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How PAF Prevented an Israeli Attack on Pakistan's Nuclear Assets

And, in the event that such a thing happened, why wasn't it taken to the international stage by Pakistan?
Read my first post. I've mentioned it there.

Pakistan's Ambassador to US addressed the UN and warned India and Israel during the session.

You like to deny this because your hands are found dirty. But then again, without presenting any genuine proof, how could you say Pakistan (ISI) did the 26/11 Mumbai attack? 'You just know.'

And the very first intercept was issued to Pakistan by no one else but CIA, after the Israeli F-16s moved to India. The movement of F-16s was what alerted Pakistan. We were sitting ducks without this intercept.
 
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Read my first post. I've mentioned it there.

Pakistan's Ambassador to US addressed the UN and warned India and Israel during the session.

You like to deny this because your hands are found dirty. But then again, without presenting any genuine proof, how could you say Pakistan (ISI) did the 26/11 Mumbai attack? 'You just know.'

And the very first intercept was issued to Pakistan by no one else but CIA, after the Israeli F-16s moved to India. The movement of F-16s was what alerted Pakistan. We were sitting ducks without this intercept.

There is some evidence that Iraq was not the only nuclear peril to Israel that Begin saw in the early 1980s. Nor was the Osirak reactor in Iraq his only intended target. He also feared the Pakistani nuclear effort because Israeli intelligence had found evidence that Libya and other Moslem states were helping Pakistan, supplying both money and uranium to their effort. (Note 52) Pakistan's leader, Bhutto, was therefore under some obligation to share the nuclear fruits of Pakistan's bomb effort with other Moslem states such as Libya.

According to an Indian official, Subramaniam Swamy, a former Janata Party member, Israel in 1982 asked him to sound out other Indian leaders to see if India would grant Israeli warplanes landing and refueling rights were they to undertake an Osirak-type raid against the Kahuta nuclear reactor in Pakistan. (Note 53) India refused, probably for a combination of reasons. As one expert on South Asia speculated:

"First, the Kahuta facility is well-protected and is thus a hard target to destroy. Second and more important, India expects that any first strike by India against Kahuta would be swiftly followed by a Pakistani attack against India's nuclear facilities. Such an exchange would leave India worse off, since any potential deterrent capability against China would thereby be eliminated. Finally, India would be wary of launching such an attack against Pakistan as it would cause not only great death and destruction to Pakistan, but could blow radioactive fall-out back over India. Such an attack against Pakistan would also alienate the Muslim Middle Eastern states whose amity India has assiduously cultivated." (Note 54)

In 1991, India and Pakistan signed a treaty pledging that neither would preemptively attack the nuclear facilities of the other.

</title><meta name="CreatedBy" content="WP Internet Publisher 6.1"></head><body><title>McNair Paper 41, Radical Responses to Radical Regimes: Evaluating Preemptive Counter-Proliferation, May 1995

This is the only article I got back from an extensive search, and not being gifted with insider information's, am limited to search out and depend on what's available on the web.
 
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According to an Indian official, Subramaniam Swamy, a former Janata Party member, Israel in 1982 asked him to sound out other Indian leaders to see if India would grant Israeli warplanes landing and refueling rights were they to undertake an Osirak-type raid against the Kahuta nuclear reactor in Pakistan. (Note 53) India refused, probably for a combination of reasons. As one expert on South Asia speculated:

This part is true. In 1980s, the attack did not happened because India refused AFTER the warning from Pakistan to lay waste on Indian AND Israeli facilities. Israelis however did not really bothered about that, but India did because they know Pakistan was capable enough.

The attack that was planned 25 years latter in 1998 saw Israeli F-16s on Indian soil. There was not attempt once but atleast twice on large scale.
 
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This part is true. In 1980s, the attack did not happened because India refused AFTER the warning from Pakistan to lay waste on Indian AND Israeli facilities. Israelis however did not really bothered about that, but India did because they know Pakistan was capable enough.

The attack that was planned 25 years latter in 1998 saw Israeli F-16s on Indian soil. There was not attempt once but atleast twice on large scale.
Sorry to bust your myth.. read the pdf file.


