What's new

How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

Status
Not open for further replies.
What rubbish, Earth has only 1 moon!!

why don't u read it and englitened yourself....

even your former defence minister had said that pakistan can't stand for more than 2 weeks...

last time it was 13 days...this time u will have one extra day .. :tongue:
 
. .
This is how the U.S plays :) .

They give you f-16's and also let us to know about it through different sources.

I dont know but indians pilots have got training on israeli f-16's and i read it 2-3 yrs back and in return israelis learned a lot about mig-29's as iran have them.

Similarly U.S have learned a lot from flankers.

No offense but if you think the US gives the SAME aircraft to everyone, including the Israelis, you are mistaken. There is a reason why Israel chose to put its own avionics pieces in the jet. While it is a common practice to bring major countries to the Red Flag and others, to primary evaluate their jets and show off some US capabilities, it's never apple to apple. Just wanted to clear some air.
Yes, the US wanted to give India the latest with build options within India. BUT those would STILL be different in capability wise compared to what the United States uses for its own military. That's actually the law too.
 
. . .
No offense but if you think the US gives the SAME aircraft to everyone, including the Israelis, you are mistaken. There is a reason why Israel chose to put its own avionics pieces in the jet. While it is a common practice to bring major countries to the Red Flag and others, to primary evaluate their jets and show off some US capabilities, it's never apple to apple. Just wanted to clear some air.
Yes, the US wanted to give India the latest with build options within India. BUT those would STILL be different in capability wise compared to what the United States uses for its own military. That's actually the law too.

Sir,israelis operate most advanced versions of the f-16's and singapore too .

Morever,F-16 blk 70 was tested during mmrca trials.
 
.
the best way to counter SU30MKI is just go for a war .But But but i guess there are many monkeys in the land of the pure with ustraas and want a war with india God please make there wish come tru :D
 
. .
Yes....0 contact is is indeed the most likely outcome.
You are mistaken then, since that is not the case. There are umpteen undeclared exercises between the Singaporean Sqdrn stationed here with the IAF.
 
.
Yes, they offered a better version of F-16 (plus F-18) as well to India including ToT I believe. But that was to make a multi billion $$ sale. Having been overlooked for the competition, do you think the Americans would allow evaluation of the F-16's that are in service with other countries? There shouldn't even be a debate about it.

It's not up to you to just grab an opportunity that is not there. Singapore would have an agreement with the US on what it can and cannot do with their F-16's. For all we know, Indian officials probably aren't even allowed on the airbase where these jets are stationed.

And lastly, let me also clarify another point, we did not modify any American Harpoons simply because we have much better and much more advanced alternates available with us for the purpose that we supposedly modified harpoons for. It was an Indian propaganda.



With missiles, it will not just be the air fields and air force bases.....it will be many other targets of value too. So whatever we get on the ground is good for us, rest we will face in the air within our own airspace where we setup the rules.



The benefit that you speak of is purely political, nothing else.

since we have those fighter stationed here I believe it's pretty logical to assume that iaf will have some kind of access to those f16's. but for a debate purpose let's assume we don't have a secrect arrangement with RSAF even then we have regular exercises exchange of data with them since 2004 and same is the case with isreal's f16 force. we evaluated the most modern f16 in different conditions, on every technical parameter, combine all of this and you have a very good knowledge of what f16 can and cannot do , what are the strengths and weakness..etc
btw the harpoon allegations were not from Indian side but from American authorities and media.
 
.
^^^ what rubbish... pak has only 18 blk 52 which are also with string attached...

there is a complete story of f-16

The Hindu : News : Behind the Pakistan F-16 deal, a tale of many wheels

That is not fair, you are deliberately misleading. The mid-life upgrade brings all of Pakistan's older f-16s up to the standard of the block 52s, for all intents and purposes. So 80 odd f-16s that have relatively advanced avionics are nothing to laugh at. Similarly, countless members have dispelled the myth of the limitations on the f-16s; they can be used against India and will be, in a war. The US will always curtail any potential use of their hardware against themselves, so obviously these f-16s are next to useless against them. India, on the other hand, is not the 51st US state, so the Americans have no reason to prevent the use of these f-16s against it. If the point is of sanctions, then that has been common knowledge since the 65 war. We may get sanctioned at the outbreak of a war with India, but those sanctions will have minimal impact on the capabilities of the f-16s in the said war.

