How do indian muslims see pakistan.

[MultaniGuy]

Most Indian Muslims see Pakistan as a foreign land.

 

[Rajput Warrior]

Let me clarify few mis-conception about Muslim of India prevalent among few members in this forum.

1. First of all the situation of Muslim in India is not as bad as statics point out. Yes there is poverty(and this is peculiarity of the entire subcontinent) ..less then 2% participation in Govt job, even private sector firm hesitate in Muslim employment but since the time of Independence Muslim have tend to rely more on self employment. Own business has been key and now a days with the shrinking of govt job , Muslim are better placed.

So you have 2% representation in govt jobs.

2% in military.

And a negligible on in national assemble of India.

You claim about Indian Muslims being self employed, and yet statistics show Indian Muslims (largest Indian minority) being the poorest?

yes there is increase in vocal hatred and more assertive RSS but remember Muslim since Independence have been facing this.. the difference is earlier there was no media and the discrimination was hidden. Majority of Muslims in India as else where in World (for example Birmigham in UK)have just confined themselves to Ghettos and this has both positive and negatives impacts. Positive in the sense that its give security. Even in the Gujarat riots.. Kalupur or juhapura (the old Ahmedabad) in Ahmedabad were the places where Hindus were at receiving end.these areas also acted as shelter to the riot hits Muslim from else where... In every Major city , there are Muslims Ghettos many of whom are taunted as Mini Pakistan...

Because ?

2. Regarding , the so called racial superiority of Pathans and Punjabis expressed by certain member over Indian Muslim. Well I can just laugh on them.. just remember Majority of Mughals , Turks,Persian and Arabs who have came to india whether in the form of Armies/Sufi's/intellectual/aristocrat have settled in the present day India. I can assure you that total population of real Sadat present in Uttar Pradesh will out number the total real Sadaat of Pakistan. Talking about the culture and language, well the truth is the culture of Muslim developed in City like Delhi, Lucknow, Hyderabad, Bhopal is the model which has been regarded as the best of Subcontinent and not of Lahore or any other city of present day Pakistan. Urdu has reached its climax in these cites .

And I'm sure India has more Pashtun wannabes than entire Pak and Afghanistan combined,Aswell as more Arabs than Arabia, more Persians than Persia.

Along with ashraf and ajlaf concept.

How many Indian Muslims out of 16 crore are Mughals,descendants of saints (which we have in hundreds buried on our soil, Multan is just one example, called the city of saints).

And since when did Indians become Persians ? Do you think nadir shah whose army was Pashtun came and bred Persians in India and remained there ?

How many Indians are Turks ? Considering even the Turks had Pashtun soldiery and generals ?

Syed's?lol

We are Panjabis,Baloch,Sindhi,Pashtun,Hazara,Balti,Shina,Khowar,Pamiri,Qazalbash(yeah real Persian speakers),Kurd,Tajik etc.

What do you have on us ?

And guess what?

Even Mughals allied with Pashtuns and Panjabi chieftains.

You are invaders ?

Lol more like low caste concerts sprinkled with a few defendants of Mughals (which are also in Pak, and not really superior in any way).


As for Hyderabad etc, sir we don't really care, Urdu isn't even our mother tongue yet we in the past 7 decades have done more for it than you Indian Muslims combined, irrespective of the funny language spoken in Hyderabad "mian, chuku or hoooray,jaaray".

And Lahore is the cultural capital of northern subcontinent. You are South Indians.

4. Now coming to the question of Indian Muslim views toward Pakistan.. Well as pointed out by someone , it depend upon the segment of population you are talking about. . Muslim intelligentsia who have knowledge of history and Partition view Punjabis and Pathans of NWFP as untrusworthy and unreilable.. when revolt of 1857 was fought and Muslim of UP, Delhi etc were laying there life for the restoration of Muslim rule in subcontintent ..the ppl of Punjabs and Pathans were not only sitting idle but were the soldier fighting for Britisher..... Lakhs of Muslim were slaughtered in Delhi and Uttar Pradesh.. there land being confiscated but the ppl of Punjabs and NWFP were serving there Hindus/Sikh and British Masters. It was sheer cowardice that has let the 10% of Sikh established there empire in Punjab and NWFP which later resulted in sale of Kashmir to HIndu Raja by the Britisher.

Now since you have mentioned it 1957, let me educated you of the massive rebellion by Panjabi tribes lead by Rai Ahmed Khan Kharral , where dozen of thousands men took arms.

https://defence.pk/threads/punjab-and-the-rebellion-of-1857.446224/#post-8623046

And even in 57, Panjabi Muslims rebelled, although not the Sikhs who were high on religious predicts of Khalsa rising and revenge for the fall of Panjab.

Even in Partition is viewed as Betrayal ... the core based of Muslim leagues since its formation have been ppl of present day North India(UP, Delhi, Bihar etc) ...the support from Punjabis and NWFP came just before partition... the original proposal envisage undivided Punjab which include himachal , Indian Punjab, Haryana and Delhi)... When the proposal for division of Punjab was accepted it was all lost for Indian Muslim..and they finally lost the trust.

So who stopped you from coming ?

Millions of Panjabis from eastern Panjab did.

Maybe you were too chicken to fight for independence or to come to Pakistan.

And it was actually the Bengalis who stated the movement not up cp, although the nawab of Hyderabad surely did support Pakistan. And after 47, lost his state to a barbaric "police action" by Indian troops.

There are many Muslim who share some love for Pakistan based on Ummah but with the increase interaction this is fast receding owing to arrogance displayed by Pakistanis .

People here actually felt bad for you.

But times are changing, the ummah concept to the educated is long gone.

Finally a note for some arrogant poster who believe in some sort of racial superiority ...Remember Indian Muslim and not Pakistanis are descendant of Muslim invaders who have entered India. However, the fact remain overseas we all are treated as brown ppl...and for white all are racially same..

Sure you indian Muslims surely do look like Persians,Arabs,Pashtuns and central Asians right? Ironic.

You must be Persian who came and settled with nadir shah who raided northern India with his Pashtun troops and went back?

No wait you are decendents of Arab saints , all 16 crore of you?

No wait, you are Pashtuns all 16 crore of you , who can't even understand Pashto? (No wonder afridi made fun of you).

No? Oh Okay, you must be all Mughals ?

No,no sure Turks ? Children of Aibak whose soldiery and generals were also from modern day Pak-Afghanistan?

No?

 

[Pakistani E]

Some Pakistanis are so delusional I swear, it gets nauseating sometimes. I've interacted with many Indian Muslims, and there is quite a large community not far from me, they absolutely do not interact too much with Pakistanis apart from the usual greetings etc. Even their mosques are different, they don't allow non Indian Muslim to even get on their Mosque boards. I had several friends/acquaintances from amongst Gujurati Muslims, never did I ever hear them praise Pakistan. They are mostly Pro-Indian, and the ones who are not religious, do not come anywhere near Pakistanis.

My Experience. Please note, your experience may vary.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Some Pakistanis are so delusional I swear, it gets nauseating sometimes. I've interacted with many Indian Muslims, and there is quite a large community not far from me, they absolutely do not interact too much with Pakistanis apart from the usual greetings etc. Even their mosques are different, they don't allow non Indian Muslim to even get on their Mosque boards. I had several friends/acquaintances from amongst Gujurati Muslims, never did I ever hear them praise Pakistan. They are mostly Pro-Indian, and the ones who are not religious, do not come anywhere near Pakistanis.

My Experience. Please note, your experience may vary.

Some Pakistanis are so delusional I swear, it gets nauseating sometimes. I've interacted with many Indian Muslims, and there is quite a large community not far from me, they absolutely do not interact too much with Pakistanis apart from the usual greetings etc. Even their mosques are different, they don't allow non Indian Muslim to even get on their Mosque boards. I had several friends/acquaintances from amongst Gujurati Muslims, never did I ever hear them praise Pakistan. They are mostly Pro-Indian, and the ones who are not religious, do not come anywhere near Pakistanis.

My Experience. Please note, your experience may vary.

Your experience is different to mine. I have many Gujuratis Muslims friends and although they do not have an opinion about Pakistan, except cricket as they are very loyal Indian cricket fans they certainly interact with Pakistanis! I personally know a Shiekh (pir) a Pakistani who has dozens upon dozens of Gujurati Muslims followers. i have witnessed this from Gujarati groups of the Deobandi and Bralvi Hanafi groups.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Some Pakistanis are so delusional I swear, it gets nauseating sometimes. I've interacted with many Indian Muslims, and there is quite a large community not far from me, they absolutely do not interact too much with Pakistanis apart from the usual greetings etc. Even their mosques are different, they don't allow non Indian Muslim to even get on their Mosque boards. I had several friends/acquaintances from amongst Gujurati Muslims, never did I ever hear them praise Pakistan. They are mostly Pro-Indian, and the ones who are not religious, do not come anywhere near Pakistanis.

My Experience. Please note, your experience may vary.

My experiance tallies with yours. They are just Indian's. Period. A small 'fringe' that is totally religious will interact but then this fringe will have Somali, Arab, African, Tunisian, Malay all together in ummah love.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

Some Pakistanis are so delusional I swear, it gets nauseating sometimes. I've interacted with many Indian Muslims, and there is quite a large community not far from me, they absolutely do not interact too much with Pakistanis apart from the usual greetings etc. Even their mosques are different, they don't allow non Indian Muslim to even get on their Mosque boards. I had several friends/acquaintances from amongst Gujurati Muslims, never did I ever hear them praise Pakistan. They are mostly Pro-Indian, and the ones who are not religious, do not come anywhere near Pakistanis.

My Experience. Please note, your experience may vary.

The Maolana who taught me the holy Quran, A Gujurati makes regular visits to Pakistan. He recently built a huge orphanage in KPK. I also spoke to an elderly Gujurati gentleman at my local masjid and the conversation turned towards marriages, he told me he and many amoungst his community were very much agaisnt their children ever marrying a Pakistani in the 1980s and 1990s. To the Gujurati community it was completely frowned upon if someone they knew married a Pakistani. He said his opinions and others in the Gujurati community (not all) changed as time went by, they seem to have softened their reluctance and opposition of Indian Gujurati and Pakistani marriages.

 

[Avijit]

So you have 2% representation in govt jobs.

2% in military.

And a negligible on in national assemble of India.

You claim about Indian Muslims being self employed, and yet statistics show Indian Muslims (largest Indian minority) being the poorest?


Because ?




And I'm sure India has more Pashtun wannabes than entire Pak and Afghanistan combined,Aswell as more Arabs than Arabia, more Persians than Persia.

Along with ashraf and ajlaf concept.

How many Indian Muslims out of 16 crore are Mughals,descendants of saints (which we have in hundreds buried on our soil, Multan is just one example, called the city of saints).

And since when did Indians become Persians ? Do you think nadir shah whose army was Pashtun came and bred Persians in India and remained there ?

How many Indians are Turks ? Considering even the Turks had Pashtun soldiery and generals ?

Syed's?lol

We are Panjabis,Baloch,Sindhi,Pashtun,Hazara,Balti,Shina,Khowar,Pamiri,Qazalbash(yeah real Persian speakers),Kurd,Tajik etc.

What do you have on us ?

And guess what?

Even Mughals allied with Pashtuns and Panjabi chieftains.

You are invaders ?

Lol more like low caste concerts sprinkled with a few defendants of Mughals (which are also in Pak, and not really superior in any way).


As for Hyderabad etc, sir we don't really care, Urdu isn't even our mother tongue yet we in the past 7 decades have done more for it than you Indian Muslims combined, irrespective of the funny language spoken in Hyderabad "mian, chuku or hoooray,jaaray".

And Lahore is the cultural capital of northern subcontinent. You are South Indians.



Now since you have mentioned it 1957, let me educated you of the massive rebellion by Panjabi tribes lead by Rai Ahmed Khan Kharral , where dozen of thousands men took arms.

https://defence.pk/threads/punjab-and-the-rebellion-of-1857.446224/#post-8623046

And even in 57, Panjabi Muslims rebelled, although not the Sikhs who were high on religious predicts of Khalsa rising and revenge for the fall of Panjab.




So who stopped you from coming ?

Millions of Panjabis from eastern Panjab did.

Maybe you were too chicken to fight for independence or to come to Pakistan.

And it was actually the Bengalis who stated the movement not up cp, although the nawab of Hyderabad surely did support Pakistan. And after 47, lost his state to a barbaric "police action" by Indian troops.




People here actually felt bad for you.

But times are changing, the ummah concept to the educated is long gone.



Sure you indian Muslims surely do look like Persians,Arabs,Pashtuns and central Asians right? Ironic.

You must be Persian who came and settled with nadir shah who raided northern India with his Pashtun troops and went back?

No wait you are decendents of Arab saints , all 16 crore of you?

No wait, you are Pashtuns all 16 crore of you , who can't even understand Pashto? (No wonder afridi made fun of you).

No? Oh Okay, you must be all Mughals ?

No,no sure Turks ? Children of Aibak whose soldiery and generals were also from modern day Pak-Afghanistan?

No?

Bhai muje to ye samaj ni ati ki tumhe kis baat ka guroor hai? Of the fact that you've a manipulated history? That most of you have false beliefs about your descents?

Just to break your bubble with one example, there are 7 million Sayyids in India, only a million less than you.

And I'm stating facts unlike your flimsy assumptions.

Get your head out of your tashreef.

About Muslim economic situation in India, let me tell you guys, the problem with Indian Muslims is themselves. Most don't want to get up and compete with the rest of Indians for jobs or anything else to move out of their situation. They are Indian nationals who have the same opportunities as any other Indian, I mean there isn't even a question of that. They have the potential. They have the same brain as any human. I know so many Muslims from very modest kind of families who studied Design with me at National Institute of Design, Ahmedabad (which is a very unconventional career choice even today for most Indians).
So they have it in them. They just need to fight their odds.

 

[Śakra]

Never really understood why so many muslims stayed back in India in 1947

Only the wealthy ones could afford to move. This is also why Muslims in India are so impoverished.

Low..very low..much of the religous scum in Pakistan like Mardoodi were imported from India...much of the military scum like Zia and Mushraff were also imported from India...much of the civilian political scum like Nawaz, Bhutto, Altaf , are all indian imports..Indian Muslims politics have been a pain in @ss before partition as they resorted to declaring Jinnah as kaffir.

We had to give you a parting gift.

Thanks for the apology, accepted and let's move on. Bhindranwale wasn't a Khalistani either, please read more about him (Asin khalistan mangde nai, par je uh dinnde ne te mana vi nai karde) Congress pushed that agenda for political gains and then dropped it when it became inconvenient. I respect his views on religion (amrit sanchar and bringing youths back to Sikhism from cutting their hair).

Srs question, if you are bald do u still wear a turbin? Is there any exceptions? Do women also wear turbines?

 

[ZenBird]

if you are bald do u still wear a turbin? Is there any exceptions?

It is spelled as "turban" and yeah you do wear one if you are bald. The point is to keep the body in the state in which it was created and to give a distinct identity so that a Sikh can be identified in a crowd. Exceptions - medical reasons, maybe? Depends on the interpretation of the Sikh, old timers would decline medical attention and prefer to die than have to cut their hair. Most modern Sikhs would ask for forgiveness and get baptized again after getting medical help.

Do women also wear turbines?

Some do, depends on the Gurdwara where you get baptized but 99.99% don't. They dress like women from other religions but don't cut their hair.

 

[Finer]

Same way Majority of Indian Muslims did in 1940? After all, Pakistan came from India.

Those who are pro-Pakistan will try to be patriotic towards India, and those who are neutral might favor Pakistan in their minds and hearts secretly. Those who are anti-Pakistani only to prove in front of India since India never accepted them as their own despite their choosing India over Pakistan during the partition.

There are lots of factors involved. Since the emergence of Modi, that does put some perspective now, and to serve reminder what led to the creation of Pakistan in the first place.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

It is spelled as "turban" and yeah you do wear one if you are bald. The point is to keep the body in the state in which it was created and to give a distinct identity so that a Sikh can be identified in a crowd. Exceptions - medical reasons, maybe? Depends on the interpretation of the Sikh, old timers would decline medical attention and prefer to die than have to cut their hair. Most modern Sikhs would ask for forgiveness and get baptized again after getting medical help.



Some do, depends on the Gurdwara where you get baptized but 99.99% don't. They dress like women from other religions but don't cut their hair.

I've had some interaction with 3 Afghan Sikhs recently. Really nice people and educated. We instantly got on due to our shared Punjabi heritage.

 

[ZenBird]

I've had some interaction with 3 Afghan Sikhs recently. Really nice people and educated. We instantly got on due to our shared Punjabi heritage.

In general Punjabis on both sides get along with each other really well. South Indians seem to be curious about us and even look up to us and generally don't have a problem. It's the rest of India which seems to have a major chip on their shoulders and a Hindutva agenda.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

It is spelled as "turban" and yeah you do wear one if you are bald. The point is to keep the body in the state in which it was created and to give a distinct identity so that a Sikh can be identified in a crowd. Exceptions - medical reasons, maybe? Depends on the interpretation of the Sikh, old timers would decline medical attention and prefer to die than have to cut their hair. Most modern Sikhs would ask for forgiveness and get baptized again after getting medical help.



Some do, depends on the Gurdwara where you get baptized but 99.99% don't. They dress like women from other religions but don't cut their hair.

There's a lot of respect showen twords the Sikh pilgrims visiting Pakistan.

 

[ZenBird]

There's a lot of respect showen twords the Sikh pilgrims visiting Pakistan.

Same here bro, Punjabis on this side are fascinated with Pakistanis. They's heard tales from their grandparents growing up about how everybody used to get along and Punjab used to be united. Everytime somebody from Pakistan comes over (like for a cricket match), people fight to host them in their homes.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

In general Punjabis on both sides get along with each other really well. South Indians seem to be curious about us and even look up to us and generally don't have a problem. It's the rest of India which seems to have a major chip on their shoulders and a Hindutva agenda.

I agree although there is a slight difference between our punjabis as the Afghan Sikhs speak Kabli Punjabi their culture was pretty much the same. We always talk about food. Out of respect as the Afghan Sikhs are pure vegans I only discuss food dishes which do not contain any meat such as lentils rice etc....

Same here bro, Punjabis on this side are fascinated with Pakistanis. They's heard tales from their grandparents growing up about how everybody used to get along and Punjab used to be united. Everytime somebody from Pakistan comes over (like for a cricket match), people fight to host them in their homes.

My grandparents were from Jullunder and town called Pagwara.