India-Pakistan Non-Attack Agreement | Treaties & Regimes | NTI
 
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This part is true. In 1980s, the attack did not happened because India refused AFTER the warning from Pakistan to lay waste on Indian AND Israeli facilities. Israelis however did not really bothered about that, but India did because they know Pakistan was capable enough.

The attack that was planned 25 years latter in 1998 saw Israeli F-16s on Indian soil. There was not attempt once but atleast twice on large scale.

Pure speculations by some unknown expert as to the reasons.
 
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This is the only article I got back from an extensive search, and not being gifted with insider information's, am limited to search out and depend on what's available on the web.

If I were you i wouldn't take all these insider info's seriously.

No professional soldier would give out such sensitive info to a bunch of kids tryin to show-off to their friends.

Real insiders are actually made to take classes on how not to leak out sensitive stuff in public domain.

At worst it could be a attention seeking pretender entertaining simpletons:coffee: with tall tales.
 
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Most are just silly stories. The presence of Israeli squadron in India for the stated purpose is true. Direct attack from Israel via the Western and South Western corridor is what was actually happening.

Regarding shooting down of an airliner, the guy who mentioned it must be on some funny stuff.
No there was never any Israeli squadron in India.

1) If India wanted to attack Pakistani nuclear installations they would do it themselves. There is no any chance on earth they would let Israel to use India as its base. Surely not in 80-es when Israel and India had not diplomatic relationships.
2) Israel never considered Pakistan as a threat, since its in US camp and too far. The only concern of Israel that in case Pakistan collapses it falls in hands of some radical groups like AQ & Taliban. But in 80-es Pakistan was very stable and AQ/Taliban did not even exist.

There is some evidence that Iraq was not the only nuclear peril to Israel that Begin saw in the early 1980s. Nor was the Osirak reactor in Iraq his only intended target. He also feared the Pakistani nuclear effort because Israeli intelligence had found evidence that Libya and other Moslem states were helping Pakistan, supplying both money and uranium to their effort. (Note 52) Pakistan's leader, Bhutto, was therefore under some obligation to share the nuclear fruits of Pakistan's bomb effort with other Moslem states such as Libya.

According to an Indian official, Subramaniam Swamy, a former Janata Party member, Israel in 1982 asked him to sound out other Indian leaders to see if India would grant Israeli warplanes landing and refueling rights were they to undertake an Osirak-type raid against the Kahuta nuclear reactor in Pakistan. (Note 53) India refused, probably for a combination of reasons. As one expert on South Asia speculated:

"First, the Kahuta facility is well-protected and is thus a hard target to destroy. Second and more important, India expects that any first strike by India against Kahuta would be swiftly followed by a Pakistani attack against India's nuclear facilities. Such an exchange would leave India worse off, since any potential deterrent capability against China would thereby be eliminated. Finally, India would be wary of launching such an attack against Pakistan as it would cause not only great death and destruction to Pakistan, but could blow radioactive fall-out back over India. Such an attack against Pakistan would also alienate the Muslim Middle Eastern states whose amity India has assiduously cultivated." (Note 54)

In 1991, India and Pakistan signed a treaty pledging that neither would preemptively attack the nuclear facilities of the other.

</title><meta name="CreatedBy" content="WP Internet Publisher 6.1"></head><body><title>McNair Paper 41, Radical Responses to Radical Regimes: Evaluating Preemptive Counter-Proliferation, May 1995

This is the only article I got back from an extensive search, and not being gifted with insider information's, am limited to search out and depend on what's available on the web.
Why would Israel tell their super duper secret plans to some little socialist opposition party? :) Seems this guy just want wants to boost his importance.
 
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The fact of the matter remains. That the event of an invisible pink elephant nesting under my bed will ALWAYS be denied by the world at large until the invisible pink elephant decides to show itself in public.
And that event of nesting will always be ingrained in my mind thanks to a nice shot of invisible video from the nesting that Ive had the privilege to see.. BUT ..I cannot prove it until that invisible pink elephant shows itself to the public.
Any further discussion on that matter then, is CLOSED.

Do you see where I'm going with this....

Whatever suits you, any further BS on this will be infracted and a pink tutu sent the members way.

Just does not make sense for such an extreme measure. Why send just 4 falcons for escort if the threats were so real, why not 8 or 12 or 16?

If there was any doubt in the minds of the higherups that the C130 pilot would desert, why not simply assign the task to some die hard patriotic above such doubts? and why not place a counter team on the C130 to shoot the pilot if he deviates from the route?

No! I don't think the C130 pilots were suspect, or there was that great a risk of C130 being hijacked from within our borders with a reasonably good sized and efficient airforce on guard, had there been a real risk, there would have been more falcons in hte escort team with potent weapons to bring down treasure cove rather than going the extreme way of ramming it down.

If I were to really believe in that story, then PAF is not even 10% of what we believe it to be in terms of professionalism and capability.

Believe it , Its called extreme Paranoia.. And rightly so.. since there were all sorts of reports flying on they cyphers.
 
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I know that. But whats your reply is concerned with my reply?
I mean what u r trying to prove buddy?

Read yr post for which i have replied.
U said that india n israel cant do anything like that as india had recognize it in 1991, right?

But in the same post u alleged that Pakistan has been working with them since time etc etc dont remember exact words.
So i told u by using yr own logic that if u cant work with israel in 80s for before because u just had recognize it in 1991, then Pakistan has still not recognize it even in 2012,
So can we work with each other:azn:
 
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Being in the same "camp" is not entirely relevant here. The ISI was quietly allowing Mossad and its affiliates in FATA in 1980s to operate and arm the mujahideen because interests merged. The same way that regardless of diplomatic relations, I doubt Israel was happy seeing a Muslim country attain nuclear status - dont forget they attacked the Iraqi installation as well. Geographic location and threat level is also looked at and yes it's true that today neither Pakistan not Israel see eachother as threats. Both are worried enough about their regional security.

It was wise of PAF to be extra vigilant and it was wise of India and Israel to call off their preemptive operation. It would have started a war.
 
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LOL just 2 mini trucks of black and white colour for 18 block50/52 jet stationed in shahbaz AB along with these trucks.
U make me laugh u know because in every thread u give examples of these 2 mini trucks n a offer of mutations in 2009.

Dude!!!
Even if we become their biggest friend still they will not sell us any OFFENSIVE TECHNOLOGY that will be effective against our Enemies in a real way.

Even after reading all the comments of senior members in this forum still u say that then i seriously think u really have got some issues here.

Again you have a misconception my friend, China is militarily hostile to US, however Israel (biggest ally of US) has given tons of military equipment to China, they even transferred technology of LAVI aircraft project which chinese used in J-10 which PAF has ordered. The PL series missiles got help from Israeli technology too, and they are in service with PAF. So please don't give me that useless argument that they won't sell us the defence tech once Pak recognizes Israel, defence relationships are just business ... this is a big misconception which a few of my fellow countrymen have !!! Here are my sources

Asia Times

U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq

I don't like to use fantasy articles from blogs etc to prove my point and i would recommend you too to come into real world and stop believing in delusional conspiracy theories...especially on wikipedia
 
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Most incidents are corroborated on both sides even though the versions might differ but there is general consensus to the happening. This assertion of Israel air force parking their planes in an Indian base is no where mentioned and going by the huge and sometimes crazy media and the thousands of experts on our side, such an incident has never been mentioned even vaguely and don't think the Indian authorities have a handle on every mouth piece in India, If one presumes that this exposure might harm India or Israel's image it must be noted that many more details which are more damaging to India's image has been routinely exposed or been discussed in our media or by experts.

All I am asking is even a half baked corroborative proof to this preposterous notion, even a mention of this from any of your allies or from those that are vehemently against India or Israel will do. This is purely from an Indian's perspective on this story which we find hard to believe - what you say from personal or other experiences is not enough for us and yes you don't have to prove it to us - but then this is not the truth as far as the other parties involved here goes hope you guys can accept that too.

And, in the event that such a thing happened, why wasn't it taken to the international stage by Pakistan?

Because even though our nuclear program was an open secret, we wanted to keep it low key and as secretive as possible. Not doing what the Iranians are doing today.

Timing was a luxury though; it just happened to be the time when the free world needed our help to crush the soviets
 
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Because even though our nuclear program was an open secret, we wanted to keep it low key and as secretive as possible. Not doing what the Iranians are doing today.

Timing was a luxury though; it just happened to be the time when the free world needed our help to crush the soviets
So was the finance. We did not have to bang our heads, the Middle East was generously giving the finance for this program.
 
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