How long will Israel exist?

[Nishan]

As mentioned forget about east or west Joint capital for both.

Its time to forget the past and move on in order to find a solution as everyone has their own position. Fact is fact as it is today and we need to find a solution without digging up the past.

Dear Rumporum . . . This is a logical solution, but do you think that there are supported by the Israeli side? I doubt it

 

[rameez ahmed]

In my opinion the only way out of this Al Quds mess by allowing the Palestinians to call Al Quds their capital and we also call Jerusalem our capital. Basically joint capital for two states and Khalaas end of this story. This could be a start of the negotiations and then move on to other topics such as settlements etc..etc.

By the way that Mordechai Kedar does al lot of debates on Koran, Al Quds subject quite a few videos on this subject. I don't know the Koran and therefore cant comment on it.



PS: Honest question still puzzles me why is Pakistan and Pakistani's at least in the media so concerned about what's going on in Israel. As during the Flotilla incident I noticed media was more bothered about what happened there as opposed to the 100 or so people killed in a Mosque in Lahore , Ahmediya's Mosque I believe. I believe the media refused to refer to the people who died/killed as Shaeeds or martyrs.

If you have the idea of so called Joint Capital of Two states then you should tell it to your Netanyahoo because he and his government don't allow Palestinians to visit al Aqsa Mosque and is destroying Palestinians settlements in the West bank on which they have no right to make their settlements.... I think the Idea of Joint Capital will not work.

Secondly if you have not studied Quran by yourself then you should not say , at the back of other people sayings about Quran, that Al Aqsa and Al Quds is not mentioned in Quran.. You should study it YOURSELF and then say.. This is just an Advice to you..


Lastly, We Pakistanis , about sixty three years back, were in the same conditions as the Innocent Palestinians are today... British had occupied the Subcontinent illegally like the way today Israel has done to the Palestine.... We Pakistanis knows the Importance and the worth of of freedom (like many other nations who were illegally occupied)..... we know the pain those Palestinians are feeling today because of Israeli Atrocities..

Thats why Pakistanis are very much concerned about the Independence of Palestine form the Illegal occupation of Israel....

about the Blast on Ahmadi's blast, i want to say that it was covered very well in Pakistan media.. I think you didn't saw it well...

About whether they are shaheed or not ? the answer is that they are not Muslims in any way.. So they can't be shaheeds ... They believe the Maniac person to be there prophet, Messiah that is against Islam because Hazrat Muhammad (SA) is the Last Prophet of Allah and Hazrat Isa/Jesus (AS) is the true Messiah that will come in future...

Those who beleive him are out of Islam. So they are not Muslims and are not shaheeds in any way...

 

[Durran3]

About whether they are shaheed or not ? the answer is that they are not Muslims in any way.. So they can't be shaheeds ... They believe the Maniac person to be there prophet, Messiah that is against Islam because Hazrat Muhammad (SA) is the Last Prophet of Allah and Hazrat Isa/Jesus (AS) is the true Messiah that will come in future...

Those who beleive him are out of Islam. So they are not Muslims and are not shaheeds in any way..

Your a sick man..next time try putting your country first not religion. I still can't believe that people like you don't give a rats *** about your citizens dying just because they are Ahmadi... its people like you that make our country come 10th in the FSI index and i hope to God (if he exists) that he installs some sense of respect for humanity in your extreme retarded religious head..

 

[rameez ahmed]

Your a sick man..next time try putting your country first not religion. I still can't believe that people like you don't give a rats *** about your citizens dying just because they are Ahmadi... its people like you that make our country come 10th in the FSI index and i hope to God (if he exists) that he installs some sense of respect for humanity in your extreme retarded religious head..

I think you are a sick man who have taken it in that point.... I am Pakistani and i consider every one in Pakistan (even a non Muslim in Pakistan) have equal rights as a Muslim Pakistani has....

But since they have wrong belief, and claim Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be their Prophet and Messiah, they are significantly misguided and are not muslims in any way because they have no belief that Holy Prophet (SA) is the last Prophet and Hazrat Isa (AS) is the True Messiah...
they are significantly wrong and are not muslims.. so claiming that they are Shaheeds is out of Question...

 

[Rumporum]

Dear Rumporum . . . This is a logical solution, but do you think that there are supported by the Israeli side? I doubt it

Habibi, There are many idiots or fundamentalist's on our side I completely agree and also on the other side. BUT we also have many rational think normal people who really want to see peace as enough is enough. Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We need to try and I am sure that we normals will prevail over the extremists.

PS: I dont agree with the siege of Gaza, however at the same time I don't also believe that Hamas should be allowed to import whatever weapons they want from Iran and lob that our cities. Dont you think that if Hamas made a statement today saying that we will continue with our struggle for our people etc.....ONLY via peaceful methods and we renounce violence then a lot will change the Israeli government hawks will be compelled to act or reciprocate like wise. Also Hamas will get more international credibility and also support. I doubt that Hamas will do that however as its against their charter and their logic seriously beats me sometimes.

 

[prototype]

As mentioned forget about east or west Joint capital for both.

Its time to forget the past and move on in order to find a solution as everyone has their own position. Fact is fact as it is today and we need to find a solution without digging up the past.

100% agree with u,this people r unable to see what is reality today,just keep telling about what was the situation 1500 yrs ago,man 1500 yrs,the world have seen irreversible changes since then

 

[rameez ahmed]

100% agree with u,this people r unable to see what is reality today,just keep telling about what was the situation 1500 yrs ago,man 1500 yrs,the world have seen irreversible changes since then

Sir we muslims will stop talking what position was 1500 years ago, if Jews will stop talking what was the position of them at the time of Hazrat Daud (David) (AS) and Hazrat Suleman (solomon) (AS) about 3500 years ago....

I think the world have changed even more in the last 3500 years...

 

[Rumporum]

If you have the idea of so called Joint Capital of Two states then you should tell it to your Netanyahoo because he and his government don't allow Palestinians to visit al Aqsa Mosque and is destroying Palestinians settlements in the West bank on which they have no right to make their settlements.... I think the Idea of Joint Capital will not work.

Secondly if you have not studied Quran by yourself then you should not say , at the back of other people sayings about Quran, that Al Aqsa and Al Quds is not mentioned in Quran.. You should study it YOURSELF and then say.. This is just an Advice to you..


Lastly, We Pakistanis , about sixty three years back, were in the same conditions as the Innocent Palestinians are today... British had occupied the Subcontinent illegally like the way today Israel has done to the Palestine.... We Pakistanis knows the Importance and the worth of of freedom (like many other nations who were illegally occupied)..... we know the pain those Palestinians are feeling today because of Israeli Atrocities..

Thats why Pakistanis are very much concerned about the Independence of Palestine form the Illegal occupation of Israel....

about the Blast on Ahmadi's blast, i want to say that it was covered very well in Pakistan media.. I think you didn't saw it well...

About whether they are shaheed or not ? the answer is that they are not Muslims in any way.. So they can't be shaheeds ... They believe the Maniac person to be there prophet, Messiah that is against Islam because Hazrat Muhammad (SA) is the Last Prophet of Allah and Hazrat Isa/Jesus (AS) is the true Messiah that will come in future...

Those who beleive him are out of Islam. So they are not Muslims and are not shaheeds in any way...

Sir, as mentioned in the previous post I dont know anything about the koran or the bible and religion in general and therefore don't wish to pass any comments or make any statements. There are others though who do and for example do a search for Mordechai Kedar on youtube who apparently knows the Koran and he would be the best to discuss Al Quds etc.... ( I don't endorse his opinions or thoughts they are his own)

There are many people in Israel who want to see peace and also a comprehensive solutions. Yes there is an issue with the settlements and that a part of the over all problem we need to start somewhere. Also there is no restrictions on Muslims going to Al Aqsa or anything like that East Jerusalem is the Arab or Muslim neighbourhood.

I have lived in India ( Nai Dilli)for quite some time and do know very well how India and Pakistan were created there is no comparison between 1947 Pakistan and what's happening in the middle east today. In fact some of my friends have their families in Pakistan Partition of India and creation of Pakistan is completely different subject on its own.

I suggest that Pakistan look at its own first before going out to help others as there are lot of things within Pakistan that need to be fixed prior to helping others. I basically speak of basic things like electricity, health care,water, education, economy etc... and on top of that terrorism. In the end the peace deal will be the outcome between the conflicting parties and no matter who from outside will not be able to influence the final out come.

 

[Nishan]

Habibi, There are many idiots or fundamentalist's on our side I completely agree and also on the other side. BUT we also have many rational think normal people who really want to see peace as enough is enough. Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We need to try and I am sure that we normals will prevail over the extremists.

Totally agree with you here


PS: I dont agree with the siege of Gaza, however at the same time I don't also believe that Hamas should be allowed to import whatever weapons they want from Iran and lob that our cities. Dont you think that if Hamas made a statement today saying that we will continue with our struggle for our people etc.....ONLY via peaceful methods and we renounce violence then a lot will change the Israeli government hawks will be compelled to act or reciprocate like wise. Also Hamas will get more international credibility and also support. I doubt that Hamas will do that however as its against their charter and their logic seriously beats me sometimes.

