Anti BVR tactics and fight the IAF at a distance of 30-40km due to the BVR handicap.
I agree on one and disagree on another point. 30 kms is a big distance in BVR. It's not a question of speed, its a question of rushing in while the counter-party has already engaged with first lock first launch capability. What I agree with is the assertion that 30 kms is a handicap that can be overcome. The issue is that almost anything can be overcome at a cost. The question is what risks and costs are worth it and which ones are not. IAF judged that it was not worth it. I am not privy to their decision-making process nor of the information available to them to comment.

Let me give you an example, during Kargil war, IAF regularly locked on PAF fighters and kept bombing PA positions on the mountain and often crossed over the LoC, even hitting an ammo dump at one point. PAF fighters never engage. The answer is not that they could not overcome lack of BVR capability at the time, the question was that PAF at the time thought it was not worth the cost because of other reasons (expecting a broader war, cost in fighters to engage a BVR equipped force for preventing tactical strikes, etc.). Kaiser Tufail has elaborated on this.

I am not giving this example as a means of 'equalling the score' of any kind. Only to share that there are cost-benefit considerations that I am not privy to at this time. So, perhaps you are right, perhaps not. I don't have enough data to be as confidant as you. Which is not a bad thing, as it gives me another perspective to consider.

When any country has 200 nukes pointed towards your country, it is not a military threat but an existential threat.
You are free to decide the threat level you perceive for yourself, not to decide it for others. I can only say that the Indian Government does not share your view. Pakistan is not considered a military threat. It is considered militarily capable and capable of imposing high costs in war but not capable of winning a war against India.

Looking at the current balance of power, India is currently not equipped to fight a two front war. India can invest in resources that would allow it to deploy forces from one theater to another, but unfortunately both your fronts will be engaged.
I agree that India is not currently equipped to fight a two-front war. From the trends of consistently declining Indian defence budgets, I don't see that changing any time soon.

I apologise but your statements are close to sounding bombastic and don't seem backed by research, think tank, or policy statements about the Indo-Chinese relationship. Indian assessment of a two-front war is very clear. A war with Pakistan will not lead to China engaging, a war with China may lead to Pakistan engaging. A war with China is highly unlikely given other factors at play - military deterrence, economic costs, geopolitical costs among other factors. There is a reason why Indian defence budgets are declining. It is because a war with China is not expected in the short or medium term. Therefore, building capability for a two-front war is desirable but not critical at this time. Particularly as there are very pressing need of funds in developmental areas. There has been a major social and physical infrastructure push happening over the last 5 years and they are budget wreckers.
 
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never mind what I say, why don't you ask everyone else on the world who posted satellite pictures & said thar l that you failed! besides...your own fat cow shusma suwwaraj (may she be bbq's in hell) came out and admitted no one was killed in your misadventure.


yes, crows & kabootars both! :lol:
Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.
 
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Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.
Will you givw proof of your incineration bullshit???
 
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Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.
:lol: wow, that's some gobar the indian media fed ya, fresh outta thr cow's anus, yes? nice, warm & wet! CUZ THE REST OF THE WORLD SAYS THE INT THING YOU INCINERATED WAS YOUR OWN EGO! :lol:

and oOoOoOh, no Pakistani civilians or soldiers should be harmed, how nice of your mother yindia...so who exactly did you incinerate? MARTIANS?! :rofl:

yar kia cartoon log ho tum yar! :omghaha:

And no, the PAF retaliated 6 times over to defend across a message that you dared to cross into our message in the dead of the night so now you get raped in broad daylight.
 
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Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.

Apparently India has super duper incineration weapons which defy the laws of physics and can pierce small building killing everyone inside without an ounce of structural damage :D

Only a bunch of trees and a crow saw the might of Hindooostan while we showed our might to the whole world
 
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Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.

The proof is in the pudding. All the reports you're mentioning are horse sh** with absolutely no proof. The satellite photos speak another story, although you're welcome to prove us wrong but whatever proof the Indian side has presented can be officially classified as garbage.

https://thewire.in/security/balakot-airstrike-miss-satellite-imagery
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V

I personally think the IAF missed their targets on purpose. The intention was to demonstrate strength, satisfy the public anger and leave face for Pakistan to not retaliate. I don't think IAF factored that PAF would retaliate if IAF dropped bombs on an open field. Any dead bodies on Pak side, especially that of children in a Madrassah would have ensured PAF would retaliate with equal ferocity with the goal of equaling the body count. Thus, a smart move on part of IAF but they definitely didn't factor PAF's response.
 
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In Thamizh there's a saying about a cripple desiring the honey up on the high branch and dreaming about climbing the tree.
these nuts have never once come up with a clear mission, reasoned strategy or won anything ever. and they wax eloquent about taking on India.
 
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Intentionally, the payload that was used caused minimum structural damage. It pierced the roof and then detonated inside the building causing a large splash damage and incinerating everyone who was present there. IAF has promised that next time they will also take out the structure to leave no room for doubt. If really only some trees were harmed, your air force would not try so hard to avenge their pride.

Sushma Swaraj said that Indian military was given strict instructions that no Pakistani civilian or soldier must be harmed. However, according to some reports, there were a few army people present among with the jihadis. It was unavoidable incidental damage.
Even a single RPG 7 impact is enough to take down a building....I mean this is ridiculous....This is not india where you can lie....But in reality on the next day PAF premier attack bring the shit out of you.
 
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In Thamizh there's a saying about a cripple desiring the honey up on the high branch and dreaming about climbing the tree.
these nuts have never once come up with a clear mission, reasoned strategy or won anything ever. and they wax eloquent about taking on India.

Kashmir and Punjab are occupied by India not a part of. Time doesnt change that

Even a single RPG 7 impact is enough to take down a building....I mean this is ridiculous....This is not india where you can lie....But in reality on the next day PAF premier attack bring the shit out of you.

The warhead of the Popeye is 750+ lbs :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popeye_(missile)

As well as with the impact it could have destroyed even large structures let alone a few small maddrassah buildings lool

Hindooostani lies dont match up in the face of facts and reality. There whole media lives on lala land and feeds off the Nazi regimes liess. There media has used PAF exsersise videos to show IAF strikes in pakistan :D they tried to claim the mig-21 engine was an F-16 engine they shot down... claimed no pilot was in Pak custody until his face was shown drinking tee..

Lies lies lies all just shameful lies
 
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The proof is in the pudding. All the reports you're mentioning are horse sh** with absolutely no proof. The satellite photos speak another story, although you're welcome to prove us wrong but whatever proof the Indian side has presented can be officially classified as garbage.

https://thewire.in/security/balakot-airstrike-miss-satellite-imagery
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...standing-at-indian-bombing-site-idUSKCN1QN00V

I personally think the IAF missed their targets on purpose. The intention was to demonstrate strength, satisfy the public anger and leave face for Pakistan to not retaliate. I don't think IAF factored that PAF would retaliate if IAF dropped bombs on an open field. Any dead bodies on Pak side, especially that of children in a Madrassah would have ensured PAF would retaliate with equal ferocity with the goal of equaling the body count. Thus, a smart move on part of IAF but they definitely didn't factor PAF's response.
All this would make sense if Pakistan army/ISI did not stop people from visiting the alleged Madarassa on Feb 27 and for quite some time afterwards.
 
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All this would make sense if Pakistan army/ISI did not stop people from visiting the alleged Madarassa on Feb 27 and for quite some time afterwards.
These satellite images not paint job by your mighty/Vedic IAF to prove We (shot down) PAF's F-16 on 27 FEB and in the very next day weather is bad, There was proofs on the very next day, BBC reporter went their and quoted the Madarasa is still intact and you bombs fell through few hundred meter away from the target, and locals of the take snap of pictures of the building after few hours of incident and share it on twitter and face book, this showed you missed the target completely
 
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This writing is my short opinion, and research based article for the Best Writer completion. I don't expect to win, and that was not my complete goal here I am just trying to give my opinion on a underutilized strategic weapon. This is my first real article here that I gave a good effort on so go easy on me please.


Long range multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) are somewhat underappreciated systems that can be used effectively in a suppressive role and are a much cheaper alternative then cruise missiles yet allow much more payload delivered on target. Pakistan could in theory use rocket artillery with ranges varying from 100 to 400km acquired from nations that are recent suppliers of Pakistan that produce these systems namely, Turkey, and China.[1][2] Assuming Pakistan could use its MLRS in an offensive role like how America used its Tomahawk cruise missiles in the early stages of the Iraq war, and more recently in the April 2017 strikes on Syrian airbases thereby rendering roughly 20% of the Syrian air force destroyed. [3]


Currently Pakistan has A-100 which lacks range, and accuracy to hit more then a few airbases without coming very close to the LOC and within striking range of well-placed strikes. I have taken the liberty of making a map of the Western Air Command to the best of my knowledge with public sources with the range of the A-100 overlapped. As you can see at most Pakistan can take out a few airbases with concentrated strikes of 50+ rockets absolutely decimating targets with a large 200kg fragmentation warhead that will decimate aircraft runways and allow PAF aircraft to destroy the aircraft on the ground.[4]

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One solution to this problem would be Pakistan acquiring longer range MLRS such as the A300 manufactured by China and currently used by the PLA army. The A-300 has a maximum range of 290 kilometers, a 150kg warhead roughly 1/3 the explosives of the Tomahawk and is not bound by MTCR rules which China follows.[5] This range would allow destruction, or a significant disruption in operation of airbases which would allow Pakistani fighters to operate much more easily inside of India without a major fighter threat for at least a few weeks as India is forced to make new airbases and operate further inside of India. I have again taken the liberty of making a map with the A300 launched from or near Lahore overlain over Indian airbases. As is evident, only about five bases would survive assuming a success rate of 100%, this scenario is only about the Western air command, but it can be applied to the South Western Air command as well. The other five airbases could be taken out by cruise missiles in Pakistani service such as the Babur.[6]

a300_l1.jpg


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@Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch @WebMaster @WAJsal @Horus

It depends on how many MRLS Pakistan has and how many rocket rounds they can sustain.
 
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It depends on how many MRLS Pakistan has and how many rocket rounds they can sustain.
I agree, it would need large purchases of probably at least 200 systems with 8 rockets each and of course supporting systems.

I expect it would cost at least 3 billion which could be offset with local production.
 
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I agree, it would need large purchases of probably at least 200 systems with 8 rockets each and of course supporting systems.

I expect it would cost at least 3 billion which could be offset with local production.

it is not just the 200 systems but also the supply of rockets
 
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