How effective is DF21 series of anti ship ballistic missiles

[Vapour]

Not sure why this thread is in the Pak Navy section unless it's a hint that PN is getting these?

They're ineffective because they require an intricate network of sensors and communications nodes for them to work, all of which will be targeted and destroyed in a high-intensity conflict.

If such weapons worked, India would've built and fielded them a long time ago.

@LeGenD Please can you comment on the veracity of above member's claim.

 

[LeGenD]

There r lot of things china can throw at US and vice versa ...
C802
Yj12.
And many more supersnoic cruise missile

The USN have fielded a number of vessels that are capable of detecting, tracking and intercepting a salvo of both ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in a theater of operations in the present. The Arleigh Burke class destroyer(s) demonstrated this level of sensor fidelity and target engagement capacity in 2014.

There were skeptics back then.

When Houthi rebels began to target shipping activities near Yemen with sea-skimming cruise missiles (C-801 and C-802 variants) in 2016, the USN took its chances with them. The USS Mason defeated volley after volley of sea-skimming cruise missiles directed towards it on 3 separate occasions with a combination of both hard-kill and soft-kill technologies. The USS Nitz subjected Houthi coastal defenses including relevant radar systems to counterstrikes as well. In other words, two Arleigh burke class destroyers were employed to deplete and degrade the capability and capacity of Houthi rebels to threaten shipping activities to large extent. This was by no means an ordinary accomplishment for even a high-tech naval force because sea-skimming cruise missiles are among the most elusive and difficult-to-intercept targets in existence.

Gentle reminder: https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...ian-anti-ship-missile-friendly-fire-accident/

They are also well-equipped to take out supersonic cruise missiles, satellites, jet fighters, UAVs, and maneuverable warheads. Even more.

The USN vessels are sensor-netted to each other (Cooperative Engagement Capability) to achieve excellence in situational awareness and have the capacity to detect, track and neutralize a wide range of threats should the need arise. The USN is the FIRST (and only naval force in the world) to achieve reliable CEC on a mass scale. Others are much behind in this game with proto-demonstrations in the present.

Another thing is that some members here tend to imagine one-dimensional scenarios in which the USN is on the receiving-end of things. Why should WE assume this to be the case? Do people not understand that USN have excellent long-distance decapitating strike capacity and could also be the aggressor? Should they attack defenses of even a near-peer adversary in force, they will be able to erode much the defenses in the process. So even if there are casualties in the exchange, the USN will manage to turn the tide of a high-stakes conventional war. Tactics and capabilities go hand-in-hand.

 

[The Accountant]

The USN have fielded a number of vessels that are capable of detecting, tracking and intercepting a salvo of both ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in a theater of operations in the present. The Arleigh Burke class destroyer(s) demonstrated this level of sensor fidelity and target engagement capacity in 2014.

There were skeptics back then.

When Houthi rebels began to target shipping activities near Yemen with sea-skimming cruise missiles (C-801 and C-802 variants) in 2016, the USN took its chances with them. The USS Mason defeated volley after volley of sea-skimming cruise missiles directed towards it on 3 separate occasions with a combination of both hard-kill and soft-kill technologies. The USS Nitz subjected Houthi coastal defenses including relevant radar systems to counterstrikes as well. In other words, two Arleigh burke class destroyers were employed to deplete and degrade the capability and capacity of Houthi rebels to threaten shipping activities to large extent. This was by no means an ordinary accomplishment for even a high-tech naval force because sea-skimming cruise missiles are among the most elusive and difficult-to-intercept targets in existence.

Gentle reminder: https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...ian-anti-ship-missile-friendly-fire-accident/

They are also well-equipped to take out supersonic cruise missiles, satellites, jet fighters, UAVs, and maneuverable warheads. Even more.

The USN vessels are sensor-netted to each other (Cooperative Engagement Capability) to achieve excellence in situational awareness and have the capacity to detect, track and neutralize a wide range of threats should the need arise. The USN is the FIRST (and only naval force in the world) to achieve reliable CEC on a mass scale. Others are much behind in this game with proto-demonstrations in the present.

Another thing is that some members here tend to imagine one-dimensional scenarios in which the USN is on the receiving-end of things. Why should WE assume this to be the case? Do people not understand that USN have excellent long-distance decapitating strike capacity and could also be the aggressor? Should they attack defenses of even a near-peer adversary in force, they will be able to erode much the defenses in the process. So even if there are casualties in the exchange, the USN will manage to turn the tide of a high-stakes conventional war. Tactics and capabilities go hand-in-hand.

Again, ur analysis is based on USN response to houthi and u applying that to China ... In which world china and houthi capabilities are even comparable?

Secondly all these scenarios are based on US attacking china mainland as China never shows any plan to attack US mainland. Its the other way around for which USN has to engage through carrier strike group and hence most likely scenario is china v/s US carrier strike group.

Whatever preparation US have and irrespective of the effectiveness of the system it is limited by logistics. Only a limited number missiles are available on carrier strike group. On the other hand china has many options available due to easier logistics

 

[LeGenD]

@LeGenD Please can you comment on the veracity of above member's claim.

In a recent test, both DF-21D and DF-26 reportedly struck a ship of unknown size. This level of precision would not be possible in absence of advanced communications infrastructure such as Beidou network and course-correction capabilities of the reentry vehicle (maneuvering aspect).

The Indian part of the comment is hilarious though.

 

[striver44]

Not good enough, US admirals urged China to continue invest in one.

 

[shanlung]

The USN have fielded a number of vessels that are capable of detecting, tracking and intercepting a salvo of both ballistic missiles and cruise missiles in a theater of operations in the present. The Arleigh Burke class destroyer(s) demonstrated this level of sensor fidelity and target engagement capacity in 2014.

There were skeptics back then.

When Houthi rebels began to target shipping activities near Yemen with sea-skimming cruise missiles (C-801 and C-802 variants) in 2016, the USN took its chances with them. The USS Mason defeated volley after volley of sea-skimming cruise missiles directed towards it on 3 separate occasions with a combination of both hard-kill and soft-kill technologies. The USS Nitz subjected Houthi coastal defenses including relevant radar systems to counterstrikes as well. In other words, two Arleigh burke class destroyers were employed to deplete and degrade the capability and capacity of Houthi rebels to threaten shipping activities to large extent. This was by no means an ordinary accomplishment for even a high-tech naval force because sea-skimming cruise missiles are among the most elusive and difficult-to-intercept targets in existence.

Gentle reminder: https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...ian-anti-ship-missile-friendly-fire-accident/

They are also well-equipped to take out supersonic cruise missiles, satellites, jet fighters, UAVs, and maneuverable warheads. Even more.

The USN vessels are sensor-netted to each other (Cooperative Engagement Capability) to achieve excellence in situational awareness and have the capacity to detect, track and neutralize a wide range of threats should the need arise. The USN is the FIRST (and only naval force in the world) to achieve reliable CEC on a mass scale. Others are much behind in this game with proto-demonstrations in the present.

Another thing is that some members here tend to imagine one-dimensional scenarios in which the USN is on the receiving-end of things. Why should WE assume this to be the case? Do people not understand that USN have excellent long-distance decapitating strike capacity and could also be the aggressor? Should they attack defenses of even a near-peer adversary in force, they will be able to erode much the defenses in the process. So even if there are casualties in the exchange, the USN will manage to turn the tide of a high-stakes conventional war. Tactics and capabilities go hand-in-hand.

What happening with all the super duper Murican defense state of art systems that being flogged and touted here by others and you as well?:


Against a few miserable subsonic missiles?

Murican state of art defense systems unable to swat them down?

And you pretending Murica got no problem at all against Mach15-20 thingies coming down at them from high courtesy deliveries made by DF21 and DF26 together with Mach 3 AShMs popping up over the horizon by the hundreds?

Because Murica got no problem in swatting down a few Houthi missiles ?

Therefore no sweat for Murica to kick sand in face of China with phony FONOPs and to bully China and to turn their pushing into real shoving?

Drone hits eastern Saudi port, missile targets Aramco facilities: Energy Ministry

 

[White and Green with M/S]

What happening with all the super duper Murican defense state of art systems that being flogged and touted here by others and you as well?:


Against a few miserable subsonic missiles?

Murican state of art defense systems unable to swat them down?

And you pretending Murica got no problem at all against Mach15-20 thingies coming down at them from high courtesy deliveries made by DF21 and DF26 together with Mach 3 AShMs popping up over the horizon by the hundreds?

Because Murica got no problem in swatting down a few Houthi missiles ?

Therefore no sweat for Murica to kick sand in face of China with phony FONOPs and to bully China and to turn their pushing into real shoving?

Drone hits eastern Saudi port, missile targets Aramco facilities: Energy Ministry

Don't overestimate yourself and underestimate your enemy brother

What happening with all the super duper Murican defense state of art systems that being flogged and touted here by others and you as well?:


Against a few miserable subsonic missiles?

Murican state of art defense systems unable to swat them down?

And you pretending Murica got no problem at all against Mach15-20 thingies coming down at them from high courtesy deliveries made by DF21 and DF26 together with Mach 3 AShMs popping up over the horizon by the hundreds?

Because Murica got no problem in swatting down a few Houthi missiles ?

Therefore no sweat for Murica to kick sand in face of China with phony FONOPs and to bully China and to turn their pushing into real shoving?

Drone hits eastern Saudi port, missile targets Aramco facilities: Energy Ministry

And those drone attacks by iranian suicide UAVs by the Houthis on Saudi oil fields are nothing
Those oil fields are using Old version of patriot PAC-2 which lack algorithm and software to intercept low flying/low RCS UAVs

 

[shanlung]

Don't overestimate yourself and underestimate your enemy brother

And those drone attacks by iranian suicide UAVs by the Houthis on Saudi oil fields are nothing
Those oil fields are using Old version of patriot PAC-2 which lack algorithm and software to intercept low flying/low RCS UAVs

Against a few miserable subsonic missiles?

Murican state of art defense systems unable to swat them down?



And you pretending Murica got no problem at all against Mach15-20 thingies coming down at them from high courtesy deliveries made by DF21 and DF26 together with Mach 3 AShMs popping up over the horizon by the hundreds?

Because Murica got no problem in swatting down a few Houthi missiles ?

Therefore no sweat for Murica to kick sand in face of China with phony FONOPs and to bully China and to turn their pushing into real shoving?



BREAKING : Drone hits eastern Saudi port, missile targets Aramco facilities: energy ministry

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Against a few miserable subsonic missiles?

Murican state of art defense systems unable to swat them down?



And you pretending Murica got no problem at all against Mach15-20 thingies coming down at them from high courtesy deliveries made by DF21 and DF26 together with Mach 3 AShMs popping up over the horizon by the hundreds?

Because Murica got no problem in swatting down a few Houthi missiles ?

Therefore no sweat for Murica to kick sand in face of China with phony FONOPs and to bully China and to turn their pushing into real shoving?



BREAKING : Drone hits eastern Saudi port, missile targets Aramco facilities: energy ministry

Use your brain if you have they have layered defense systems so if One system misses the targets others defense systems can takes over and intercept and supersonic and hypersonic weapons are easier to detect and counter because they have limited agility manuervability because of their speed

You have no logic I am sorry to say brother

 

[shanlung]

Use your brain if you have they have layered defense systems so if One system misses the targets others defense systems can takes over and intercept and supersonic and hypersonic weapons are easier to detect and counter because they have limited agility manuervability because of their speed

You have no logic I am sorry to say brother

You rather be impressed with your own brand of logic!
Same kind of logic that made India supra powa!

Are you an Indian flying false flag??

Your logic very very indianish to me

Do not mind my thinking so!
And even if you do mind, like I give a flying f**k to that

 

[IblinI]

There r lot of things china can throw at US and vice versa ...
C802
Yj12.
And many more supersnoic cruise missile

people focused on a certain missile but it's actually a whole eco system which is the foundation, therotically, all missiles belonged to rocket force is interchangeble between conventional/ anti-ship capabilitiy, and this is exactly what PLA is working on.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

You rather be impressed with your own brand of logic!
Same kind of logic that made India supra powa!

Are you an Indian flying false flag??

