How Far Behind Modernization of Bangladesh Armed Forces

[Spy Master]

No BD person ever claimed we have surpassed Pakistan in military field.
BD is ahead of Pakistan economy for sure and the gap will widen by 2030.
Once BD military is modernised by 2030, it will be as powerful as Pakistan conventionally.

What is your GDP? Current, don't give predictions like you did with that 2030 military prediction! Also, I saw many BD posters claiming that! for reference, read bilal9 posts!

Come on it will be on par with US and China.

I don't know how old he is or other BD members, but sometimes their claims are highly childish and laughable!

 

[EasyNow]

Just like every other institution in the country, the military needs massive modernisation but it has to be balanced with the rest of our development - we all know what happens when a military becomes disproportionately strong in this region.

 

[Avicenna]

No BD person ever claimed we have surpassed Pakistan in military field.
BD is ahead of Pakistan economy for sure and the gap will widen by 2030.
Once BD military is modernised by 2030, it will be as powerful as Pakistan conventionally.

Ok now think about what you just posted.

In what planet will Bangladesh be as "powerful" as Pakistan conventionally by 2030?

Just think about that statement. 12 years....

This thread has the usual assortment of Pakistani trolls/semi-trolls; but posts like this just add fuel to their fire.

I can't speak for the economy as I have no background knowledge on those topics, but militarily Bangladesh is FAR behind Pakistan and will remain so for the short to medium and I dare say long term.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Deliberate weakening of BD military is by design! The only Muslim country, which has shown how to remain militarily dead strong with a reasonable cost and indigenous military industrial complex, is Pak. However, BD is at loggerheads with Pak - and, that too by design!!! Hence, BD will be rushing to and for, but still will probably lack in generating that critical mass!!!!

BD better stick with lock-outs for they will need it against the Burmese air raids, and that too with FC-1s (=JF17s)....

 

[UKBengali]

Ok now think about what you just posted.

In what planet will Bangladesh be as "powerful" as Pakistan conventionally by 2030?

Just think about that statement. 12 years....

This thread has the usual assortment of Pakistani trolls/semi-trolls; but posts like this just add fuel to their fire.

I can't speak for the economy as I have no background knowledge on those topics, but militarily Bangladesh is FAR behind Pakistan and will remain so for the short to medium and I dare say long term.

I am well aware of what I posted.
If you do not agree just hurry along and stop wasting time with posts of zero value.

 

[mb444]

What is your GDP? Current, don't give predictions like you did with that 2030 military prediction! Also, I saw many BD posters claiming that! for reference, read bilal9 posts!


I don't know how old he is or other BD members, but sometimes their claims are highly childish and laughable!

Rather than wanting to start another silly flame war you could have got the information you sought every easily. but for your reference

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/bangladesh/pakistan

In a nutshell the main points

1. GDP

BD/PK on a 2016 base was $228bn/$278bn. The comparative populations were 162m/193m and GDP per capita was slightly in your favour at $1402/$1441.

BD economy has been growing steadily at around 6% on average for the last 20 years whilst Pakistans have fluctuated.

In 2017 BD edged ahead of you GDP per capita $1538/$1470, see economists report. This trend is likely to continue in BDs favour. Surpassing PK GDP in absolute terms will take a few more years if PK economic trend continues. IF PK economy stabilises and BD/PK grows similarly then it is likely that PK will remain the bigger economy in absolute terms. PWC estimates (link in the population section) that in 2050 economy on PPP basis will be $3.1tn/“$4.2tn. Your economy will be 33% larger than ours but with a 50% higher population the average BD will be richer than an average PK.

https://www.economist.com/news/asia...t-bangladeshs-gdp-person-now-higher-pakistans

2. Population

BD/PK population was 162m/193m in 2016, however in 1990 we had the larger population and the numbers were 107m/105m. PWC (link attached) projects population in 2050 to be 202/309. your population will be 50% more than us.

We spend similar amount percentage wise in education but we spend more on health. Difference in life expectancy between BD/PK using 2015 as a base is 72 years/ 66 Years... the average BD lives more than half a decade longer than a average PK.

https://www.pwc.com/world2050

However its not all rosy news for us as our population density is amongst the highest in the world at 1104 per sq km compared to only 243 for you. This will worsen for us and without much space climate change challenges would be significant.

However there is the Bangladesh paradox where even with lower level of GDP many of our social indicators are better than our neighbours. This is due to longterm policy decisions to encourage inclusive growth, for details refer to article below.

http://www.effective-states.org/wp-...ESID-Briefing-Paper-27-Bangladesh-Paradox.pdf

3. Debt and Defense

BD/PK debt in absolute terms is £70bn/£188bn on a 2016 base. With a slightly larger economy you are carrying debt burden that is 150% greater than ours. On a per capita basis this is reflected as $435/$974. Debt ratio as a percentage of GDP is 33%/67%. Your capacity to borrow is much less than ours and internationally our credit rating is better, in 2017 national rating were Ba3/B3.

Defence expenditure between BD/PK in 2016 is $3.2bn/$10.1bn. BD is unlikely to ever catch up.

4. Trade

Export in 2016 between BD/PK was $34bn/$20bn and import was $41bn/$47bn. You are running a trade deficit as reflected by forex reserves of $32bn/$12bn in our favour. When you combine this with the huge debt you are carrying, PK has significant challenges in the years ahead.

In terms of doing business BD represents a better destination however in terms of human capital ranking, corruption and competitiveness PK is better than BD.

However in terms of fragility index PK is significantly worse than BD... the 2015 comparison between BD/PK is 92/103.

So to summarise BD economically have already surpassed PK and this gap will only grow. Both nations remain desperately poor and requires good governance and foresight to become developed nations. BD and PK have had different challenges and have responded to them in their own terms.

BD is not a shining beacon of development but it is the birthplace of microcredit and it has despite all the hurdles is progressing. It has long shed the "basket case" image and may one day be called the shinning beacon of development. You and your ilk can continue to hang on to your racial narrative and take comfort in the perception of BD broken by the tumult of partition of 1947 and independence war of 1971, it does not matter, it has not and do not define us or impede our progress.

 

[Avicenna]

I am well aware of what I posted.
If you do not agree just hurry along and stop wasting time with posts of zero value.

Yea i don't agree.

Now carry on and keep giving fuel to these trolls.

 

[bluesky]

Come on it will be on par with US and China.

Forget about US and China, can Pakistan or India become at par with them? In our case, we are at least much better than what we were forced to accept the military status before 1971. East Pakistan had not even one Division of troops. Only 5 Sabre jets, and almost no Navy.

Comparing to those, we are much much stronger now, and 2030 is not very far. By this period, the BAF procurement will take up speed for sure. Please reflect yourself what I said on pre-1971. Tax and export money earned in the east was freely spent in the west also when it is military expenditures as if the money was someone's Bap ka Maal.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Deliberate weakening of BD military is by design! The only Muslim country, which has shown how to remain militarily dead strong with a reasonable cost and indigenous military industrial complex, is Pak. However, BD is at loggerheads with Pak - and, that too by design!!! Hence, BD will be rushing to and for, but still will probably lack in generating that critical mass!!!!

BD better stick with lock-outs for they will need it against the Burmese air raids, and that too with FC-1s (=JF17s)....

I would disagree and say turkey. Pakistan got nothing on turkey’s capability, industrial, technical, military and economic.

 

[SipahSalar]

Rather than wanting to start another silly flame war you could have got the information you sought every easily. but for your reference

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/bangladesh/pakistan

In a nutshell the main points

1. GDP

BD/PK on a 2016 base was $228bn/$278bn. The comparative populations were 162m/193m and GDP per capita was slightly in your favour at $1402/$1441.

BD economy has been growing steadily at around 6% on average for the last 20 years whilst Pakistans have fluctuated.

In 2017 BD edged ahead of you GDP per capita $1538/$1470, see economists report. This trend is likely to continue in BDs favour. Surpassing PK GDP in absolute terms will take a few more years if PK economic trend continues. IF PK economy stabilises and BD/PK grows similarly then it is likely that PK will remain the bigger economy in absolute terms. PWC estimates (link in the population section) that in 2050 economy on PPP basis will be $3.1bn/$4.2bn. Your economy will be 33% larger than ours but with a higher population the average BD will be richer than an average PK.

https://www.economist.com/news/asia...t-bangladeshs-gdp-person-now-higher-pakistans

2. Population

BD/PK population was 162m/193m in 2016, however in 1990 we had the larger population and the numbers were 107m/105m. PWC (link attached) projects population in 2050 to be 202/309. your population will be 50% more than us.

We spend similar amount percentage wise in education but we spend more on health. Difference in life expectancy between BD/PK using 2015 as a base is 72 years/ 66 Years... the average BD lives more than half a decade longer than a average PK.

https://www.pwc.com/world2050

However its not all rosy news for us as our population density is amongst the highest in the world at 1104 per sq km compared to only 243 for you. This will worsen for us and without much space climate change challenges would be significant.

However there is the Bangladesh paradox where even with lower level of GDP many of our social indicators are better than our neighbours. This is due to longterm policy decisions to encourage inclusive growth, for details refer to article below.

http://www.effective-states.org/wp-...ESID-Briefing-Paper-27-Bangladesh-Paradox.pdf

3. Debt and Defense

BD/PK debt in absolute terms is £70bn/£188bn on a 2016 base. With a slightly larger economy you are carrying debt burden that is 150% greater than ours. On a per capita basis this is reflected as $435/$974. Debt ratio as a percentage of GDP is 33%/67%. Your capacity to borrow is much less than ours and internationally our credit rating is better, in 2017 national rating were Ba3/B3.

Defence expenditure between BD/PK in 2016 is $3.2bn/$10.1bn. BD is unlikely to ever catch up.

4. Trade

Export in 2016 between BD/PK was $34bn/$20bn and import was $41bn/$47bn. You are running a trade deficit as reflected by forex reserves of $32bn/$12bn in our favour. When you combine this with the huge debt you are carrying, PK has significant challenges in the years ahead.

In terms of doing business BD represents a better destination however in terms of human capital ranking, corruption and competitiveness PK is better than BD.

However in terms of fragility index PK is significantly worse than BD... the 2015 comparison between BD/PK is 92/103.

So to summarise BD economically have already surpassed PK and this gap will only grow. Both nations remain desperately poor and requires good governance and foresight to become developed nations. BD and PK have had different challenges and have responded to them in their own terms.

BD is not a shining beacon of development but it is the birthplace of microcredit and it has despite all the hurdles is progressing. It has long shed the "basket case" image and may one day be called the shinning beacon of development. You and your ilk can continue to hang on to your racial narrative and take comfort in the perception of BD broken by the tumult of partition of 1947 and independence war of 1971, it does not matter, it has not and do not define us or impede our progress.

The fact that after nearly 50 years of independence Bangladesh's GDP is still 20% smaller than Pakistan raises a lot of questions. Bangladeshis need to ask their govt the answers to these questions. Why is it that Bangladesh's GDP is not at least 30% or 40% more than Pakistan's? I will list several challenges that Pakistan has faced and continues to face which Bangladesh does not.

Pakistan faces existential threat from India and hostilities from Afghanistan/US while Bangladesh is allied with India. Therefore Pakistan spends 3.5% of its GDP on defence, Bangladesh spends 1.25%. So Pakistan needs to spend nearly 300% more than Bangladesh on its defense.

On top of that we have an advanced nuclear and missile program. Its budget is separate from the defence budget, and it eats up billions of dollars to maintain, manufacture and research. Bangladesh has no need to spend on either of these programs.

Pakistan has been fighting a tough and brutal war since the last 15 years. They had to spend billions of dollars on fighting the insurgency with 150,000 troops deployed to fight the insurgency, that deployment is nearly the size of the entire Bangladeshi army.

Not to mention the 30,000 civilians and security personnel killed. Property and financial losses estimated at around $120 billion. Scared away foreign investors, destroyed tourism. Bangladesh faced no such challenges.

We also had to bear the burden of nearly 6 million Afghan refugees for nearly 40 years. Who brought drugs and crime with them. Huge burden on an economy of a poor country like Pakistan. Bangladesh has hardly hosted the 500,000 Rohingya for a year and its already hurting them.

We also had to face military and economic sanctions at various periods. Pakistan was heavily sanctioned in the 90's due to its nuclear program. Our economy was really hurt by the sanctions. Even now there is talk of Pakistan being added to the FATF again after being on it from until 2015. On top of that Pakistan has a negative image in a lot of countries through out the world. So Pakistan faces a lot of hostilities on the international stage. Bangladesh has never faced sanctions of this sort. And it also has a positive world image with several western countries holding it up as an example.

Despite all these advantages then, why hasn't been Bangladesh able to perform much better than Pakistan? Yes, it is ahead of Pakistan and India in HDI, but in robust economic terms, its still a much smaller economy than Pakistan. And to be honest, i personally don't think it's going to change any time soon. Pakistan's GDP growth is projected at 5.7% while Bangladesh at 7.1%. That's not an earth shattering difference. Add to that the $64 billion China is investing in China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, The Iran Pipeline, the TAPI pipeline, the 60% reduction in terrorism and the Afghan refugees going back to Afghanistan. Pakistan's economic progress is most likely to accelerate even more. I am not saying Bangladesh cannot overtake Pakistan's economy, I'm just saying the ground indicators don't seem the suggest so at the moment.

So again in the end that brings me back to my first question. Where has all this money been going in Bangladesh? Why hasn't Bangladesh been able to leverage all these advantages to more economic progress? People need to grab their govt officials by the collar and ask them some hard questions. With the advantages Bangladesh had, it should have had at least 20% larger GDP than Pakistan at this time.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Rather than wanting to start another silly flame war you could have got the information you sought every easily. but for your reference

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/bangladesh/pakistan

In a nutshell the main points

1. GDP

BD/PK on a 2016 base was $228bn/$278bn. The comparative populations were 162m/193m and GDP per capita was slightly in your favour at $1402/$1441.

BD economy has been growing steadily at around 6% on average for the last 20 years whilst Pakistans have fluctuated.

In 2017 BD edged ahead of you GDP per capita $1538/$1470, see economists report. This trend is likely to continue in BDs favour. Surpassing PK GDP in absolute terms will take a few more years if PK economic trend continues. IF PK economy stabilises and BD/PK grows similarly then it is likely that PK will remain the bigger economy in absolute terms. PWC estimates (link in the population section) that in 2050 economy on PPP basis will be $3.1tn/“$4.2tn. Your economy will be 33% larger than ours but with a 50% higher population the average BD will be richer than an average PK.

https://www.economist.com/news/asia...t-bangladeshs-gdp-person-now-higher-pakistans

2. Population

BD/PK population was 162m/193m in 2016, however in 1990 we had the larger population and the numbers were 107m/105m. PWC (link attached) projects population in 2050 to be 202/309. your population will be 50% more than us.

We spend similar amount percentage wise in education but we spend more on health. Difference in life expectancy between BD/PK using 2015 as a base is 72 years/ 66 Years... the average BD lives more than half a decade longer than a average PK.

https://www.pwc.com/world2050

However its not all rosy news for us as our population density is amongst the highest in the world at 1104 per sq km compared to only 243 for you. This will worsen for us and without much space climate change challenges would be significant.

