How many wars has Pakistan won?

[AfrazulMandal]

No it wasn't, the war started on the 6th of September with Hindustan aiming to cripple the Pakistani military and capture major cities near the border like Lahore.

Irrelevant, because that's not when it started. If you want to play that game, we could take it back to the Rann of Kutch incident.

We already do consider them to be our own, as we are Muslims first and foremost. No matter what other people on this forum may tell you, for Pakistanis, unless the history has to do with their tribe/ethnicity or village/city, we couldn't care less if it has nothing to do with Muslims/Islam.

Inshallah, the entire Muslim world will be united under one flag.

Ok.
For you the war started ....insert your date.
For us war started when we were attacked.

Then biggest muslim victories should be listed. I will fully support you.

And entire world will unite under the Islamic flag. Have faith.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Right, but if Hindustan never met their objectives either, then the question becomes who achieved more.

I already told you, in 1965 the objective was to defend ourselves from the Hindustani invasion that occurred on the 6th of September, and we did that in little over two weeks, stop conflating pre-war escalation with the actual war itself.

Point 5353 (among others) were always Hindustani, and we took them, which even the Hindustani military admits gives us complete dominance over the area.

Please read my original post, thanks.

Actually those points were only technically part of India after 1971. In1947, we only got the Kargil lowlands. Even after 1971, we never occupied those posts, they were kind of a no man's land similar to Siachen. Many of those peaks were actually allocated to Pakistan. It was not until after Kargil that India started to occupy those peaks that Pakistan occupied 5353. A good operation, but too little too late, as India already has the dominant position. That is why whenever tensions arose since then, Pakistan limited cross border firing to the Jammu sectors of the LOC, because they would suffer heavier casualties in the Kargil sector than their Indian counterparts.

BTW, wars are won by achieving objectives. Although most of the wars resulted in little change on both sides, you can accurately say India is better of because for the most part, the status quo remains, and it has always benefited India.
Should be posting some more history threads today btw

 

[Hamza913]

Actually those points were only technically part of India after 1971. In1947, we only got the Kargil lowlands. Even after 1971, we never occupied those posts, they were kind of a no man's land similar to Siachen. Many of those peaks were actually allocated to Pakistan. It was not until after Kargil that India started to occupy those peaks that Pakistan occupied 5353. A good operation, but too little too late, as India already has the dominant position. That is why whenever tensions arose since then, Pakistan limited cross border firing to the Jammu sectors of the LOC, because they would suffer heavier casualties in the Kargil sector than their Indian counterparts.

BTW, wars are won by achieving objectives. Although most of the wars resulted in little change on both sides, you can accurately say India is better of because for the most part, the status quo remains, and it has always benefited India.
Should be posting some more history threads today btw

I thought you said we weren't discussing this stuff anymore lol?

I look forward to your history thread.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I thought you said we weren't discussing this stuff anymore lol?

I look forward to your history thread.

I was referring mainly to 47 we can still discuss 99 if you want
Anyway just got back home so I should post some history stuff soon

 

[Inception-06]

@Inception-06

Is this an AMX-13 ? if it is, then it maybe an Indian Tank.

Could be also captured Indian!

 

[alee92nawaz]

I am really skeptical about kargil. We sent 5000+ of our men for slaughter. Didn't back them when india was hitting them with everything they had. It was a blunder. .5353 wasn't with us before?

I've decided I shall be re-posting one of my Quora answers onto this forum, if you guys like it please let me know.

Question: The title of the thread

Answer:

3 out of the 5 fought.