Your logic very very indianish to me

Do not mind my thinking so!
And even if you do mind, like I give a flying f**k to that

No brother you're not thinking critical and technically we if you gain a speed you lose maneuverability and agility why the most of the fighter jets top speed is under mach-2

And why mig 25/SR-71/mig-31 has/had a maneuverability of less than 5Gs

This is a simple physics that you not trying to understand

 

[IblinI]

Both have uses.

DF-26 is IRBM class with 4000 KM range.

FYI

They are dangerous and capable strike platforms no doubt but one must be mindful of the capabilities of the enemy you are wargaming in theory and practice.

FYI

Americans have also fielded a large number of interceptors by now. Just the SM-3 interceptor class inventory exceed 400 in count in the present.

There are also soft-kill technologies to account for which can be very effective as well.

REFERENCES

https://www.jhuapl.edu/Content/techdigest/pdf/V23-N2-3/23-02-Grant.pdf

Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The Navy's Ever-Evolving Aegis Combat System

We go in-depth with Lockheed's point man on Aegis about the combat system's revolutionary past, evolving present, and universal future.

www.thedrive.com

The day that PLA relied on a certain "game changer, aircraft carrier killer" has long gone, we are building up the foundation (jet,ship,tank) as well as working on all frontier tech such as AI,laser, Electro-magnetic,orbital vehicle,etc.. same as USA, and this game will not last only a decade but century.

 

[LeGenD]

Again, ur analysis is based on USN response to houthi and u applying that to China ... In which world china and houthi capabilities are even comparable?

Bro,

You have numbers and optics in mind, and I have technologies and documented capabilities in mind. Your contention is that the PLAN have an assortment of cruise missiles to engage the USN in open waters (I am aware of this and have seen relevant charts but this theme was not a part of this topic); I simply pointed out to you that USN have the capability to intercept cruise missiles as well. Maybe you have something big in your mind but I have mentioned CEC to you as well - you may study CEC to understand how the USN is equipped to fight a near-peer adversary in open waters. American security considerations are shaped by experiences such as World Wars and the Cold War and they are very likely to take Chinese military advances seriously.

I mentioned Houthi because they had an arsenal of sea-skimming cruise missiles at their disposal and were in the position to threaten regional shipping activities until USN intervened. Whether a sea-skimming cruise missile is released from a Houthi-operated TEL or from a PLAN warship, the missile will do its job. In both cases, TARGET must be technologically capable of neutralizing this kind of threat and this is where Aegis Combat System comes into play. It is not wise to underestimate well-armed asymmetric forces; they can be excellent teachers and can stress-test even finest armies in the battlefield. Do you recall incident of INS Hanit in 2006 at the hands of Hezbollah? Just one sea-skimming cruise missile was involved in this incident. Houthi were able to subject USS Mason to a volley of sea-skimming cruise missiles in their THIRD attempt to sink it (5 in total) but USS Mason was able to counter this level of assault as well. This is proof of the fact that Aegis Combat System make it possible for the host vessel to neutralize cruise missiles by and large. This is the point - nothing more.

Secondly all these scenarios are based on US attacking china mainland as China never shows any plan to attack US mainland. Its the other way around for which USN has to engage through carrier strike group and hence most likely scenario is china v/s US carrier strike group.

Whatever preparation US have and irrespective of the effectiveness of the system it is limited by logistics. Only a limited number missiles are available on carrier strike group. On the other hand china has many options available due to easier logistics

Logistics is one of the strongest aspects of the American war-machine. The USN have global footprint and active in all oceans of the world - they have a large number of high-performance naval ships as well as docking points.

7th and 3rd fleets can be mobilized for potential confrontations in the Pacific on short notice. You are looking at a force of well over 100 warships and submarines in this case. Japan and Australia can also reinforce this force upon formal request from USA (they are very likely to). You can do the math now.

Now - I don't think USA and China will attack each other (neither camp is interested in a war for the sake of it). If there is a possibility of conflict between these two countries, it is very likely to be fought over Taiwan and will be limited in scope and objectives accordingly. And this might not happen either.

 

[Iñigo]

Qian Xuesen trajectory ...

Qian Xuesen - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

... is no tipycal ballistic

USN missile SM-3 ... we have to suspect that was designed to defend "our colonial project" (Jabotinsky)

The chinese missile are another question: