How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Black Widow]

Are you aware that you are comparing an early fourth generation fighter with a 4++ generation fighter, by USAF standards???
Obviously you have just compared the Specifications of the two on wikipedia. But dude Specs are not everything!! Ask Gambit, he knows much better about this than most of the guys at PDF...........

He said nothing Wrong, Su30 rank in class of F14 (and F15). (By weight, role). You read his post in correct perspective.

F 15 is a much better platform. F 22 Raptor is BUILT upon F 15. It's flight performance within its flight envelop is unmatched so far.

I can only say "Lack of knowledge". F15 was made in reply of MiG25 and F22 was totally new philosophy. SU27 series was reply to F15 (Not F14) as Orange-Zeib claims.


Famous Quote: Russia saw the need to have a capable fighetr (Like F15). One fighter for all need, MiG29 was not the platform delivering it. Sukhoi Design beurue came with new prototype to counter USA Dominance (F15). T10 was reply to F15.

 

[alimobin memon]

He said nothing Wrong, Su30 rank in class of F14 (and F15). (By weight, role). You read his post in correct perspective.



I can only say "Lack of knowledge". F15 was made in reply of MiG25 and F22 was totally new philosophy. SU27 series was reply to F15 (Not F14) as Orange-Zeib claims.


Famous Quote: Russia saw the need to have a capable fighetr (Like F15). One fighter for all need, MiG29 was not the platform delivering it. Sukhoi Design beurue came with new prototype to counter USA Dominance (F15). T10 was reply to F15.

United states has classified different roles to the specific designs like F15 for air dominance , while f16 for mig29 and FA-18 as naval airforce solution. F15 was designed before f16 and f18 , mig29 and su27. Mig 25 was never a air dominance fighter but a very high speed interceptor,In 1960's united states already discovered that manueverability is more important than high speed , but in addition to it if a mach 2.4++ was needed for air-dominance which can compete in any role. MIG25 shocked the USAF because of it's speed only F4 phantom couldn't do anything to counter it's speed so F15 program came into existence. Mig29 and Su27 were later proposed to answer the F15 program.
F22 airframe is actually an F15 designed with polymers , almost no edges to give an super stealth capabilities. like F35 design is based on F16 but changed later with many different aerodynamic designs however considered by many as stealth F16.

 

[joekrish]

don't think the JF 17's are a threat as of today but with the future updates things could take a turn ( not taking in to account the MKI's will also be going in for an update) though I'm very sure from an Indians perspective we will fear the F 16's more than the JF's.

 

[ANPP]

non of PAF a/c is able to counter the MKI, what ever it is F 16, JF 17 or new a/c which will induct in near future .

so best solution for PAK is improve their ground based anti a/c assets to counter the increase power of the IAF & MKI

 

[mylovepakistan]

non of PAF a/c is able to counter the MKI, what ever it is F 16, JF 17 or new a/c which will induct in near future .

so best solution for PAK is improve their ground based anti a/c assets to counter the increase power of the IAF & MKI

welcome KID to defence.pk

nice start with ur 1st post....LOL!!!

now go to 1st page before posting another post...

 

[Pak47]

Poor English ?
he NEVER said that, and its not funny but Stupid, nevermind it's expected from YOU
Not worth replying ,until post something constructive to discuss.

You think im going to take the time to proof read everything on a defence forum??

This is what he said

"non of PAF a/c is able to counter the MKI, what ever it is F 16, JF 17 or new a/c which will induct in near future."

So when he says it its not stupid, because he's indian... but when i give an example of how foolish that post was.. all of a sudden my post is foolish and being bashed on..

Then you go on to insult personally.

That post is foolish whether you admit it or not. Enough thread de-railing. Lets get back on topic, and not argue over simple posts.



On topic- Paf's im sure has discussed this.. and we the public, might never know what it is. F'16 is a ruthless machine btw.. im sure thats a part of their plan.

 

[Darth Vader]

LOL the THIng Is em watching this thread IS going insane For many days

1st of all are u who discussing this thread is any of 1 U are IN Paf Or Iaf IF yes then Just those Reply and those Who are Just dream pilots well Dsnt matter wht u Say Cz When a pilot is trained he has 2 achieve the goal with minimum resources

Cz that's the part Of our training and i can bet many of u r being think tanks of Iaf or Paf U guys never even saw the Cockpit in ur real life so plz let the Guys 2 their Job and have a life No offence i didnt wanted to offend some body but well if need to listen the truth u need 2 Guys 1 who can listen and 1 who can tell

 

[danger007]

MKI reserve some advantages like 2 pilots, greater pay load, maneuverability, speed , combat radius etc.....

JF-17 reserves one advantage Low RCS.... point out if there is any other advantages please don't bring sam network....

Even F-117 shot down in serbia with neva..... No one claiming MKI can't be shot down.... but jf-17 have less chances than MKI ......

 

[Storm Force]

Danger007

YOU POST IS THE MOST SENSIBLE POST in a saga of 35 pages of circles ranting and raving.

" Like the guy said " other than RCS IS THERE ANOTHER ADVANTAGE IN THE JFT over the SU30MKI ???

 

[danger007]

Danger007

YOU POST IS THE MOST SENSIBLE POST in a saga of 35 pages of circles ranting and raving.

" Like the guy said " other than RCS IS THERE ANOTHER ADVANTAGE IN THE JFT over the SU30MKI ???

Count 36 bro...... one chinese member(martian) said to reduce cost F-35 made with cheap composites etc......

isn't it applicable to JF-17 which costs around 15-20 Million $$... world cheapest(cost) 4th gen fighter .....
Instead of ADA they used C language but it can't reduce that much cost i think......

no offense these are my doubt after reading martian2 post ...

I will say one thing JF-17 is cost effective fighter....

 

[Zabaniyah]

Count 36 bro...... one chinese member(martian) said to reduce cost F-35 made with cheap composites etc......

isn't it applicable to JF-17 which costs around 15-20 Million $$... world cheapest(cost) 4th gen fighter .....
Instead of ADA they used C language but it can't reduce that much cost i think......

no offense these are my doubt after reading martian2 post ...

I will say one thing JF-17 is cost effective fighter....

So does the F-35 and F-16 block 60.

 

[danger007]

So does the F-35 and F-16 block 60.

please read completely..... i said it can't reduce cost that much...

 

[Donatello]

MKI reserve some advantages like 2 pilots, greater pay load, maneuverability, speed , combat radius etc.....

JF-17 reserves one advantage Low RCS.... point out if there is any other advantages please don't bring sam network....

Even F-117 shot down in serbia with neva..... No one claiming MKI can't be shot down.... but jf-17 have less chances than MKI ......

Good post......but keep in mind that in any air war, a number of aircraft have to be lost. In JF-17s case, these are cheap and readily available.

Secondly, JF-17 is still in infancy....long way to go. Like proposed RWR and EW suites and as technology matures, maybe better radars and guided BVR missiles....

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Good post......but keep in mind that in any air war, a number of aircraft have to be lost. In JF-17s case, these are cheap and readily available.

Secondly, JF-17 is still in infancy....long way to go. Like proposed RWR and EW suites and as technology matures, maybe better radars and guided BVR missiles....

The chances of jf 17 shooting down a mki will very less so is the numbers also.
IMO your current f 16 will have more chances chances of shooting down mki (yes I am aware of the chest thumping claims but still ).

in near future also this is not going to change because like jf 17 mki also will undergo upgrades.

 

[Viper0011.]

Are you aware that you are comparing an early fourth generation fighter with a 4++ generation fighter, by USAF standards???

Obviously you have just compared the Specifications of the two on wikipedia. But dude Specs are not everything!! Ask Gambit, he knows much better about this than most of the guys at PDF...........

Am I aware? Yes, VERY much so. Can't get into further details. But BARS was built on F 14 tech from pulse doppler to PESA. It's the evolution. F 16 and other jets STILL use the same engines. Due to the advanced avionics, you can put a label on it like 4++ generation but it's really progress in the avionics and the flight control computer module plus lessons learned from the engines. The point is not that I am trying to degrade SU 30, the point is that this was really a Russian response to F 14 - F 18 (finally, it took a LONG time).

If you have a capable electronics house (like Us, Israel, Japan, etc), it is not hard to take old tech and convert it into the new tech. In fact, a great example is LCD tv's, companies that had HUGE inventories of LCD tv's are now swapping their main boards and light emitters out and replacing them with faster processor, LED light emission kits....resulting in the first generation of LED tv's (which are really converted LCD tv in reality). Similarly, a capable electronic house can use the AESA or PESA tech and mimic the pulse doppler characteristics. That's entirely do-able, but results in a much better products like BARS.

Second, I haven't read the infamous 'Wikipedia'. I don't read 'other' sources that people write to. I don't even write stuff unless I know its authentic and there are multiple ways to verify it. Lastly, I don't speak on issues that I don't know. I am here to share what I know (to the extent it CAN be shared, and to learn some new stuff.