However there is the Bangladesh paradox where even with lower level of GDP many of our social indicators are better than our neighbours. This is due to longterm policy decisions to encourage inclusive growth, for details refer to article below.

http://www.effective-states.org/wp-...ESID-Briefing-Paper-27-Bangladesh-Paradox.pdf

3. Debt and Defense

BD/PK debt in absolute terms is £70bn/£188bn on a 2016 base. With a slightly larger economy you are carrying debt burden that is 150% greater than ours. On a per capita basis this is reflected as $435/$974. Debt ratio as a percentage of GDP is 33%/67%. Your capacity to borrow is much less than ours and internationally our credit rating is better, in 2017 national rating were Ba3/B3.

Defence expenditure between BD/PK in 2016 is $3.2bn/$10.1bn. BD is unlikely to ever catch up.

4. Trade

Export in 2016 between BD/PK was $34bn/$20bn and import was $41bn/$47bn. You are running a trade deficit as reflected by forex reserves of $32bn/$12bn in our favour. When you combine this with the huge debt you are carrying, PK has significant challenges in the years ahead.

In terms of doing business BD represents a better destination however in terms of human capital ranking, corruption and competitiveness PK is better than BD.

However in terms of fragility index PK is significantly worse than BD... the 2015 comparison between BD/PK is 92/103.

So to summarise BD economically have already surpassed PK and this gap will only grow. Both nations remain desperately poor and requires good governance and foresight to become developed nations. BD and PK have had different challenges and have responded to them in their own terms.

BD is not a shining beacon of development but it is the birthplace of microcredit and it has despite all the hurdles is progressing. It has long shed the "basket case" image and may one day be called the shinning beacon of development. You and your ilk can continue to hang on to your racial narrative and take comfort in the perception of BD broken by the tumult of partition of 1947 and independence war of 1971, it does not matter, it has not and do not define us or impede our progress.

Will you be godfather’s friend!?

 

[mb444]

The fact that after nearly 50 years of independence Bangladesh's GDP is still 20% smaller than Pakistan raises a lot of questions. Bangladeshis need to ask their govt the answers to these questions. Why is it that Bangladesh's GDP is not at least 30% or 40% more than Pakistan's? I will list several challenges that Pakistan has faced and continues to face which Bangladesh does not.

Pakistan faces existential threat from India and hostilities from Afghanistan/US while Bangladesh is allied with India. Therefore Pakistan spends 3.5% of its GDP on defence, Bangladesh spends 1.25%. So Pakistan needs to spend nearly 300% more than Bangladesh on its defense.

On top of that we have an advanced nuclear and missile program. Its budget is separate from the defence budget, and it eats up billions of dollars to maintain, manufacture and research. Bangladesh has no need to spend on either of these programs.

Pakistan has been fighting a tough and brutal war since the last 15 years. They had to spend billions of dollars on fighting the insurgency with 150,000 troops deployed to fight the insurgency, that deployment is nearly the size of the entire Bangladeshi army.

Not to mention the 30,000 civilians and security personnel killed. Property and financial losses estimated at around $120 billion. Scared away foreign investors, destroyed tourism. Bangladesh faced no such challenges.

We also had to bear the burden of nearly 6 million Afghan refugees for nearly 40 years. Who brought drugs and crime with them. Huge burden on an economy of a poor country like Pakistan. Bangladesh has hardly hosted the 500,000 Rohingya for a year and its already hurting them.

We also had to face military and economic sanctions at various periods. Pakistan was heavily sanctioned in the 90's due to its nuclear program. Our economy was really hurt by the sanctions. Even now there is talk of Pakistan being added to the FATF again after being on it from until 2015. On top of that Pakistan has a negative image in a lot of countries through out the world. So Pakistan faces a lot of hostilities on the international stage. Bangladesh has never faced sanctions of this sort. And it also has a positive world image with several western countries holding it up as an example.

