How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[EzioAltaïr]

We dont need to counter MKIs in Indian territory. Our doctrine is defensive based. ''Dont come in our air-space or we will shoot you down''. No plans to enter deep into Indian airspace. For that we have missiles...

So your army has plans to invade India without air cover?

For the sake of the Pakistani army, I hope you never become a military commander.

 

[Aphex]

The thread is not about how PAF should counter IAF, it's about countering SU30MKI.

Numbers on paper dont matter, what matters is size of your strike package and configuration,

we are not flying all of 700 odd combat aircrafts against thier 350 aircrafts at a time

Numerically a strike package of 3 mki and 4 M2k can run into 10 f16's, giving numerical superiority to PAF at that time,

The assumption is MKI strike package is aggressor, PAF will have time to get enough numbers of planes in the air to engage or even intercept. Even if 4 PAF f16's or FC1 fire a salvo and disengage without hitting any, and IAF strike package has to jettision its munition to take evasive actions, PAF's mission succeeds and they successfully counter MKI.

On flipside, if F16 formations are trying to hit trombay high and run into a formation of patrolling MKI flying pure air superiority mode from lohegaon, then narrative changes. Eireye wont have the range, f16's will be on their own, probably will have to jettison their bomb loads and counter MKI in air-combat. All that matters is pilot skills, environment of engagement, weapons loadout and some luck. Anything is possible then.

Its all about planning.

There is just one problem with your post, pakistan signed an agreement with US saying that they cannot use f-16 as a tactical/interceptor against India and if they do US will terminate all future upgrades and spare parts.

 

[SQ8]

There is just one problem with your post, pakistan signed an agreement with US saying that they cannot use f-16 as a tactical/interceptor against India and if they do US will terminate all future upgrades and spare parts.

Nope, all total speculative media bull.

 

[batmannow]

Nope, all total speculative media bull.

Why nt make thread sticky!
Thanks

 

[rockstarIN]

Answer: there is no need for a counter, Indian political leadership is impotent and will not militarily engage pakistan, PAF knows that too hence they are not in a rush.

Offensive capabilities are substantially marred as all our strike platforms cannot be optimally used as substantial squadrons of MKI and M29 will have to stay back for CAP, unless LCAMK2 is completely capable of handling point defense role against all intruders freeing up all MKI/M29s/m2k to do what they do the best. And from the looks of LCA mk2 this will take another 10 years.

On PDF, most members think PAF has all aces up there sleeves and IAF shows all it cards. Our black projects are so well guarded that no one gets even a whiff of them. ******************** there are two more jammers on board MKI and another platform which I wont go into. As far as BVR is concerned, all of Mig29 and MKI missiles and variants are not in the public domain.

As far as defensive capabilities of MKI vis a vis PAF is concerned, I am not loosing any sleep.

We have 100+ Mig-21s which will take care of the point defense in today's scenario. Though there are old and flying coffins, it is BVR capable, (can carry up to 4 so far I remember) have good ECM too. You can't just write it off them as on today. There will be a gap when they gonna retire one by one and LCA coming up so slowly indeed.

 

[Badbadman]

Sometimes I just wonder....

And regarding the Global Commerce via Pakistan; I was NOT talking about YOU. I meant US, Canada, EU, Brazil, Japan, Korea, Australia etc. And just because it is XMAS

Global commerce via pakistan...........
Keep wondering and merry Christmas

 

[Mav3rick]

Its a load of hogwash mate.. Let me rewrite what you posted..

If thats not abusing nationalities, then surely you are not able to express what you want to say.

I could as easily have abused Pakistan and trust me, there are a bunch of more backable adjectives that I can pull up for your country, but meh, wont make much of a difference...

Perhaps, not the best use of words from my side. However, I am not an enemy of somebody who is not an enemy of mine, hope you get my point. Anyway, lets get back to topic.

 

[v9s]

There is just one problem with your post, pakistan signed an agreement with US saying that they cannot use f-16 as a tactical/interceptor against India and if they do US will terminate all future upgrades and spare parts.

You have to be an imbecile to believe such a thing actually exists.

 

[Mav3rick]

Really? JF-17 vs Su 30 MKI?

And what makes you think the Bars is inferior to the KLJ-7? The Bars can track while scan 15 targets, engage four of 'em simultaneously. The KLJ can TWS 10 targets and engage 2. And you just see the range, to figure out which one is superior.

Lets talk of range, the Bars radar can spot a JFT sized fighter roughly 105km-120km away (head on) and surprise surprise, the JFT can spot the MKI roughly 110km-120km away!

And we don't even use the Russian jammers, we use Indian ones.

And the JF-17 can't use AIM 120s AFAIK, correct me if I'm wrong here. The only PAF plane that has AMRAAMs, is F-16 right?

You are replacing Russian Jammers but I am highly skeptical of Indian Jammers. Anyway, I guess they have to be better then Russian Jammers. But the AIM-120C5 and SD-10 Missiles carried on our JF-17's have great resistance to such Jammers.

By the way, did you think we purchased 500 AIM-120C5 for 50 odd F-16's?

 

[Skull and Bones]

You are replacing Russian Jammers but I am highly skeptical of Indian Jammers. Anyway, I guess they have to be better then Russian Jammers. But the AIM-120C5 and SD-10 Missiles carried on our JF-17's have great resistance to such Jammers.

By the way, did you think we purchased 500 AIM-120C5 for 50 odd F-16's?

Yes, as the Americans have only provided you with the missile, not the required source code to pair it with any other radar of Non-American origin.

 

[Mav3rick]

It's not just about defensive attributes of countering MKi but also offensive capabilities without AWACS cover to deep into the indian territory.

That's where the F-16's come into play with Standoff Missiles or just SRBM/IRBM.

Sandy

Whislt PAF wait for this LWF based on J20 (10 YEARS) WHO TACKLES 270 SU30MKI ????

The threat is here TODAY not 2020 WHEN RAFALE & FGFA have arrived

You speak of today yet you do not have 270 MKI's. Either stick to today or speak of the future, stop mixing and matching to your requirement. By the time IAF has 270 MKI's, we will have 150+ JFT's (Block 2 too) as well as those 50 odd F-16's. That's more then enough to be a defensive force under cover of our AWEACS & SAM's as well as ground based EW etc. assets.

 

[Mav3rick]

I hope by this statement u are not asking to start a war with a nuclear armed country, though we are conventionally way ahead of Pakistan but a war will only put a break on India Shining story for few years for sure, but that does not mean that any 26/11 type attack will go without any Indian retaliation as than public pressure would be too great to handle by the GOI.

Yeah, I guess this time 2000 Indian soldiers will die during mobilization instead of the 800 odd last time! That's before India unilaterally retreats from the border after being unable cross a single inch of the LoC whilst making all these rhetorical claims of invasion and surgical strikes and retaliation!

 

[Skull and Bones]

You speak of today yet you do not have 270 MKI's. Either stick to today or speak of the future, stop mixing and matching to your requirement. By the time IAF has 270 MKI's, we will have 150+ JFT's (Block 2 too) as well as those 50 odd F-16's. That's more then enough to be a defensive force under cover of our AWEACS & SAM's as well as ground based EW etc. assets.

MKI numbers are pretty much near 200, and considering induction of about 20 aircraft per year and 42 Super MKIs imported from Russia, the number of 270+ will be met within 2 years.

While there are only 60+ JF-17s in service, and with a production rate of 20 aircraft per year, it'll take more than 4 years for your stated number of 150+.

 

[Mav3rick]

@TVVELVEMO$ India is not sitting idle while Pakistan develops, India is about to Induct Rafale which will take care of any Chinese or Typoons.

Regarding RED flag exercise the real results and real strategies will never be known and kept secret.

And I hope they stay a secret, for your sake! We don't want to publicly humiliate a great potential client now, do we?

So your army has plans to invade India without air cover?

For the sake of the Pakistani army, I hope you never become a military commander.

Where did he even suggest of any Pakistani plans to 'invade' India????

 

[Mav3rick]

There is just one problem with your post, pakistan signed an agreement with US saying that they cannot use f-16 as a tactical/interceptor against India and if they do US will terminate all future upgrades and spare parts.

Lol.....read the agreement again. And this time consider the scenario of India attacking Pakistan and not vice versa.

MKI numbers are pretty much near 200, and considering induction of about 20 aircraft per year and 42 Super MKIs imported from Russia, the number of 270+ will be met within 2 years.

While there are only 60+ JF-17s in service, and with a production rate of 20 aircraft per year, it'll take more than 4 years for your stated number of 150+.

Well, you forgot 1 thing. The Chinese can produce Jets faster then the Russians