How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[TaimiKhan]

Whaaaaatt??
Re-read the post Taimi! Don't be in THAT much hurry!

i wasn't talking to you buddy, i was making your post as a reference for the others

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/124858-paf-exercises-other-air-forces-world-8.html

PAF has been undergoing exercises with many countries who were using BVRs for a long time , not to mention the deputations of paf pilots with other friendly airforces

Ofcourse you use such statements as paf is in dire need of f16s etc as a marketing pitch however I would like members to go through the jft info pool to have a better understanding of the capabilities of the fighter --- If the author was comparing jf17 blk1 with f16 blk52+/mlu , then its understandable

AWACS , air refuellers were conveniently not mentioned in the report , maybe the author was only mentioning U.S tech operated by PAF

J-10 will be the frontline fighter in paf -- restricted production lines seems to be a big hurdle at the moment

Even though paf has incorporated cruise missiles e jft to take out frigates etc , I hope that a dedicated squadron of j-10s is used in the maritime role

Operating sd10b,mar1 ra'ad and other precision standoff weapons would be the trump cards for the jft

The operating costs of jft are so low that the pilots can complete a lot of flying hours on it not to mention the quick sortie rate and capabilty to operate from short unprepared roads

 

[dbc]

With the MKI, the IAF can now launch attacks from the south, flying low, undetected over the Indian ocean using other MKI's for buddy refueling.The addition of the Rafale will further enhance this capability. It means that Pakistan's coast is now as exposed as its land border with India. This is something the PAF did not have to worry about in the past.

 

[Paan Singh]

@taimikhan

why u think that india wont deploy full force in case of conflict?? why is so much delusions??
yeah,same thing was in mind of mushy during kargil war that we will capture kargil and cut the highway and will threaten india and india surely wont bring full force and artillery etc but opposite happened in that case and india brought heavy artillery with deployment of troops in massive numbers.

its just an example to u wrt ur point,have no link wid thread.IAF have deployed su-30 very close to borders in jodhpur and same thing in kargil base which is going to be made in 2-3 years..

india have 170+ mki's presently and more than 100 are meant for pak only .
i m not talking about rest of the force.so it neutralizes the fact that pak will ever attack first like it had happnd all over history.

 

[TaimiKhan]

She definitely consulted the Military attache to Pakistan.THat's the Standard Operating procedure throughout the world for writing Defence related cables.Similarly for Intel related Cables the Intelligence Attache is consulted(In the case of USA CIA).



Read the April 2004 edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology;it mentions that IAF pilots changed their tactics Successfully in the middle of a Dogfight something which even IDF pilots will be not be very confident about.I don't think you know that IAF Su-30MKI pilots fly 250-300 hours a year(One of the highest in the world).
Remember PAF F-16 plots completed 100,000 flyng hours in 2008(After 25 years of Service).Su-30 MKI's itself has flown for 100,000+ flying hours between 2004-2012.


JF-17's are supposed to be PAF's mainstay in this decade compared to IAF's Su-30 MKI's in the first half of this decade and Rafale's in the second part,now even a Rank 1 noob can tell that Su-30MKI and Rafale score way above JFT's.

Military attache knows about everything ?? Does he knows about tactics and state of the armed forces or the plans they have or the complete weapon systems. Don't be a kid, and plz tell me the SOP which says that this is how the cable has to be written.

I have not mentioned the training or tactics procedure of IAF pilots, thus no idea why you bringing in irrelevant material. When you compare flying hours, then also do compare the number of jets SU-30s IAF operates and the F-16s PAF operates, plus you forget the 10+ years we were under sanction. So flying hours is not a bench mark for anything.

This decade has just started, JF-17s are not main stay fighters, they would be the work horse of the PAF, the main stay would be F-16s & in future other fighter program. JF-17s are going to replace older jets and not inducted to take on Su-30s. So plzzzz loose the childish attitude and show a more mature side of yours.

And leave this thing here and talk on the topic as you are derailing the thread.

 

[fast and furious]

i wasn't talking to you buddy, i was making your post as a reference for the others

You do not get his point Mr. Senior moderator.You were quoting a post which mentioned Ghaznawi destroyong SU-30 in your reply and asking the Indian members not bring their Missiles and stuff in the discussion,reminding us about the Topic being" PAF countering Su-30".