The reality remains, the IAF is a formidable force, but with a limited ability to operate over Pakistani skies. The PAF presence is too concentrated to allow the IAF to consistently and successfully deliver the strike packages that can crush the Pakistani military machine from within. The PAF's weakness remains its offensive capability, and that is where the IAF will remain supreme. While Pakistani airspace will be well defended and hard to penetrate successfully, the Indian airspace defense will be even more formidable.

Either way the presence of the f-16s, which are not small in number, nor toothless, is a major issue for the IAF. If the PAF keeps a large percentage of these aircraft from getting shot down, then the IAF has virtually no chance of gaining any consistent access to Pakistani airspace and will have to devote a larger portion of their aircraft to a defensive footing, in order to prevent any offensive moves led by those very f-16s. Again, that is not to say that the f-16s will run wild over India, but keeping a portion of the IAF forces on defense interception missions is a success in itself. This is because a Pak-Indo war will always be decidedly short and the Pakistani footing will be defensive, if not from the beginning, then soon after one of our ill thought out offensives go wrong. In that scenario, the PAF will be a serious adversary that the IAF will not take lightly. Consequently, the presence of f-16s to divert MKIs and the like to defensive roles and concurrently provide a point defense presence within Pakistan against those aircraft, is definitely not rubbish. The MKIs will operate in a similar role for the IAF, but for that reason, I am not discounting their effectiveness; I believe the same courtesy should be extended to PAF f-16s.
 
.
That is not fair, you are deliberately misleading. The mid-life upgrade brings all of Pakistan's older f-16s up to the standard of the block 52s, for all intents and purposes. So 80 odd f-16s that have relatively advanced avionics are nothing to laugh at. Similarly, countless members have dispelled the myth of the limitations on the f-16s; they can be used against India and will be, in a war. The US will always curtail any potential use of their hardware against themselves, so obviously these f-16s are next to useless against them. India, on the other hand, is not the 51st US state, so the Americans have no reason to prevent the use of these f-16s against it. If the point is of sanctions, then that has been common knowledge since the 65 war. We may get sanctioned at the outbreak of a war with India, but those sanctions will have minimal impact on the capabilities of the f-16s in the said war.

The reality remains, the IAF is a formidable force, but with a limited ability to operate over Pakistani skies. The PAF presence is too concentrated to allow the IAF to consistently and successfully deliver the strike packages that can crush the Pakistani military machine from within. The PAF's weakness remains its offensive capability, and that is where the IAF will remain supreme. While Pakistani airspace will be well defended and hard to penetrate successfully, the Indian airspace defense will be even more formidable.

Either way the presence of the f-16s, which are not small in number, nor toothless, is a major issue for the IAF. If the PAF keeps a large percentage of these aircraft from getting shot down, then the IAF has virtually no chance of gaining any consistent access to Pakistani airspace and will have to devote a larger portion of their aircraft to a defensive footing, in order to prevent any offensive moves led by those very f-16s. Again, that is not to say that the f-16s will run wild over India, but keeping a portion of the IAF forces on defense interception missions is a success in itself. This is because a Pak-Indo war will always be decidedly short and the Pakistani footing will be defensive, if not from the beginning, then soon after one of our ill thought out offensives go wrong. In that scenario, the PAF will be a serious adversary that the IAF will not take lightly. Consequently, the presence of f-16s to divert MKIs and the like to defensive roles and concurrently provide a point defense presence within Pakistan against those aircraft, is definitely not rubbish. The MKIs will operate in a similar role for the IAF, but for that reason, I am not discounting their effectiveness; I believe the same courtesy should be extended to PAF f-16s.

The only thing in this case is that while PAF has 80+ F-16's, IAF is replacing its MiG 21 fleet with Su-30MKI's. That means around 270 Su-30's along with 126 Rafale's.

The numbers dont stack up well at all for PAF, even for a defensive fight. It would have to some extent had PAF been fielding technologically superior aircrafts compared to IAF. That is not the case.
 