Despite all these advantages then, why hasn't been Bangladesh able to perform much better than Pakistan? Yes, it is ahead of Pakistan and India in HDI, but in robust economic terms, its still a much smaller economy than Pakistan. And to be honest, i personally don't think it's going to change any time soon. Pakistan's GDP growth is projected at 5.7% while Bangladesh at 7.1%. That's not an earth shattering difference. Add to that the $64 billion China is investing in China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, The Iran Pipeline, the TAPI pipeline, the 60% reduction in terrorism and the Afghan refugees going back to Afghanistan. Pakistan's economic progress is most likely to accelerate even more. I am not saying Bangladesh cannot overtake Pakistan's economy, I'm just saying the ground indicators don't seem the suggest so at the moment.

So again in the end that brings me back to my first question. Where has all this money been going in Bangladesh? Why hasn't Bangladesh been able to leverage all these advantages to more economic progress? People need to grab their govt officials by the collar and ask them some hard questions. With the advantages Bangladesh had, it should have had at least 20% larger GDP than Pakistan at this time.

If I was to pose questions to GOB on its performance I would question why have our development not kept pace with the likes of Malaysia. PK is irrelevant and certaintly not a barometer that BD needs to judge itself with... I merely provided freely available data for the sake of this argument.

You keep harping on with the same delusions such as BD economy being "much smaller" when it is not.

Unless you can provide counter argument to internationally recognised research that counters the basic fact that now the average BD is richer than an average PK and this gap will simply grow for the foreseeable future and that currently the average BD lives 6 years longer than an average PK, I will quite simply not engage further.

You guys accuse BD of not being able to provide credible facts. These have been supplied, counter it lucidly, shut up or run your mouth off and make a fool out of yourself..... its irrelevant...BD is looking ahead and PK has no part in our calculus.

 

[SipahSalar]

If I was to pose questions to GOB on its performance I would question why have our development not kept pace with the likes of Malaysia.

Why stop at Malaysia? Why not compare with Germany and Japan then? I compared it with Pakistan because we inherited similar systems from the British have shared history. Bangladesh has more in common with Pakistan than with Malaysia.

You keep harping on with the same delusions such as BD economy being "much smaller" when it is not.

It is though, its GDP is 20% smaller than Pakistan.
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/bangladesh/pakistan

Unless you can provide counter argument to internationally recognised research that counters the basic fact that now the average BD is richer than an average PK and this gap will simply grow for the foreseeable future and that currently the average BD lives 6 years longer than an average PK, I will quite simply not engage further.

A country's economic strength is not measured by how rich an average citizen is. If that was the case than everyone saying China is the 2nd biggest economy in the world is an idiot, and Qatar is the worlds most powerful economy. It is the GDP size that gives a nation its strength. It is % GDP which decides how much you will spend on defense.

As for the average lifespan. That is an outlier. Pakistan has one of the worlds highest infant mortality rate. Once you correct that, and it is very easy to correct, the average lifespans between our countries would be more or less the same.

You guys accuse BD of not being able to provide credible facts.

Everything I said is based on facts, point out anything false in my statement.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The only Muslim country, which has shown how to remain militarily dead strong with a reasonable cost and indigenous military industrial complex, is Pak.

You are humiliating your own country.

 

[bluesky]

The fact that after nearly 50 years of independence Bangladesh's GDP is still 20% smaller than Pakistan raises a lot of questions. Bangladeshis need to ask their govt the answers to these questions. Why is it that Bangladesh's GDP is not at least 30% or 40% more than Pakistan's? I will list several challenges that Pakistan has faced and continues to face which Bangladesh does not.

So, why BD GDP is still smaller than Pakistan? It is because west Pakistan had a headstart in 1971. When BD had less than $10b GDP, Pakistan had more than $15b GDP. BD GDP was smaller then by about 35%, and now it is 20% behind. I hope you understand the significance. Our GDP will be about $500 billion in the next 12 years. So, will BD be behind Pakistan that time when the latter's GDP is rising only @3% per anum? My calculation says Pakistan GDP will be about $420 billion after 12 years, 17.5% less than BD's.