In that context I wrote the post no. 539.

Please reply to that post.

 

[Paan Singh]

With the MKI, the IAF can now launch attacks from the south, flying low, undetected over the Indian ocean using other MKI's for buddy refueling.The addition of the Rafale will further enhance this capability. It means that Pakistan's coast is now as exposed as its land border with India. This is something the PAF did not have to worry about in the past.

yeah.we have dedicated squads of su-30 for sea operations.They are stationed in gujrat near pakistan border.

 

[TaimiKhan]

With the MKI, the IAF can now launch attacks from the south, flying low, undetected over the Indian ocean using other MKI's for buddy refueling.The addition of the Rafale will further enhance this capability. It means that Pakistan's coast is now as exposed as its land border with India. This is something the PAF did not have to worry about in the past.

I wasn't expecting this out of you. I thought you knew much more about the stuff.

 

[Harry Potter]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/124858-paf-exercises-other-air-forces-world-8.html

PAF has been undergoing exercises with many countries who were using BVRs for a long time , not to mention the deputations of paf pilots with other friendly airforces

PAF recieved it's first active Radar BVR missiles in exactly 2 years ago:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/67117-amraam-bvr-missiles-delivered-pakistan.html
Believe me it takes years(atleast 5) to properly assimilate BVR tactics into your Air Force.

Anyways IAF pilots yawned a lot when the Faced Singapore's F-16 Block 52+ with all their Amraam's this year.Nothing special,the results were overwhelmingly in our favor.

 

[SBD-3]

Although the thread is about PAF, but another dimension is also present through which Pakistan can effectively encounter IAF. That is, the destruction/disabling of aircraft on ground by attacking the airbases with ballistic missiles.
The formidable Ghaznavi SRBM (range 300 km), which has a larger volume in the warhead assembly, can be effectively armed with Cluster Munitions to attack the key Airbases of IAF, such as the ones housing SU-30s.

I dont think Balistic missiles will be the first priority, PAF's efforts to acquire and integrate 1) Stand-off weaponary 2)PGMs can be considered a step in the same direction. Btw, there is another news recently out that China, after developing FT-5, has developed a new Stand off PGM in the same class as AASM Hammer.

 

[Harry Potter]

Military attache knows about everything ?? Does he knows about tactics and state of the armed forces or the plans they have or the complete weapon systems. Don't be a kid, and plz tell me the SOP which says that this is how the cable has to be written.

They surely know more than you.
ASk any diplomat anywhere in the world how a diplomatic cables are written(Atleast in USA,India).If you don't know any diplomat personally sorry I can't do anything.

I have not mentioned the training or tactics procedure of IAF pilots, thus no idea why you bringing in irrelevant material. When you compare flying hours, then also do compare the number of jets SU-30s IAF operates and the F-16s PAF operates, plus you forget the 10+ years we were under sanction. So flying hours is not a bench mark for anything.

This decade has just started, JF-17s are not main stay fighters, they would be the work horse of the PAF, the main stay would be F-16s & in future other fighter program. JF-17s are going to replace older jets and not inducted to take on Su-30s. So plzzzz loose the childish attitude and show a more mature side of yours.

And leave this thing here and talk on the topic as you are derailing the thread.

The general rule of the thumb is the More you fly better are your skills.
@JFT's I clearly mentioned Numerical mainstay.

 

[TaimiKhan]

@taimikhan

why u think that india wont deploy full force in case of conflict?? why is so much delusions??
yeah,same thing was in mind of mushy during kargil war that we will capture kargil and cut the highway and will threaten india and india surely wont bring full force and artillery etc but opposite happened in that case and india brought heavy artillery with deployment of troops in massive numbers.

its just an example to u wrt ur point,have no link wid thread.IAF have deployed su-30 very close to borders in jodhpur and same thing in kargil base which is going to be made in 2-3 years..

india have 170+ mki's presently and more than 100 are meant for pak only .
i m not talking about rest of the force.so it neutralizes the fact that pak will ever attack first like it had happnd all over history.

No delusions buddy, India has for now and in future two fronts to look after, and thus not all force would be deployed just for Pak, plus we even don't know what are the objectives of IAF, thus without knowing what the objectives are, no one knows how much IAF will deploy, which ones and where.

PAF can attack first not just through sending its jets over the bases, now dynamics have changed, you have cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, PGMs, which can easily take out adversary's assets without risking your jets going into adversary's air space.

@taimikhan

why u think that india wont deploy full force in case of conflict?? why is so much delusions??
yeah,same thing was in mind of mushy during kargil war that we will capture kargil and cut the highway and will threaten india and india surely wont bring full force and artillery etc but opposite happened in that case and india brought heavy artillery with deployment of troops in massive numbers.

its just an example to u wrt ur point,have no link wid thread.IAF have deployed su-30 very close to borders in jodhpur and same thing in kargil base which is going to be made in 2-3 years..

india have 170+ mki's presently and more than 100 are meant for pak only .
i m not talking about rest of the force.so it neutralizes the fact that pak will ever attack first like it had happnd all over history.

No delusions buddy, India has for now and in future two fronts to look after, and thus not all force would be deployed just for Pak, plus we even don't know what are the objectives of IAF, thus without knowing what the objectives are, no one knows how much IAF will deploy, which ones and where.

PAF can attack first not just through sending its jets over the bases, now dynamics have changed, you have cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, PGMs, which can easily take out adversary's assets without risking your jets going into adversary's air space.

 

[Manticore]

please read my post again & tell me if jft does not offer the capability that i've mentioned

 

[Harry Potter]

No delusions buddy, India has for now and in future two fronts to look after, and thus not all force would be deployed just for Pak, plus we even don't know what are the objectives of IAF, thus without knowing what the objectives are, no one knows how much IAF will deploy, which ones and where.

PAF can attack first not just through sending its jets over the bases, now dynamics have changed, you have cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, PGMs, which can easily take out adversary's assets without risking your jets going into adversary's air space.

You yourself told not to bring in Surface to Surface missiles!!
Anyway's Subsonic missiles like BAbur are can be easily brought down by Spyder's SAM.

please read my post again & tell me if jft does not offer thie capability that i've mentioned

Awac's, A2A refueling??
What's new in this?
Nearly every IAF platform incl.MiG-21's have A2A refueling capability.

 

[TaimiKhan]

So,how many Surface to surface missiles are operated by PAF ?

You do not get his point Mr. Senior moderator.You were quoting a post which mentioned Ghaznawi destroyong SU-30 in your reply and asking the Indian members not bring their Missiles and stuff in the discussion,reminding us about the Topic being" PAF countering Su-30".

In that context I wrote the post no. 539.

Please reply to that post.

Mr. fast & furious showing over smartness, do you think I, you or anyone else on the forum will know the number of SSM which pakistan or India holds ?? Issue is not just ballistic missiles, you have cruise missiles on both sides and then PGMs, so all the factors will play their role and not just SSMs.

You yourself told not to bring in Surface to Surface missiles!!
Anyway's Subsonic missiles like BAbur are can be easily brought by Spyder's SAm.

very easy to say, but in practical terms we have yet to see which thing will reach its target and which will get destroyed.

PAF recieved it's first active Radar BVR missiles in exactly 2 years ago:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/67117-amraam-bvr-missiles-delivered-pakistan.html
Believe me it takes years(atleast 5) to properly assimilate BVR tactics into your Air Force.

Anyways IAF pilots yawned a lot when the Faced Singapore's F-16 Block 52+ with all their Amraam's this year.Nothing special,the results were overwhelmingly in our favor.

And are you sure that PAF had no BVR capability before AMRAAMS ??

They surely know more than you.
ASk any diplomat anywhere in the world how a diplomatic cables are written(Atleast in USA,India).If you don't know any diplomat personally sorry I can't do anything.


The general rule of the thumb is the More you fly better are your skills.
@JFT's I clearly mentioned Numerical mainstay.

They may surely know more then me about their own country armed forces, but they surely don't know much about the other armed forces other then what's printed and known to all.

Its not a hard and fast rule that in every cable related to defence you have to bring in the military attache or write through him.

Yeah as a general rule its good, the more you fly the more your skills are, but sometimes other factors also play a role through which even with less flying your skills improve.

Yeah numerical mainstay, they are talking about something which has yet to come in numerical / quantitative way, they don't know and did not mentioned the qualitative status these jets will reach by the time they get inducted. Plus, she leaves out the other platforms we may have by the time this numerical mainstay gets inducted.

As said its all hypothetical.