.
That is not fair, you are deliberately misleading. The mid-life upgrade brings all of Pakistan's older f-16s up to the standard of the block 52s, for all intents and purposes. So 80 odd f-16s that have relatively advanced avionics are nothing to laugh at. Similarly, countless members have dispelled the myth of the limitations on the f-16s; they can be used against India and will be, in a war. The US will always curtail any potential use of their hardware against themselves, so obviously these f-16s are next to useless against them. India, on the other hand, is not the 51st US state, so the Americans have no reason to prevent the use of these f-16s against it. If the point is of sanctions, then that has been common knowledge since the 65 war. We may get sanctioned at the outbreak of a war with India, but those sanctions will have minimal impact on the capabilities of the f-16s in the said war.

The reality remains, the IAF is a formidable force, but with a limited ability to operate over Pakistani skies. The PAF presence is too concentrated to allow the IAF to consistently and successfully deliver the strike packages that can crush the Pakistani military machine from within. The PAF's weakness remains its offensive capability, and that is where the IAF will remain supreme. While Pakistani airspace will be well defended and hard to penetrate successfully, the Indian airspace defense will be even more formidable.

Either way the presence of the f-16s, which are not small in number, nor toothless, is a major issue for the IAF. If the PAF keeps a large percentage of these aircraft from getting shot down, then the IAF has virtually no chance of gaining any consistent access to Pakistani airspace and will have to devote a larger portion of their aircraft to a defensive footing, in order to prevent any offensive moves led by those very f-16s. Again, that is not to say that the f-16s will run wild over India, but keeping a portion of the IAF forces on defense interception missions is a success in itself. This is because a Pak-Indo war will always be decidedly short and the Pakistani footing will be defensive, if not from the beginning, then soon after one of our ill thought out offensives go wrong. In that scenario, the PAF will be a serious adversary that the IAF will not take lightly. Consequently, the presence of f-16s to divert MKIs and the like to defensive roles and concurrently provide a point defense presence within Pakistan against those aircraft, is definitely not rubbish. The MKIs will operate in a similar role for the IAF, but for that reason, I am not discounting their effectiveness; I believe the same courtesy should be extended to PAF f-16s.

F-16s will be the biggest threat for IAF indeed. But in a small full conventional war, 70 odd F-16 can be hold out with 100+Su-30s+m2k+Mig29s.
Not being a fan of the Aussie copp here, but in case of such an unfortunate event, IAFs first targets will be your C4 system, specially AWACs. PAF offensive against in Indian skies will be very risky provided the lack of AWACS cover and the Indian SAM systems. 120+ BVR capable Bisons with AWACs support will be a good deterrent too for PAF.

The only thing in this case is that while PAF has 80+ F-16's, IAF is replacing its MiG 21 fleet with Su-30MKI's. That means around 270 Su-30's along with 126 Rafale's.

The numbers dont stack up well at all for PAF, even for a defensive fight. It would have to some extent had PAF been fielding technologically superior aircrafts compared to IAF. That is not the case.
Their major advantage will be their network centric systems over their skies.
 
.
why don't u read it and englitened yourself....

even your former defence minister had said that pakistan can't stand for more than 2 weeks...

last time it was 13 days...this time u will have one extra day .. :tongue:

Why don't you enlighten yourself, defense Minister is a far fetched thing, your former army chief stated that you do not have munitions to fight for more then 2 days!

And your courage was evident from the Kargil/Parliament attack episodes.

if gone for full fledge war then hardly 2-3 days

Exactly, as you don't have ammunition to go beyond 2 days!
 
.
The only thing in this case is that while PAF has 80+ F-16's, IAF is replacing its MiG 21 fleet with Su-30MKI's. That means around 270 Su-30's along with 126 Rafale's.

The numbers dont stack up well at all for PAF, even for a defensive fight. It would have to some extent had PAF been fielding technologically superior aircrafts compared to IAF. That is not the case.

We have JFT's to counter all your Jets including the MKI's and those JFT's will also be complemented by F-16's & AWACS in the air. I will not even talk about the ground based assets. By the time you have your 272 MKI's we will have 80+ F-16's & 100+ JFT's. By the time you have your 126 Rafale, we will have something to counter it.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom