How "Indigenous" is Dhruv/ALH?

[desiman]

You and HAL never had any credibility of speaking truth to start with other then ego satisfaction pathological lair statements such as "dhruv is "indigenously" Indian devloped chopper".

mods seem to conveniently miss these statements, very disappointing.

Are you going to answer my questions growler because to me your nothing than a kid with a computer and with some knowledge of copying and pasting.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Growler you were supposed to get back to me within a day with your answers, seems like you have conveniently forgotten that. Your arguments are still very much flawed and by calling every Indian a troll your are only showing your frustrations. Your figures keep changing and you attitude and language is insulting. Please answer the questions you were supposed to answer first.

What questions are you talking about that i have not answered? Last time I remember it was you who left the argument with baseless analogies. YOU have failed to post anything that the thread is asking and again I am not asking about analogies but Indian technical development contribution to the chopper. So far its only me who has come up with 10% of Indian contribution with Skahti engine which is developed by French and Indian engineers have or are taking training and technical know how knowledge to eventually assemble the engine at home.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

mods seem to conveniently miss these statements, very disappointing.

Are you going to answer my questions growler because to me your nothing than a kid with a computer and with some knowledge of copying and pasting.

Hypocrisy at its best. Desiman are you sure you have not made a personal attack in your same post that you are complaining about?

 

[desiman]

What questions are you talking about that i have not answered? Last time I remember it was you who left the argument with baseless analogies. YOU have failed to post anything that the thread is asking and again I am not asking about analogies but Indian technical development contribution to the chopper. So far its only me who has come up with 10% of Indian contribution with Skahti engine which is developed by French and Indian engineers have or are taking training and technical know how knowledge to eventually assemble the engine at home.

ok kid

1) You havent proven anything so i dont know what 10% your talking about. How one can even prove a percentage is unknown to me.
2) Go read the post in which you had told me that it will take take you one day to prove that the initial drawings and BOM's were not done in India by HAL. So you havent proven that because you cant therefore your argument is false.

3) 80% of your post are rebuttals in the form of personal attacks calling Indian liars and what not. You say the same things again and again just using different words. You have proved anything to anyone here.

 

[desiman]

Hypocrisy at its best. Desiman are you sure you have not made a personal attack in your same post that you are complaining about?

its the truth, you are very much a kid who has got access to the Internet and now claim to know how production and SCM is done in the real world. Reading random blogs and websites does not make you the production manager at HAL or anywhere else. You information is always partial and made up from cutting and pasting from different websites and you know that also. The level of your language and technical know how tells me that you have no idea about engineers or even business so arguing with you is worse than hitting your head oon a wall. When you cant come up with anything, you post the same things again and then come down to personally attacking everybody. Grow up and then come back.

 

[desiman]

Lol give me some time and i will post something more credible then this. ok? and then When I prove it to you that Dhruv was designed by MBB Germany and that the Sahkti engine the indians brag about being mostly Indian was designed by Turbomeca in France will you admit that you are just a DRDO fanboy?

This is what you said and you have conveniently forgotten it.

 

[Mahakaya]

My Indian Brothers - Y do you guys talk to this illiterate - Growler is not very smart as his name suggests so y do you guys bother!

Let him howl and cry his lungs out but the point remains we have overwhelming numerical and qualitative superiority and there is little that anyone can do about it let alone GROWLER - LET HIM GROWL AS MUCH AS HE WANT - WE KNOW HOW TO SHUT "PEOPLE LIKE HIM" UP! - REMEMBER LET UR ACTIONS DO THE TALKING! AND WITH ALL THE SUCCESSES PEOPLE LIKE HIM WILL GET JEALOUS SO I SUGGEST YOU GUYS LET HIM BE AND TALK TO HIMSELF!

He is the same guy who thinks JF-17 can become a stealth plane and does not want to give PAK-FA a leaway cos he thinks its intakes are not stealthy lol!!!!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ok kid

Wat up HAL fanboy

1) You havent proven anything so i dont know what 10% your talking about. How one can even prove a percentage is unknown to me.

It goes to show that you either lack the comprehension skills or you simply have not read the first page of the thread.

Offical site of Turbomeca France
Turbomeca, world leader in helicopter engines, has confirmed its strong link with India, following the signing of three major contracts concerning the Dhruv. This is the result of a longstanding and successful relationship between Hindustan Aeronautic Limited (HAL) and Turbomeca which began back in 1961, when the Turbomeca Artouste engine was first licensed to power the Indian Armed Forces’ Chetak (Alouette) and Cheetah (Lama) fleets. In February 2003, Turbomeca and HAL signed three major contracts One contract covers the co-development and co-production of Ardiden 1H (Indian name: Shakti) engines: a large number of Ardiden 1H / Shakti engines are expected to be produced. 11 % of the development will be carried by HAL out in India. A first batch of engines will be produced at Turbomeca, France, and progressively most part of the production will be transferred to India. As a consequence of this close cooperation between HAL and Turbomeca, Indian engineers are now learning all the Shakti production know-how at the site in Bordes, France, Turbomeca's headquarters.

___________

2) Go read the post in which you had told me that it will take take you one day to prove that the initial drawings and BOM's were not done in India by HAL. So you havent proven that because you cant therefore your argument is false.

What more is their to prove when MBB/Eurocopter did the R&D of the designing which is based on BK-117.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

its the truth, you are very much a kid who has got access to the Internet and now claim to know how production and SCM is done in the real world. Reading random blogs and websites does not make you the production manager at HAL or anywhere else. You information is always partial and made up from cutting and pasting from different websites and you know that also. The level of your language and technical know how tells me that you have no idea about engineers or even business so arguing with you is worse than hitting your head oon a wall. When you cant come up with anything, you post the same things again and then come down to personally attacking everybody. Grow up and then come back.

So you are turning into a personal attack mod but ironically you are doing a good job portraying yourself. And then you moan about personal attacks when you yourself is the cause of starting such attacks.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

This is what you said and you have conveniently forgotten it.

Oh again hypocrisy at its best. Let me help you with your memory.
This is what you have said earlier on.

can you prove to me once where it says that the BOM's or the structural drawing were done outside India. Prove to me this and you win, plain and simple as that. If you cant then you must keep your mouth shut.

I have already proved it to you that MBB/Eurocopter was responsible for designing of Dhruv which is based on BK-117.
So the only question I have to ask you now is, how does it feel to lose a debate?

 

[Areesh]

Great work growler. You always provide us with a lot of info about "Indigenous" is indian weapons.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Ha get a dose of reality:

Al Khalid - Type "What"+T80s that both Russia and China rejected!

JF-17 - FC1 - developed by a private org - care to shed some light as to what did PAK develop in its systems?

Corner Shot - Developed by the United States of America - stole by who?

Any one indigenous development from your side?

I do not even want to get into space research - Care to share where does PAK stand?

I also dont want to get into the Ballistic missiles and the N-tech - We have done it all BY OURSELVES - I Can point you to many news pieces which talk about HOW U GOT IT - But you are smart enough so I guess you can just USE GOOGLE!

Anything at all that you can call Indigenous I can rip it and blow it to smitherines!

WANT MORE?

Reported for irrelevant post which certainly violates the rules. If you wanna discuss about this matter then open a new thread and discuss about it but i dont think you have enough time for it because shortly you will this forum.

 

[desiman]

Wat up HAL fanboy

It goes to show that you either lack the comprehension skills or you simply have not read the first page of the thread.
Only special kids need to be taught the same thing over and over again before they can understand it.
I am always happy to help special cases.

___________

What more is their to prove when MBB/Eurocopter did the R&D of the designing which is based on BK-117.

OHHHHH now i understand why you have been jumping so much after reading that article, Ok kid let me explain to you how the industry works, this is production for idiots lol -

1) The development process your talking about in which HAL initially only had 11% contribution is not all what you think. Read that last 2 lines in what you quoted kid, the development process is referring to the production module not the research one.

Lets see how a product goes through its pre-production development process -



As you can see the manufacturing engineering process or the part where HAL had a 11% contribution earlier is only after the R & P, concept engineering, product engineering and cost sourcing process. The most major part of manufacturing engineering process is the determination of the minimum requirement of add-on parts. WHY? Because when HAL starts producing these engines locally and needs to source from local identities it must know what is the basic engineering and quality standards. A point emphasized in this diagram -

Turbomeca assisted HAL is determining a list of local suppliers so that HAL would not have to indulge in much International procurement, a point that I spoke about earlier.



In the "Full development process" HAL's contribution is immense and cannot be measured as a percentage mainly because research, R & P and concept engineering cannot be divided into percentages. These process are very complex and often involve a lot of co-operation between different entities. A kid like you will somehow try to give a percentage to research but its widely known in the industry that research cannot be divided into percentage points.

HAL is and was extensively involved in the Decomposition and Definition periods of both the Shakti engine and the Dhruv helicopter something that is verified by Janes. That is the most major point i have been trying to tell you, Turbomeca assisted HAL in redefining the production process so that production could commence in India at a cheaper cost but HAL is the main entity in both products. Turbomeca has never said that the Shakti engine is theirs or not HAL's and HAL cannot make statement saying that they made something that they dint. The industry does not work like that.

This diagram will show you how the whole production process works in tandem with Management. HAL was key in the first three steps and took Turbomeca 's help in the fourth step which is the concept feasibility process where the production concept is tested in a hostile environment to see if the same quality and price standards can be met.



As I have said before you have no knowledge of the production process and jump when you say something. You have based all your arguments on that 11% you saw even without researching what it meant. Next time think before you talk kid. Matter solved, Case Closed.

 

[ramu]

Desiman, you are the man... You are refreshing all the concepts I vaguely remember from my engineering.



Anyway, I have given up on Growler because he has two chips on each shoulder and he thinks he is balanced.

 

[desiman]

Desiman, you are the man... You are refreshing all the concepts I vaguely remember from my engineering.



Anyway, I have given up on Growler because he has two chips on each shoulder and he thinks he is balanced.

lol no problem anytime, dont worry i have seen men like him everywhere, im quite used to all this. Being a consultant myself i know how to handle kids like these on projects lol