How different a Bengali Muslim is from a Pakistani Muslim?

[Zibago]

What is this ashraf thing??Is it some kind of a race??

Keeping it inside the biradri/caste
Its stricest among Syeds

Brother this bhumari mongol is decendent of mughal but obviously also mixed with natives. He is proud mughal bihari, nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. He is at least honest and not claiming fake linages.

He was mughal

He looks just like an ordinary brown skin desi

 

[Syed_Adeel]

I read in PDF that Bengalis are way different from Pakistanis. I wonder how different are Bengalis compared to Pakistanis? Isn't Pakistan itself a multi ethnic country with several different cultures? Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun, Baloch, Tribal culture etc.

I will try not be biased and share a neutral info as much as possible.

I line in Dubai where you can easily find so many Indians, Pakistanis and Bengalis every where.
When all people are present at one place then definitely they will have communications and relations with each others.

My office boy, mechanic, maid, ex room cleaner and some other people in circle are bengalis and i know their mentality very well.

I found that Pakistani's are a lot different than Bengalis in every aspect.

1) Looks (Pakistanis are generally taller and fair)
2) Pakistanis are much educated then them (starting from taxi drivers to CEO and business men)
3) Attitude: (Both have a lot of corruption in them but in UAE specially bengalis surpass Pakistanis in small frauds)

There are a lot other small observations which i cant explain as general characteristic, but i found SOME Bengalis obsessed with Pakistanis and they always try to compare their self with Pakistan. As every one knows that despite their education and good economic progress, there is a long way for them to become equivalent to Pakistan.

In the end,despite my disagreement with Indian policies and propaganda, i found that some Indian people of specific cities like Delhi are more similar to Pakistanis in their language, lifestyle, professional skills or education etc.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Brother this bhumari mongol is decendent of mughal but obviously also mixed with natives. He is proud mughal bihari, nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. He is at least honest and not claiming fake linages.

I actually went into arguments because of his 100% percent pure Mongol comment. If you are expert of genetic then you know very well that if there were few inter-racial marriages in past then it dont change much about that race unless it happen very frequent generation after generation. This superiority claim is the main reason if you see most people claiming fake lineage to be part of superior race

well i dont mind his proud in his heritage/lineage as long as he stay humble and know that all these things are just there for idenity and its not something make u superior or inferior over others

 

[Kabira]

I actually went into arguments because of his 100% percent pure Mongol comment. If you are expert of genetic then you know very well that if there were few inter-racial marriages in past then it dont change about that race unless it happen very frequent generation after generation. This superiority claim is the main reason if you most people claiming fake lineage to be part of superior race

well i dont mind his proud in his heritage/lineage as long as he stay humble and know that all these things are just there for idenity and its not something make u superior or inferior over others

Think from Bihari pov, there ashraf muslims (muslims with foreign decent) are elites among them. So it doesn't matter if they think they are superior to ajlaf. But its funny when lohars claim to be mughals in punjab and something they are clearly not socially lmao

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Think from Bihari pov, there ashraf muslims (muslims with foreign decent) are elites among them. So it doesn't matter if they think they are superior to ajlaf. But its funny when lohars claim to be mughals in punjab and something they are clearly not socially lmao

and how you see the Mughul claim of those Mirza baigs and chagatai in Punjab ?

 

[Kabira]

and how you see the Mughul claim of those Mirza baigs and chagatai in Punjab ?

They are fake ones, every mughal I have seen in rural areas work as lohar in my experience. Chagtasi and mugahls in Lahore are originally lohars from rural areas who moved to cities.

 

[Zibago]

and how you see the Mughul claim of those Mirza baigs and chagatai in Punjab ?

Chugtais have that slight Asiatic look but i dont see that in Mirzas

Brother I am superior to no one, I am sorry if I came across this way. We Muslims are all equal, I am just proud of my ancestors like you are proud of yours


Mughal royals mixed with Hindu princesses for political alliances. Many also had affairs with tawaifs

Sons of tawaif never became kings

 

[bongbang]

Think from Bihari pov, there ashraf muslims (muslims with foreign decent) are elites among them. So it doesn't matter if they think they are superior to ajlaf. But its funny when lohars claim to be mughals in punjab and something they are clearly not socially lmao

What you guys dont understand is during British time Bengal went through lot of social upliftment. Our thought process is different than rest of the people who went through onslaught of British later. When Bengal was subjugated we gradually left these outdated clannish terms. Bihar nawabs were still intact. They used these ashraf ajlaf terms and their claim of mughalites are fresher than us. And the more you go west these lohar, tawaif, chagtasi, pashtuns these types of clannish tribal system we have no clue of.

 

[Kabira]

What you guys dont understand is during British time Bengal went through lot of social upliftment. Our thought process is different than rest of the people who went through onslaught of British later. When Bengal was subjugated we gradually left these outdated clannish terms. Bihar nawabs were still intact. They used these ashraf ajlaf terms and their claim of mughalites are fresher than us. And the more you go west these lohar, tawaif, chagtasi, pashtuns these types of clannish tribal system we have no clue of.

Muslim Bangladeshis were working on hindu brahmin lands, correct me if I'am wrong. The reason Pakistan movement was popular among Bangladeshis is because of their social position under British empire. So pretty much all of current day Bangladeshis were peasants working on brahmin lands.

 

[HttpError]

Most punjabis who claim these ancestry are low caste converts or landless peasants kammi type people you find in cities. Couple of weeks ago I meet someone with Khan surname, he and his whole family looked like christians. Only Butts who are of kashmiri decent and few Kasuri pathans are likely what they say but their population is minimum. Rest are local converts and punjabis who look psudo middle eastern are just high caste converts. People say Raheel Sharif look like Sadam Hussain but he is rajput and they don't claim any foreign ancestry.

Being a Rajput I can affirm it. Real Rajputs never put any claim to any foreign ancestry we are indigenous people to this land. I don't know but I heard people in our clan keeps book of all the blood line called " Shajar-e-nasb" Not sure if they still keep it.

 

[Samandri]

They who were rulers and from army settled in the region. Many of us are their lineage. So what is your point exactly? We ruled ourselves and who are rulers over our ancestors?

The point is, Pashtuns did have significant role in contribution towards Islam in Bengal, you cant shrug it off merely as some tribesmen in service of others or products of Turks. Afghan saints and Ulemas also accompanied Afghan rulers and settlers into Bengal.

Most of the Bengalis, do not claim to be descendants of Pashtuns and there is reason for that. In 1614, when Afghan chiefs Bayazid Karrani, Anwar Khan and Usman Khan were defeated by Mughals and they lost their chiefdoms (Sylhet, Baniachang etc), bulk of the Afghans/Pashtuns migrated from Bengal to Deccan Sultanates. Whatever descendants of Pashtuns live in Bengal today, are mostly descendants of Pashtun mansabdars of Mughals who were given jagirs in Bengal. For example Saeed Khan Panni was given Atia Pargana (Tangail district) by Mughal emperor Jehangir and among his descendants are Wajid Ali Khan Panni aka Chand Mian, 'the Bengal's second Muhsin'. From Baharistan Ghaibi, we come to know that two out of three members of advisory board of Mir Jumla, the Mughal governor of Bengal, were Pashtuns/Afghans and Afghan contingents were employed by him for difficult Assam campaigns.

Historical mosque built by Saeed Khan Panni in Atia in 1609

 

[Kabira]

Chugtais have that slight Asiatic look but i dont see that in Mirzas
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This is clearly not true, there are dozens of well known Pakistani punjabi chugtais and non of them look even slightly asiatic. They look who they are, lohars.

 

[Saiful Islam]

The point is, Pashtuns did have significant role in contribution towards Islam in Bengal, you cant shrug it off merely as some tribesmen in service of others or products of Turks. Afghan saints and Ulemas also accompanied Afghan rulers and settlers into Bengal.

Most of the Bengalis, do not claim to be descendants of Pashtuns and there is reason for that. In 1614, when Afghan chiefs Bayazid Karrani, Anwar Khan and Usman Khan were defeated by Mughals and they lost their chiefdoms (Sylhet, Baniachang etc), bulk of the Afghans/Pashtuns migrated from Bengal to Deccan Sultanates. Whatever descendants of Pashtuns live in Bengal today, are mostly descendants of Pashtun mansabdars of Mughals who were given jagirs in Bengal. For example Saeed Khan Panni was given Atia Pargana (Tangail district) by Mughal emperor Jehangir and among his descendants are Wajid Ali Khan Panni aka Chand Mian, 'the Bengal's second Muhsin'. From Baharistan Ghaibi, we come to know that two out of three members of advisory board of Mir Jumla, the Mughal governor of Bengal, were Pashtuns/Afghans and Afghan contingents were employed by him for difficult Assam campaigns.

Historical mosque built by Saeed Khan Panni in Atia in 1609

I don't know how invested you are in the role of Islam in Bengal, but Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier by Richard Eaton would be worth checking out. Very interesting.

 

[bongbang]

Muslim Bangladeshis were working on hindu brahmin lands, correct me if I'am wrong. The reason Pakistan movement was popular among Bangladeshis is because of their social position under British empire. So pretty much all of current day Bangladeshis were peasants working on brahmin lands.

100 years ago too Muslims were less than 50% in Bengal. You can realize how many percent they were 100 years more before. And can safely assume who worked as peasants and converted to get rid of brahmin exploitation. If you marry 4 wives and give birth to 20 children within a decade you have an army.

 

[Centaur]

Enough with the brotherhood crap.

Bangladeshis are Indians first & last foremost.

Pakistanis are well.... Pakistanis.

You need to study history carefully. We are not indians,we never was.but our ancestors are first to last devoted Pakistani until Pakistan lost 1971 war.
It is not the fault of East Pakistanis but for worthless military regime failed to understand Indian propaganda. And some power hungry leaders like mujib and Bhutto Pakistan is divided.
Why Pakistani govt recognize bangladesh as indipendant country so soon while China didn't recognize it by claiming that India forcefully capture east Pakistan?
Was Pakistan ashamed that she can't keep her peoples safe and free from Indian prey?
So before bashing bengalis(by calling them Indian!) please read history. Brotherhood is not crap for everyone. But yes in both side some peoples are brain washed by India I guess now.
Neither west Pakistanis were oppressor nor former east Pakistanis were traitors ,we all should realize it.
Now Bangladesh is a reality and maybe there is no way to reunite again (East & West)but most of Bangladeshi are still anti Indian and will always remain anti Indian.
And they love their Pakistani brothers. Yes west Pakistani brothers know it I believe.but I could be wrong about some west Pakistanis anyway.