The first one was the Kashmir War in 1947. The ruler of Kashmir wanted to join India, but he had a Muslim majority population that wanted to join Pakistan. So what did he do? He launched a genocide against Muslims across Kashmir so create a population shift. As a result, Pakistan invaded Kashmir, and then of course the Indian army came in to defend Kashmir since the ruler officially signed the instrument of accession to obtain their help (confirming his intentions once and for all), so there was fierce fighting, with Pakistani forces outnumbered significantly (as always) but we still managed to gain roughly 40% of the region by the end of the two year conflict. If we had sat idly by, we wouldn’t have gotten any of Kashmir, so yes that’s pretty much a victory since we only gained land and lost none of it. Indians may claim that Hari Singh intended to be independent and only signed the instrument of accession to defend himself from Pakistan, but then why did he launch such brutal crackdowns on Muslims throughout the region? It’s clear what his real intentions were.

The forgotten massacre that ignited the Kashmir dispute

Here is a picture of a Pakistani tank during the Kashmir War:

Here are the current borders of the Kashmir region, which has remained relatively static after the Kashmir War other than Pakistan gifting the uninhabited Shaksgam Valley to China as a gesture of goodwill, China taking Aksai Chin from India during the Sino-Indo War in 1962, and India taking almost all of the Siachen during the Siachen War (but both Aksai Chin and the Siachen are pretty much strategically unimportant as per most analysts):

In 1965, India invaded Pakistan on the 6th of September. In little over two weeks, their attack was halted and in fact reversed, with Pakistan gaining significantly more land, destroying several times as many aircraft, attacking Dwarka, and breaking world records (e.g we won the largest tank battle since WW2, MM Alam shot down 5 planes in under a minute, this was one of the shortest wars in history, etc) all while being, again, outnumbered several times over. The Prime Minister of India also died of a heart attack once the war was, some speculating over from the sheer magnitude of defeat. However, after the war was over, both sides were amicable during negotiations and borders became back to the way they were prior to 1965.

Tashkent Agreement

Here are some pictures from the 1965 war:

Here’s one that makes me chuckle, it comes from an Indian newspaper:

For those of you who may want to learn more about MM Alam:

Fifth death anniversary of war hero MM Alam being observed today | The Express Tribune

Or other PAF achievements in 1965:

Paf’s record-breaking performance in 1965 war

As well how the PN attacked Dwarka:

Now, again, a lot of Indians will object to this by declaring that Pakistan launched covert operations in Kashmir during August, and that’s true, however, the war did not start until India launched an invasion across the international border on the 6th of September, the fighting in August was part of the pre-war build up, just like the numerous skirmishes that occurred during the Rann of Kutch dispute in 1965 prior to Pakistan’s covert operations in Kashmir.

The third war which Pakistan has won was the Kargil War in 1999. Musharraf, most probably in an attempt to garner public support for his future coup as well as just an attempt to a seize an opportunity, sent 5,000 Pakistani soldiers as well as militants to take over Kargil, and they did so with ease. The Indian military then sent in 30,000 troops to retake the area, who also got frequent resupplies as well as air support, unlike their Pakistani counterparts (Musharraf knew the rest of the military would not support his decision so he acted without informing them). Over the period of two months of fierce fighting, the Pakistani military still held on to a significant portion of Kargil and even managed to shoot down a helicopter and a fighter jet. Eventually, due to political pressure from the Pakistani government, the rest of the Pakistani military, and the US, Musharraf decided to call the Pakistani military in Kargil to withdraw from most of Kargil, but still retain some of the key peaks in the area, most notably, Point 5353.

The fact that Pakistan still retains such strategic parts of Kargil gives them complete domination over the area, so Musharraf pretty much achieved whatever objectives he set out to achieve (i.e get public support for his eventual coup and achieve a military victory against India). Even the Indian military admits this, with former Lt. Col. Kuldip Singh Ludra stating in reference to Point 5353: "it dominates, by observation and fire, the complete area on both side of the Line of Control.”

Debunking Kargil Myths & How Pakistan Captured Point 5353

Here’s a picture of Pakistani troops during the Kargil War:

@Indus Pakistan @Indus Priest King @Samlee @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @war&peace @Saif al-Arab @HannibalBarca @Ahmad Sajjad Paracha @Ahmet Pasha @Iqbal Ali @newb3e @AfrazulMandal @Zuraib Qasit Khan Deccani @Luffy 500 @M.R.9 @Kambojaric @Army research @Champion_Usmani @Clutch @Areesh @Zibago @django @Horus @Mentee @maximuswarrior @Imran Khan @Reichsmarschall @Talwar e Pakistan @ThanatosI @Windjammer @RiazHaq @WebMaster @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz @Mugwop @Albatross @RealNapster @Dalit @Ocean @Starlord @hussain0216 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Azadkashmir @Taimoor Khan @Hassan Guy @UnitedPak @WAJsal

 

[alee92nawaz]

We should also start mentioning this war on terror . We have made significant advances in it.

I've decided I shall be re-posting one of my Quora answers onto this forum, if you guys like it please let me know.

Question: The title of the thread

Answer:

3 out of the 5 fought.

The first one was the Kashmir War in 1947. The ruler of Kashmir wanted to join India, but he had a Muslim majority population that wanted to join Pakistan. So what did he do? He launched a genocide against Muslims across Kashmir so create a population shift. As a result, Pakistan invaded Kashmir, and then of course the Indian army came in to defend Kashmir since the ruler officially signed the instrument of accession to obtain their help (confirming his intentions once and for all), so there was fierce fighting, with Pakistani forces outnumbered significantly (as always) but we still managed to gain roughly 40% of the region by the end of the two year conflict. If we had sat idly by, we wouldn’t have gotten any of Kashmir, so yes that’s pretty much a victory since we only gained land and lost none of it. Indians may claim that Hari Singh intended to be independent and only signed the instrument of accession to defend himself from Pakistan, but then why did he launch such brutal crackdowns on Muslims throughout the region? It’s clear what his real intentions were.

The forgotten massacre that ignited the Kashmir dispute

Here is a picture of a Pakistani tank during the Kashmir War:

Here are the current borders of the Kashmir region, which has remained relatively static after the Kashmir War other than Pakistan gifting the uninhabited Shaksgam Valley to China as a gesture of goodwill, China taking Aksai Chin from India during the Sino-Indo War in 1962, and India taking almost all of the Siachen during the Siachen War (but both Aksai Chin and the Siachen are pretty much strategically unimportant as per most analysts):

In 1965, India invaded Pakistan on the 6th of September. In little over two weeks, their attack was halted and in fact reversed, with Pakistan gaining significantly more land, destroying several times as many aircraft, attacking Dwarka, and breaking world records (e.g we won the largest tank battle since WW2, MM Alam shot down 5 planes in under a minute, this was one of the shortest wars in history, etc) all while being, again, outnumbered several times over. The Prime Minister of India also died of a heart attack once the war was, some speculating over from the sheer magnitude of defeat. However, after the war was over, both sides were amicable during negotiations and borders became back to the way they were prior to 1965.

Tashkent Agreement

Here are some pictures from the 1965 war:

Here’s one that makes me chuckle, it comes from an Indian newspaper:

For those of you who may want to learn more about MM Alam:

Fifth death anniversary of war hero MM Alam being observed today | The Express Tribune

Or other PAF achievements in 1965:

Paf’s record-breaking performance in 1965 war

As well how the PN attacked Dwarka:

Now, again, a lot of Indians will object to this by declaring that Pakistan launched covert operations in Kashmir during August, and that’s true, however, the war did not start until India launched an invasion across the international border on the 6th of September, the fighting in August was part of the pre-war build up, just like the numerous skirmishes that occurred during the Rann of Kutch dispute in 1965 prior to Pakistan’s covert operations in Kashmir.

The third war which Pakistan has won was the Kargil War in 1999. Musharraf, most probably in an attempt to garner public support for his future coup as well as just an attempt to a seize an opportunity, sent 5,000 Pakistani soldiers as well as militants to take over Kargil, and they did so with ease. The Indian military then sent in 30,000 troops to retake the area, who also got frequent resupplies as well as air support, unlike their Pakistani counterparts (Musharraf knew the rest of the military would not support his decision so he acted without informing them). Over the period of two months of fierce fighting, the Pakistani military still held on to a significant portion of Kargil and even managed to shoot down a helicopter and a fighter jet. Eventually, due to political pressure from the Pakistani government, the rest of the Pakistani military, and the US, Musharraf decided to call the Pakistani military in Kargil to withdraw from most of Kargil, but still retain some of the key peaks in the area, most notably, Point 5353.

The fact that Pakistan still retains such strategic parts of Kargil gives them complete domination over the area, so Musharraf pretty much achieved whatever objectives he set out to achieve (i.e get public support for his eventual coup and achieve a military victory against India). Even the Indian military admits this, with former Lt. Col. Kuldip Singh Ludra stating in reference to Point 5353: "it dominates, by observation and fire, the complete area on both side of the Line of Control.”

Debunking Kargil Myths & How Pakistan Captured Point 5353

Here’s a picture of Pakistani troops during the Kargil War:

@Indus Pakistan @Indus Priest King @Samlee @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @war&peace @Saif al-Arab @HannibalBarca @Ahmad Sajjad Paracha @Ahmet Pasha @Iqbal Ali @newb3e @AfrazulMandal @Zuraib Qasit Khan Deccani @Luffy 500 @M.R.9 @Kambojaric @Army research @Champion_Usmani @Clutch @Areesh @Zibago @django @Horus @Mentee @maximuswarrior @Imran Khan @Reichsmarschall @Talwar e Pakistan @ThanatosI @Windjammer @RiazHaq @WebMaster @TMA @DESERT FIGHTER @Desert Fox @waz @Mugwop @Albatross @RealNapster @Dalit @Ocean @Starlord @hussain0216 @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @Azadkashmir @Taimoor Khan @Hassan Guy @UnitedPak @WAJsal

 

[alee92nawaz]

Bhai hold your horses... @PakSword is a good member so try to understand others' perspective instead of jumping to conclusions so fast.
You are also a good contributor but respecting seniors especially good members is important for a healthy discussion.


Sorry I got engaged on another issue..

First of all 5 is a lie.
There were only conflicts in total (48, 65, 71 and 99), 48 and 99 were limited conflicts or battles while 65 and 71 are the only wars by definition.

Pakistan won 1948, 65 while lost in 71 on the eastern front. and then 1999 Kargil which neither side won or lost. Still Pakistan holds a few key posts.

In 1999 we failed toal acheive the objects set by the commanders. So can we consider it a loss?

 

[Hamza913]

.5353 wasn't with us before?

No, it wasn't. Neither were several other areas that are now under our control post Kargil war.

 

[Signalian]

Could be also captured Indian!

were any captured AMX-13 put in PA use?

 

[alee92nawaz]

Kindy share the details with some proof?

No, it wasn't. Neither were several other areas that are now under our control post Kargil war.

 

[Jackdaws]

Right, but if Hindustan never met their objectives either, then the question becomes who achieved more.

I already told you, in 1965 the objective was to defend ourselves from the Hindustani invasion that occurred on the 6th of September, and we did that in little over two weeks, stop conflating pre-war escalation with the actual war itself.

Point 5353 (among others) were always Hindustani, and we took them, which even the Hindustani military admits gives us complete dominance over the area.

Please read my original post, thanks.

Point 5353 is now in Pakistani control. On the other hand, to neutralize the threat, India captured Point 5310 and Point 5070. Are you suggesting capture of peaks, ridges and mountains constitute War victories?

 

[Hamza913]

Kindy share the details with some proof?

Kindly read my original post thoroughly before asking questions.

 

[Inception-06]

were any captured AMX-13 put in PA use?

As some reports yes! We even used parts of Indian Tanks for our own.