This paragraph needs to be discussed . . . What about the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank . . Do not get weapons from Iran . . .Not firing rockets at Israeli cities . . Seeking peaceful solutions. . . Is Israel responded to them? . . On the contrary . . .Jewish settlers have increased attacks on Palestinian towns and villages in the West Bank . . The Israeli Government seized more Palestinian land . . . Israeli government continues to restrict freedom of movement for Palestinians . . . Israeli government continues to procrastinate and waste time in negotiations . . The Israeli government wants a Palestinian state, cut into small pieces are not linked geographically . . . The Israeli government wants a demilitarized Palestinian state . . . The Israeli government does not recognize the right of return of 6 million Palestinians . . . The Israeli government insists that Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel only, without other . . etc.
after all of that Habibi . . Do you think that Israel has left an opportunity to be accepted in the Middle East

 

[Nishan]

. . .I suggest that Pakistan look at its own first before going out to help others as there are lot of things within Pakistan that need to be fixed prior to helping others. I basically speak of basic things like electricity, health care,water, education, economy etc... and on top of that terrorism. In the end the peace deal will be the outcome between the conflicting parties and no matter who from outside will not be able to influence the final out come.

Dear Rumporum . . You are trying to isolate the Palestinian cause . . .Trying to say that it is an issue between the Israelis and the Palestinians, or between the Israelis and the Arab States . . .This is not true, my dear . . . Why do you think that the Pakistanis, Indonesians, Turks, Iranians and Afghans, for example, are interested in Palestine, while the Dutch, Japanese, Argentines and Mexicans do not care ? ? . . .Because the Pakistanis and Indonesians, Turks, Iranians and Afghans, all Muslims . . . Because Palestine has a sacred place for all Muslims of all nationalities and from all continents . . . And the teachings of Islam calls on all Muslims to defend their lands and sacred places God has made this the most important thing in the lives of Muslims is more important than electricity, health care,water, education, economy etc

 

[Rumporum]

This paragraph needs to be discussed . . . What about the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank . . Do not get weapons from Iran . . .Not firing rockets at Israeli cities . . Seeking peaceful solutions. . . Is Israel responded to them? . . On the contrary . . .Jewish settlers have increased attacks on Palestinian towns and villages in the West Bank . . The Israeli Government seized more Palestinian land . . . Israeli government continues to restrict freedom of movement for Palestinians . . . Israeli government continues to procrastinate and waste time in negotiations . . The Israeli government wants a Palestinian state, cut into small pieces are not linked geographically . . . The Israeli government wants a demilitarized Palestinian state . . . The Israeli government does not recognize the right of return of 6 million Palestinians . . . The Israeli government insists that Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel only, without other . . etc.
after all of that Habibi . . Do you think that Israel has left an opportunity to be accepted in the Middle East

I am not saying that we haven't done anything wrong I accept that however the other side also needs to accept that they are no angels. Secondly all the things that you mentioned above are part and parcel of the problem and we all know the list is long and we cannot tackle everything at once and needs to be done piece by piece. To do that we need to start somewhere in Israel there is a lot of pressure on Bibi to meet Abu Mazen and start this as soon as possible. No one is saying that the picture in the West Bank is very rosy there is peace there and loads of issues as you mention above.

In the end though for peace to prevail and in order to have a solution Hamas and the likes of Islamic Jihad etc... must renounce violence agree to dialogue and also our right to exist. Else nothing is going to happen. If we cant budge then at least let them show us a way by example and renounce violence. As for acceptance is concerned be honest how many governments in the middle east or lest say rulers are even accepted by their own people. Currently good or bad Israel is the only democracy in the middle east and as soon as their is sign from the other side for peace we will push our own government to reciprocate. Latest examples is the Gilad Shalit demonstrations going on for days now who are pressurising the government to get him released by releasing Hamas prisoners. Do you think anything like that is even remotely possible in Egypt or Jordan for example. Also in the case of Silwan there are many Israeli's religious and non-religious who are demonstrating with the Palestinians currently against the settlement issue. Try that in Syria and who ever does that is history.

Conclusion here is that we need a peaceful mutually agreed joint agreement to resolve all issues. Violence from both sides only prevents this and plays into the hands of the hard-liners.

 

[Nishan]

I am not saying that we haven't done anything wrong I accept that however the other side also needs to accept that they are no angels. Secondly all the things that you mentioned above are part and parcel of the problem and we all know the list is long and we cannot tackle everything at once and needs to be done piece by piece. To do that we need to start somewhere in Israel there is a lot of pressure on Bibi to meet Abu Mazen and start this as soon as possible. No one is saying that the picture in the West Bank is very rosy there is peace there and loads of issues as you mention above.

In the end though for peace to prevail and in order to have a solution Hamas and the likes of Islamic Jihad etc... must renounce violence agree to dialogue and also our right to exist. Else nothing is going to happen. If we cant budge then at least let them show us a way by example and renounce violence. As for acceptance is concerned be honest how many governments in the middle east or lest say rulers are even accepted by their own people. Currently good or bad Israel is the only democracy in the middle east and as soon as their is sign from the other side for peace we will push our own government to reciprocate. Latest examples is the Gilad Shalit demonstrations going on for days now who are pressurising the government to get him released by releasing Hamas prisoners. Do you think anything like that is even remotely possible in Egypt or Jordan for example. Also in the case of Silwan there are many Israeli's religious and non-religious who are demonstrating with the Palestinians currently against the settlement issue. Try that in Syria and who ever does that is history.

Conclusion here is that we need a peaceful mutually agreed joint agreement to resolve all issues. Violence from both sides only prevents this and plays into the hands of the hard-liners.

Dear I think that the region needs courageous men who have the desire and courage to make peace, such as the late Yitzhak Rabin and the late King Hussein without the presence of the desire and courage will be no peace and I think that the Israeli government and Hamas beneficiaries of the current situation because both depend for their survival in power for the actions of the other party

 

[Rumporum]

Dear I think that the region needs courageous men who have the desire and courage to make peace, such as the late Yitzhak Rabin and the late King Hussein without the presence of the desire and courage will be no peace and I think that the Israeli government and Hamas beneficiaries of the current situation because both depend for their survival in power for the actions of the other party

Agreed

BTW are you Jordanian?

 

[Rumporum]

Dear Rumporum . . You are trying to isolate the Palestinian cause . . .Trying to say that it is an issue between the Israelis and the Palestinians, or between the Israelis and the Arab States . . .This is not true, my dear . . . Why do you think that the Pakistanis, Indonesians, Turks, Iranians and Afghans, for example, are interested in Palestine, while the Dutch, Japanese, Argentines and Mexicans do not care ? ? . . .Because the Pakistanis and Indonesians, Turks, Iranians and Afghans, all Muslims . . . Because Palestine has a sacred place for all Muslims of all nationalities and from all continents . . . And the teachings of Islam calls on all Muslims to defend their lands and sacred places God has made this the most important thing in the lives of Muslims is more important than electricity, health care,water, education, economy etc

Im not trying to isolate the problems however believe that it must be solved by the parties concerned else it will not help.

On the other hand I must say I am really surprised by this logic that Muslims beleive they should solve Israel-Palestinian problems first before even well being of their own people. As hypothetically speaking lets say Israel-Palestinian problem solved however the basic issue of getting 24hrs electricity, water, medical care, good school , job and eventually food on the table will still remain freeing Al-Quds doesn't really help those dying of hunger.

 

[rameez ahmed]

Im not trying to isolate the problems however believe that it must be solved by the parties concerned else it will not help.

On the other hand I must say I am really surprised by this logic that Muslims beleive they should solve Israel-Palestinian problems first before even well being of their own people. As hypothetically speaking lets say Israel-Palestinian problem solved however the basic issue of getting 24hrs electricity, water, medical care, good school , job and eventually food on the table will still remain freeing Al-Quds doesn't really help those dying of hunger.

Sir in Islam problems of a brother muslim comes first.. Holy Prophet (SA) said:

"muslims are like a body .. If there is pain in one part then then whole body gets effected with it...​

So a true muslim will take care of other Muslims first and of his needs.. just like a body , if there is a pain in yours legs, definitely you may not work properly because of that pain. you will try to finish that pain first and then you will fulfill the needs of your other parts of the body..

the same is the case with muslims (a true muslim I must say).... Holy Prophet (SA) never rested until he solved the problems of the muslims that came to him...

So a true muslim will not rest unless the problem of Palestinians is settled.. Definitely we also have to struggle against the terrorism in Pakistan .. that our country is doing well ..

As far as the electricity,etc etc are concerned I personally don't give it any importance because our brothers in Palestine are in the worst condition than we are in Pakistan... And the Quran says that while looking at the people who are better that you, also look at the people who are in worst condition than you , and thank Allah for what He have given you.

So only looking at electricity, good schools , etc is only one side of the coin.. We as Ummah have to look at the Muslims who are in the worst conditions than us and should help them...

that's why every true Muslim you will find will be having his focus on his brother muslim (whether it be of Palestine, Kashmir or in his neighborhood) also apart from himself and his family..