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How Islamicised is the Pakistan army?

I hope that you are aware that in a public meeting, the Qaid-e-Azam of Pakistan shouted down and forced to sit down a member of the audience who stood up and suggested that this slogan should be adopted by the AIML. Mr. Jinnah went on to say that neither he nor the League Council had ever endorsed these words, and that the member from the floor might have used it 'to catch a few votes'.

If he did that, he was wrong. He was not infallable, nor perfect. For Muslims, the referrence point is Qur'an and the Sunnah. The Quaid was not learned in religion. Only his words that agree with Islam are acceptable, not others. This is Islam 101.

Imam Malik (a first century scholar from Medina) said, "The words of everyone can be accepted or rejected, accept the Prophet (peace be upon him)" (Muqaddimah Sifat Al-Salah)
 
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Nice article on the topic

Purging Pakistan\'s jihadi legacy
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - The silent tug of war being fought between the Pakistani army\'s Islamists and its liberal army leadership appears to have reached a boiling point, with well-placed sources telling Asia Times Online that the army, for the first time in its history, has taken on a different - and much more harsh - strategy to deal with its internal struggles, one that includes the death penalty. In the 1980s, for the sake of maintaining its \"strategic depth\" against India, the Pakistani army modified the structure of its jihadi outfits, with the aim of boosting its leverage in Central Asia and Afghanistan before forging a strategic alliance to establish Pakistan\'s political hegemony on South Asia. Since September 11, 2001, however, under immense US pressure, Pakistan was forced to take a U-turn and undo this policy, which resulted in many internal divisions within the army - the only organized institution in the country. Over the past year, several pictures have emerged to support this connection, but the latest discovery by Asia Times Online points to an obvious change already in place.

Behind the iron curtains of Pakistan\'s military bases, an army that for two decades was oriented in Muslim renaissance and pan-Islamism dwells. Whatever little news that spills out from the closed doors of the army\'s cells is enough to determine that a serious problem has indeed been simmering since September 11; President General Pervez Musharraf himself admitted after the two failed attempts on his life in Rawalpindi late last year that army officials were involved in the conspiracy.

Musharraf reacted to the situation in a number of ways, including by court-martialing the renegade officials and sending officials who were not ready to go along with government\'s U-turn policy into early retirement. But this was not enough. Well-placed sources maintain that cases of indiscipline and defiance were so rampant after the South Waziristan operation [1] on the Afghanistan border this year that the government decided to deal with the situation with an iron fist, and has adopted a new modus operandi to deal with problem.

Under the new strategy, all those who were officially assigned to government-sponsored military training camps in the past, in Afghanistan and Pakistani Azad (Free) Kashmir, are now viewed as a threat to the government, and the process of \"cleansing\" them from the army has already begun. This includes both commissioned and non-commissioned army officials.

The basis of this new assumption is a study on all those who officially interacted with militants in training camps. Instead of cultivating the militants, the camps imbibed their radical influences and in many instances were found to be taking part in activities geared against Musharraf, Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz and other national targets. As a way to deal with these dissenters, for the first time in the history of Pakistan, defiant commissioned and non-commissioned army officials can be given the death penalty.

According to information from well-placed sources, the first death sentence was issued to soldier Muhammed Islam Siddiqi, army number 8831068, on October 20 by a military court. Among the number of charges laid, the most significant one relates to abetting a mutiny against Musharraf. Siddiqi is also charged with receiving terrorism training in Bhimber (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) during August 2002 at the \"Maasker\", a training camp of terrorist group Jaish-e- Mohammed; attempting to seduce a person in the military forces of Pakistan from his allegiance to the government of Pakistan; departing from Pakistan without a passport at the Pak-Afghan border; and maintaining associations with a tanzeem (organization) of Pakistan air-force personnel that was advancing a plot to eliminate Musharraf. He was caught in South Waziristan, where he refused to fight against the insurgent tribes.

It is interesting to note that in Azad Kashmir, sources say all jihadi camps have been closed by the Pakistani army and all past training operations that were part of the Inter-Services Intelligence\'s (ISI\'s) forward section operation, and those who were trained in the camps - whether operated by Jaish-e-Mohammed or any other organization - were subject to prior approval by ISI cell officials. Having said that, Siddiqi was posted there on official assignment. Even the banned Jaish-e-Mohammed (renamed as Khuddamul Islam) is still part of the 13-member United Jihad Council, supported by the government of Pakistan.

Sources say Siddiqi is a model case, with several other soldiers said to have secretly faced identical trials, who in many cases were also issued the death sentence. These cases indicate that the military leadership of the country has decided to open a Pandora\'s box to expose its men and their jihadi connections, with the aim of wiping the slate clean.

Apart from all other aspects of the charges, Siddiqi\'s case is indicative of the trends simmering within the Pakistani army. Announcing a death sentence for Siddiqi is symbolic of the struggle to oppress the growing voices of dissent, and how pro- and anti-US divisions have taken place within the army.

It is important to note, however, that conspiracies and defiance in the Pakistani army are not a new phenomenon; they have been occurring on a much broader scale, but a review on the handling of those cases indicates they were dealt with in a much less harsh manner:
In February 1951, 13 army officers and four civilians were arrested on conspiracy charges. The detainees included among others Chief of General Staff Major-General Akbar Khan, Air Commodore Mohammed Khan Janjua, Major-General Nazir Ahmed, Brigadier Siddiq Khan, Brigadier Latif Khan, Naseem Akbar Khan, and famous poet and then editor of the Pakistan Times Faiz Ahmed Faiz. They were accused of conspiring with communists and revolutionary elements to bring about a military takeover. After a few years of detention, all accused were set free. However, military personnel were expelled from service. The case is best known throughout Pakistan as the Rawalpindi conspiracy.
On January 6, 1968, the government announced that 28 people had been arrested on charges of hatching a plot to bring about the secession of East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). The accused also included naval official Lieutenant-Commander Muazzam Hussain, a non-commissioned seaman. The then president, Field Marshal Ayub Khan, released all accused after a few years\' jail. The case is known as the Agartala conspiracy.
Several officers of Pakistan\'s army and air force were arrested on March 30, 1973, on charges of conspiring to overthrow the government of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. The detainees included Major Farooq Adam, Major Nadir Pervez (who later became a federal minister in the Nawaz Sharif government), Brigadier Wajid Ali Shah, Colonel Hamdani, and Major Ayaz Sipra, and a total of 59 officers were declared conspirators. The case is well known as the Attock conspiracy. Fifteen army and four air-force officers were found guilty of conspiracy and were handed jail terms ranging from three months to life.
The Tajammul Hussain Malik conspiracy case is another example in which several military officials allegedly tried to launch a coup against the Zia ul-Haq government in 1980. The officers involved were set free after a plane crash in which General Zia ul-Haq died.
Several army officers were arrested on January 3, 1984, for hatching a conspiracy against the Zia ul-Haq government in connivance with India. The case is known as the Attock conspiracy case II. Several were freed because of a lack of evidence and a few were sentenced to jail.
Operation Khilafah is another case in which Major-General Zaheerul Islam Abbasi and other army officials allegedly try to topple Benazir Bhutto\'s government in the mid-1990s. The military court only sentenced the officials involved to a few years\' imprisonment, beside expelling the officers from service.

All of the above incidents appear to have been more serious than the one involving Siddiqi and the dozens of other recent cases in which several commissioned and non-commissioned officials were given extreme penalties - including death - demonstrating just how serious the situation really is.

Notes
[1] On US pressure, 70,000 Pakistani troops were deployed to the tribal areas on the Pak-Afghan border, where they fought a massive operation in South Waziristan in early 2004 against foreign fighters and their pro-Taliban supporters. However, despite air-force supremacy, the ratio of casualties on the government side remained very high and dozens of commissioned and non-commissioned officers refused to take part in action against tribals on religious grounds.

Asia Times Online - The best news coverage from South Asia

Pakistan faced lot of challenges from external and internal enemies, this article has no link with islamisation of Pak army.

PA has majority muslim employees and their source of motivation is islam , which is positive sign ,PA track record is golden ,they defeated india in 1965 and Russia in 1980-1985 .

Now again they will defeat internal terrorism within few months inshahallah
 
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If he did that, he was wrong. He was not infallable, nor perfect. For Muslims, the referrence point is Qur'an and the Sunnah. The Quaid was not learned in religion. Only his words that agree with Islam are acceptable, not others. This is Islam 101.

Imam Malik (a first century scholar from Medina) said, "The words of everyone can be accepted or rejected, accept the Prophet (peace be upon him)" (Muqaddimah Sifat Al-Salah)

Dear Sir,

Excuse me, but I suspect we are speaking at cross purposes. May I remind you that I did not question any point regarding Islam? I would not because I am not an expert on the subject. Please look back on Conscientous Objector's post: it was about Pakistan ka matlab kya. It was emphatically not about Islam.

My reference is to Pakistan alone. On that subject, it is not a question of religious interpretation, it is a question of the concept and the belief that its founding fathers had. I specifically refer to that and to that alone. This is about Politics 101, not Islam 101.

On the question of the independence movement, please be sure that I would not make a loose statement or an ill-considered one.

'Joe S.'
 
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Dear Sir,

I hope that you are aware that in a public meeting, the Qaid-e-Azam of Pakistan shouted down and forced to sit down a member of the audience who stood up and suggested that this slogan should be adopted by the AIML. Mr. Jinnah went on to say that neither he nor the League Council had ever endorsed these words, and that the member from the floor might have used it 'to catch a few votes'.

If you wish, I can give you precise references of this incident. Otherwise, you are free to look up the very elaborate discussion on PTH on the subject of Mr. Jinnah's intentions for Pakistan.

He is an inspiring figure, for Indians and Pakistanis alike (I am a loyal and patriotic Indian), and reading him and his views is highly recommended for all. I am not suggesting that he was super-human, but he towered above most other leaders of the independence movement. His words and sentiments must have some value, even in these diminished days.

'Joe S.'

Actually Allama Iqbal convinced our Qaid-e-Azam to lead the nation , cause and concept was very much clear in the mind of all muslims and leaders that Pakistan will be pure islamic state.

Pakistan was dream of Allama Iqbal , known as poet of east.

I salute wisdom of Qauid-e-Azam for giving us independence and Allah may give us strength to protect Pakistan from internal and external enemies.
 
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...... and Russia in 1980-1985 .

OMG, fund. Do u realize they helped install an ISLAMIST regime which implemented Sharia through the GUN, without going through all your blighted moderation steps?

And do u realize that it were the same greedy mullahs who were waging Jihad then. What made them into 'terrorists' post 9/11?

and BTW, the russians left later than 85.

Cant PA repeat its golden history by defeating America, which has killed its soldiers in barracks, and innocent civillians too?

Oh, i see...it's the coalition of the billing
 
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This is about Politics 101, not Islam 101.

As Iqbal said:

juda ho deen siyasat say to reh jati hai changezi

[When religion is seperated from politics...only Genghezism is left]

I wish politics had a 101....but never mind. Anything that seperated religion from politics deserves to be in Nick Sarkozy's bedroom
 
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As Iqbal said:

juda ho deen siyasat say to reh jati hai changezi

[When religion is seperated from politics...only Genghezism is left]

I wish politics had a 101....but never mind. Anything that seperated religion from politics deserves to be in Nick Sarkozy's bedroom

Dear Sir,

That was brilliant polemic, but less than adequate history or politics.

It appears that you have made up your mind about these issues already, and do not wish to be confused by the facts. Under the circumstances, I have nothing further to add.

'Joe S.'
 
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Actually Allama Iqbal convinced our Qaid-e-Azam to lead the nation , cause and concept was very much clear in the mind of all muslims and leaders that Pakistan will be pure islamic state.

Pakistan was dream of Allama Iqbal , known as poet of east.

I salute wisdom of Qauid-e-Azam for giving us independence and Allah may give us strength to protect Pakistan from internal and external enemies.

Where the Hell did you get that from? Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular state for the minorities of India, not an Islamic state just for the Muslims. If you want evidence of this, read his biographies, or just read his quotes.
 
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OMG, fund. Do u realize they helped install an ISLAMIST regime which implemented Sharia through the GUN, without going through all your blighted moderation steps?

Afghan people supported mullah omer to form government but later mullah omer proved his inability to run country.


And do u realize that it were the same greedy mullahs who were waging Jihad then. What made them into 'terrorists' post 9/11?

They supported OBL which was definately wrong decision.

and BTW, the russians left later than 85.

Cant PA repeat its golden history by defeating America, which has killed its soldiers in barracks, and innocent civillians too?

Oh, i see...it's the coalition of the billing

PA will repeat its golden history by defeating terrorist and their supporters.PA can also do the job which US and NATO failed to do .:enjoy:
 
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Where the Hell did you get that from? Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular state for the minorities of India, not an Islamic state just for the Muslims. If you want evidence of this, read his biographies, or just read his quotes.

Pakistan was created on the basis of two nation theory ,otherwise india is a secular state ,why we give sacrifice of million of lives,

In islamic state minorites have all the rights.Clear your concepts read few books on Independence of Pakistan

Ask any Pakistani who sacrificed every thing for Pakistan.He will clear your concepts ----
 
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Where the Hell did you get that from? Quaid-e-Azam wanted a secular state for the minorities of India, not an Islamic state just for the Muslims. If you want evidence of this, read his biographies, or just read his quotes.

@alirulesall123

Dear Sir,

You have summed it up succintly.

As a rule, I do not get involved in arguments with people who have not taken the trouble to do their basic homework, as these arguments soon become acrimonious and bitter, and generate more heat than light. From the tone of things, it is unlikely that you will get any reasonable responses.

I have already decided to drop the subject and not fight people's frozen in place prejudices.

However, since you are obviously conversant with the issues involved, there are a number of Pakistani fora in which there have been some brilliant discussions, absolutely outstanding, over the last few weeks. The level of learning displayed is easily at a university seminar level, and beyond, in fact.

I would be happy to send you references to them on PM, if you are interested. Be aware that the discussions are at a very interesting but very involved level.

Respectfully,

'Joe S.'
 
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Afghan people supported mullah omer to form government but later mullah omer proved his inability to run country.
Did u learn this from CNN or Fox? Even the US admits that they were the only regime able to eradicate poppy, something which even pakistan has not been able to do on its side of the border, nor the US in Afghanistan. Crime rate was a record low, but anyway its useless teaching you history. By any chance do u think Afghans themselves brought about regime change or was it the yanks and their B52's? You did not answer, why did Pakistan help install an ISLAMIST regime which implemented sharia through FORCE?

They supported OBL which was definately wrong decision.
Was it as bad as supporting Abu Ghraib and Bagram torturers?

PA can also do the job which US and NATO failed to do

but can't it take revenge for killing a dozen of its own soldiers and scores of civillians? Did u forget that many of our soldiers were killed by US in their bunker?

Its pathetic that u support US and NATO terrorists against your Muslim brothers. Shame on you
 
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First and foremost I would like to extend a warm welcome to brother yarmouk, Asalamualaykum brother. You have made a set of truly inspiring and extremely informative posts.Its clear that you are well informed of current affairs as well as historical events.

I'm also very pleased to see that you possess Islamic knowledge which is clear from your quotations of the Quran,ahadith, and statements of the Ulema.Truly refreshing brother welcome once again, and please do correct me if you notice any mistakes.



To proceed

Now this I disagree with completely. First, it smacks of insularity. Second, why can't a great scholar who is a non Muslim have an important contribution to make to Islamic theory? It's a little like saying that a non Englishman could not possibly have anything relevant to say on Shakespeare.


It may smack of insularity to the untrained eye but anyone with a little insight will see that my statement was balanced and objective for the following reasons.

The so called scholar in question is nothing but a charlatan who's sole purpose in life it seems is to distort the teachings of Islam.

He has misinterpreted Islamic injunctions/rulings in a way which is totally unacceptable.

No authentic Scholar of Islam has ever made the statements that he has.

He is not qualified in the least from an Islamic perspective to delve into Islamic sciences such as Tafseer and fiqh etc.

Its clear for all the above reasons that he is not sincere and is actively seeking to distort the pristine message of Islam.

Yes maybe we shouldn't say that no non Muslim can ever contribute to Islamic scholarship but in the case of the person in question my assertion still stands.

Dear Sir,

I hope that you are aware that in a public meeting, the Qaid-e-Azam of Pakistan shouted down and forced to sit down a member of the audience who stood up and suggested that this slogan should be adopted by the AIML. Mr. Jinnah went on to say that neither he nor the League Council had ever endorsed these words, and that the member from the floor might have used it 'to catch a few votes'.


No sir, I was not aware of the above account, but to be frank and not to put too finer a point on it, SO WHAT? Regardless of whether the slogan was endorsed by Muhammad Ali Jinnah or not the fact remains that this is the life blood of Pakistan, we are Muslims first and foremost and the Slogan "Pakstan ka mathlab kiya?" is representative of that.

If you wish, I can give you precise references of this incident. Otherwise, you are free to look up the very elaborate discussion on PTH on the subject of Mr. Jinnah's intentions for Pakistan.

No need for the above mentioned reasons,thanks but no thanks.

He is an inspiring figure, for Indians and Pakistanis alike (I am a loyal and patriotic Indian), and reading him and his views is highly recommended for all. I am not suggesting that he was super-human, but he towered above most other leaders of the independence movement. His words and sentiments must have some value, even in these diminished days.

'Joe S.'


Thanks for the contribution, I might if I get the time post some statements of Jinnah's where he spoke in favour of the creation of an Islamic state.
 
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I heard a very interesting debate last night on Geo TV ( a repeat) about Quaid e Azam and his ideas.

It was ironic to hear one of the Islamist party spokesman claiming that Quaid's view of Pakistan was of an Islamic state. A man who was despised by all the Islamists of the day such as Maulana Madani and Abul kalaam Azaad. Who never took part in the Khilaafat movement and who was dubbed Kafir-e azam by Maulana Maudoodi, is now claimed by MMA parties as well!!!. The very people who vehemently opposed creation of Pakistan are now claiming to be her guardians.

At least here both Indians and Pakistanis are the same. Mahatma Gandhi, who was symbol of non violence, who stood for the rights of the Harijans is now claimed by the most racist party of all ( BJP), the same people who as Jan Singh murdered him. His birth place of Gujrat votes in the vilest killer of innocent muslims in all of Indian historty ( Narender Modi) third time a row.

The people of subcontinent truly know how to twist the saying of their founding fathers to suit their purpose.

I can say for sure; and I can go as far back as 1951;when I started reading the Zamindaar and Imroze; the two dailies subscribed by my family: that the Pakistan we have today is not even a facsimile of the country the great Quaid envisaged; thanks to Zia, JI and MMA.-By Niaz
If it was not for Quaid Pakistan would not even exist today.Religious bigots opposed creation of Pakistan.
 
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Compare apple with apple , shocked again you are camparing terrorists with Shabah, are you on drugs?


If we are going to discuss lets do so in a concise manner by bringing facts to the table and not empty, emotional and unsubstantiated accusations.

For the record brother yarmouk was not comparing Sahaba (ra) to anybody in our present time, but what he was doing (brilliantly I must say) was giving an example of a historical event which is set as a precedence,and evaluating it with the current situation.It was in response to the assertion that rebellion against the state is never sanctioned in the Sharia.

I totally reject your all arguments , read about islam and islamic history and come back for discussion again.

This is what we here in the U.K call a "cop out", anyone can say "I totally reject all your arguments etc etc" but that's not enough, you should have the decency to state your reasons and explain why and bring references,and if your going to talk about Islam then quote the sacred texts, or the statements of the Ulema

Your all basis are wrong and against the teaching of islam , islam dont allow terrorism at any conditions.

Another "cop out" bring your proof if you are truthful? Lets make this discussion meaningful lets try and see through the distortions and reach the truth,and in order to do that we need to be objective.

Like the Ulema of Islam used to say "bring the evidence and then believe, don't believe and then bring the evidence"(in order to try and prove a preconceived notion).
 
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