How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Mav3rick]

How did they Fly? There is a lot of stuff on the subject in the newspapers and magazines about this airplane. There's a great video on youtube, where somebody shows the F-22 flying its demo, and the Su-30MK, side by side, and he does the exact same demonstration, as the F-22. And an airshow, then can do the same demonstration. The reality is, that's about as close as the airplanes ever get. When you compare it with US airplanes; where does it stand up against the F-16 and F-15, it's a tad bit better than we are. And that's pretty impressive, it has better radar, more thrust, vectored thrust, longer ranged weapons, so it's pretty impressive. The Sukhoi is a tad bit better (holds arm at chest level, and the other arm signifying the Sukhoi a wee bit higher). But now compare with the F-22 Raptor, the raptor is here. (holds palm way above his head - signifying that the aircraft is much better).

Red Flag 2008-4 : Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof


Su-30MKI has the edge even vs the F16/F15 (subject to the block)

I have also seen/read interviews of USAF pilots that flew against the F-22 and they said that they could get into position to shoot it down but the problem is that their radar cannot lock on to the F-22. That's not the case with MKI, radars will be able to lock on to the MKI from as far as 100+ km. So selective maneuvers that copy the F-22 may look fancy but how effective they would be in actual combat is yet to be seen.

[OFF TOPIC] By the way, I am being totally off topic but I personally think that in 20 years or so air wars may be fought exclusively by drones, they can perform maneuvers that would break a human body apart, they can be smaller and stealthier and they all do not even need to carry radars as the missiles can be guided by multiple AWACS (to defend the air space). They would cost a lot less and they can be sacrificed against a target, etc. [/BACK ON TOPIC]

 

[Mav3rick]

Usually an ac of <15 tonne weight comes in Light weight category, eg. LCA.
15 to 25 tonnes comes in MRCA eg. Rafale.
& >25 tonnes comes in heavy weight, eg. su-30s.

Technically, it has nothing to do with twin engines. While PAF maintains ac only in Light & Medium weight categories, IAF doctrines calls for maintaining a mix of all 3 weight categories.

As for BVR option, it is very much valid in Indo-Pak scenario, nearly all PAF bases are near to Indian borders & Pakistan's width is 500-600km at max, Pakistan is at disadvantage here, but don't forget IAF has su-30mki bases as far as Assam besides the bases on Indo-Pak border, with growing AAR capability of IAF, i will not be surprised if u see a su-30 base coming up in A&N, this STRATEGIC DEPTH gives massive advantage to IAF over PAF.

India can only use the strategic depth only to store her Aircraft out of PAF's reach, otherwise there is no point. And with the missiles available with bother countries that can cover the other country's every corner, why bother at all.

 

[arp2041]

India can only use the strategic depth only to store her Aircraft out of PAF's reach, otherwise there is no point. And with the missiles available with bother countries that can cover the other country's every corner, why bother at all.

Isn't STRATEGIC DEPTH all about saving a country's assets from the enemy??

+ The missiles which u are talking about can't be used as a conventional war weapon since they are NUCLEAR MISSILES used only for the purpose of Nuclear weapons delivery, it cannot be launched with a conventional warhead either by India or Pakistan, since it will be wrongly taken as a nuclear attack by the other & can initiate nuclear response. The only missile which can be used by Pakistan is Babur in a conventional scenario, whose range is limited to just 700km (not sufficient to cover whole of India), while India's equivalent of Babur i.e. Nirbhay (range-1000+) will be more than enough to cover whole Pakistan.

 

[The Deterrent]

+ The missiles which u are talking about can't be used as a conventional war weapon since they are NUCLEAR MISSILES used only for the purpose of Nuclear weapons delivery,

Not necessarily. Hatf-2 Abdali has a conventional role and Hatf-3 Ghaznavi and Hatf-4 Shaheen-I have partial ones.

it cannot be launched with a conventional warhead either by India or Pakistan, since it will be wrongly taken as a nuclear attack by the other & can initiate nuclear response.

Negative. Both India and Pakistan do not possess as robust nuclear launch capability as the USA, USSR, China, France and UK. The retaliatory responses will only initiate after the confirmation of a nuclear detonation in the respective countries. Moreover, the proximity of both countries does not allows for prompt retaliation. It will take a few hours for both sides to initiate any kind of response through the land based missiles. (Air-delivered weapons and SLBMs are exceptions, it will take them tens of minutes only).

The only missile which can be used by Pakistan is Babur in a conventional scenario, whose range is limited to just 700km (not sufficient to cover whole of India), while India's equivalent of Babur i.e. Nirbhay (range-1000+) will be more than enough to cover whole Pakistan.

Count in Ra'ad ALCM and above mentioned systems too.
There is a difference between a system tested 7 years back and a yet-to-be-seen system. Furthermore, Babur's range will not remain restricted to 700 km.

 

[Mav3rick]

Isn't STRATEGIC DEPTH all about saving a country's assets from the enemy??

+ The missiles which u are talking about can't be used as a conventional war weapon since they are NUCLEAR MISSILES used only for the purpose of Nuclear weapons delivery, it cannot be launched with a conventional warhead either by India or Pakistan, since it will be wrongly taken as a nuclear attack by the other & can initiate nuclear response. The only missile which can be used by Pakistan is Babur in a conventional scenario, whose range is limited to just 700km (not sufficient to cover whole of India), while India's equivalent of Babur i.e. Nirbhay (range-1000+) will be more than enough to cover whole Pakistan.

You are incorrect, these missiles are actually conventional payload missiles that can also deliver a Nuclear warhead.

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistan has very littlle offensive capability top attack india with planes.

They are equipped with defensive fighters like F7 F16 & JFT.. LACKING RANGE AND PAYLOAD..

IF THEY ARE relying on missles to hit india its very hit and miss es[pecially as IAF will scatter planes all over the place.

INDIA HAS NINE DIFFERENT offensive ballistic missles & cruise missles yet THESE will play a secondary role to mki mirage2000 and jaguars in strike roles WAIT TIL THE RAFALE ARRIVES complete new ball game

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

The US Government is critical of any close inspection of their Jets such as the F-16 by opposition (read: Russia). Why in the world would they allow such with the Singaporean Air Force? It's just not possible.

India is not Russia, we train with them, they offered better version of f16 to India, so it's no big deal to fly singapur air force's bird's. if Americans were concerned they wouldn't even allow those f16 to be placed in India and when we have f16blk 52's stationed inside our country for years, the same f16 versions which is used by our major enemy and you think we wouldn't grab that opportunity ? don't forget pak had even modified American supplied harpoons.

 

[danger007]

@Mav3rick: Do you think India will allow Singapore jets stationed Inside our territory without having any benefit?....

India is not pakistan to take money and allow others to use our territory ....
@Mav3rick: Do you think India will allow Singapore jets stationed Inside our territory without having any benefit?....

India is not pakistan to take money and allow others to use our territory ....

 

[Hasnain2009]

Pakistan has very littlle offensive capability top attack india with planes.

They are equipped with defensive fighters like F7 F16 & JFT.. LACKING RANGE AND PAYLOAD..

So the F16C/D is defensive fighter....good one mate.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The US Government is critical of any close inspection of their Jets such as the F-16 by opposition (read: Russia). Why in the world would they allow such with the Singaporean Air Force? It's just not possible.

So the Singaproean AF stations its F-16s in an Indian AFB 24/7 365 days a year and there is 0 contact from Indian personal?? Please sir, this is a more than a little unlikely. At the same time I didn't see any aprehensions from the US when teams of experts from the IAF looked over every single technical detail of the very latest and most advanced F-16- the F-16IN (Blk 70). For the MMRCA competion the IAF looked in depth at every single parameter and design detail on all competing a/c not to mention engagin in numerous flight and weapon trails both in and outside of India- so surely there is very little the IAF doesn't know about the F-16 these days. Not even mentioning the pilot exchanges and close ties the IAF has with the Israeli AF.

 

[Mav3rick]

India is not Russia, we train with them, they offered better version of f16 to India, so it's no big deal to fly singapur air force's bird's. if Americans were concerned they wouldn't even allow those f16 to be placed in India and when we have f16blk 52's stationed inside our country for years, the same f16 versions which is used by our major enemy and you think we wouldn't grab that opportunity ? don't forget pak had even modified American supplied harpoons.

Yes, they offered a better version of F-16 (plus F-18) as well to India including ToT I believe. But that was to make a multi billion $$ sale. Having been overlooked for the competition, do you think the Americans would allow evaluation of the F-16's that are in service with other countries? There shouldn't even be a debate about it.

It's not up to you to just grab an opportunity that is not there. Singapore would have an agreement with the US on what it can and cannot do with their F-16's. For all we know, Indian officials probably aren't even allowed on the airbase where these jets are stationed.

And lastly, let me also clarify another point, we did not modify any American Harpoons simply because we have much better and much more advanced alternates available with us for the purpose that we supposedly modified harpoons for. It was an Indian propaganda.

Pakistan has very littlle offensive capability top attack india with planes.

They are equipped with defensive fighters like F7 F16 & JFT.. LACKING RANGE AND PAYLOAD..

IF THEY ARE relying on missles to hit india its very hit and miss es[pecially as IAF will scatter planes all over the place.

INDIA HAS NINE DIFFERENT offensive ballistic missles & cruise missles yet THESE will play a secondary role to mki mirage2000 and jaguars in strike roles WAIT TIL THE RAFALE ARRIVES complete new ball game

With missiles, it will not just be the air fields and air force bases.....it will be many other targets of value too. So whatever we get on the ground is good for us, rest we will face in the air within our own airspace where we setup the rules.

@Mav3rick: Do you think India will allow Singapore jets stationed Inside our territory without having any benefit?....

India is not pakistan to take money and allow others to use our territory ....

The benefit that you speak of is purely political, nothing else.

 

[majesticpankaj]

^^^ what rubbish... pak has only 18 blk 52 which are also with string attached...

there is a complete story of f-16

The Hindu : News : Behind the Pakistan F-16 deal, a tale of many wheels

 

[Mav3rick]

So the Singaproean AF stations its F-16s in an Indian AFB 24/7 365 days a year and there is 0 contact from Indian personal?? Please sir, this is a more than a little unlikely. At the same time I didn't see any aprehensions from the US when teams of experts from the IAF looked over every single technical detail of the very latest and most advanced F-16- the F-16IN (Blk 70). For the MMRCA competion the IAF looked in depth at every single parameter and design detail on all competing a/c not to mention engagin in numerous flight and weapon trails both in and outside of India- so surely there is very little the IAF doesn't know about the F-16 these days. Not even mentioning the pilot exchanges and close ties the IAF has with the Israeli AF.

Yes....0 contact is is indeed the most likely outcome.

 

[Paan Singh]

Yes....0 contact is is indeed the most likely outcome.

This is how the U.S plays .

They give you f-16's and also let us to know about it through different sources.

I dont know but indians pilots have got training on israeli f-16's and i read it 2-3 yrs back and in return israelis learned a lot about mig-29's as iran have them.

Similarly U.S have learned a lot from flankers.

 

[Mav3rick]

^^^ what rubbish... pak has only 18 blk 52 which are also with string attached...

there is a complete story of f-16

The Hindu : News : Behind the Pakistan F-16 deal, a tale of many wheels

What rubbish, Earth has only 1 moon!!