How did the Hindu rulers become so powerful in the 15th century in India?

[Velociraptor]

I am not using a logical argument. I'm asking for evidence of the existence of Santa claus, and also the evidence that all Pakistanis were converted by force.



Harry potter exists. What's your point? Santa claus doesn't exist. I used google maps but I couldn't find his house on the north pole.

Harry potter doesn't exist like God or allah or bhagwaan ! If yes, tell me their address.. !

 

[KingMamba]

If you believe the majority of Pakistanis were converted by force, then you must also believe in santa claus.

Akbar had a policy that anyone who was forcibly converted can go back to Hinduism. He ruled for 49 years, you would think those who wanted to go back would have. Yet Pakistanis are descended from force conversions somehow.

I use the same logic when Hindutvas say Iranis were force converted, the Mongols allowed Iranians to choose their state religion after years of Buddhism they chose Islam again. Must burn some folks.

 

[sovcomflot]

That explains why overseas Pakistanis are running to do some om shanti stuff in temples. Not

You guys will just have to accept that we love our Islam and move on with your lives.

Like I said laws of Apostasy.There are a lot of wahabbis in western countries also to implement it ,they have created sharia zones ,they can do a lot more. Most overseas pakistan who leave islam become atheists or agnostics.

 

[Pakistani E]

Your statement was an inference (if then) which was not based on logical reasoning.

In any case, evidence of all Pakistanis being converted is impossible to prove because -
i. Pakistan did not exist.
ii. Census of converted and non converted were not done in those days. The only records we have are the proud declarations of the court chronicles and some independent/otherwise observers.

Santa Claus is real. Believe him, else no cookies this Christmas. (j/k)

If something is impossible to prove, then it is best not to pass a sweeping remark about the existence of such things. That's what the poster I quoted did.

As for Santa Claus, I haven't been able to find any contact details, if you have a contact point, do let me know.

LOL Even if you knew the majority of Pakistanis were converted by force , you wouldn't accept it because of the humiliation and embarrassment associated with it

Its just like pakistanis getting their arse drilled in 1965 war but claim that they won it and celebrate fake victory day every year

You have no evidence to back up your claim. Show some evidence of this mass conversion.

As for 1965 war, that's off topic.

 

[KingMamba]

Like I said laws of Apostasy.There are a lot of wahabbis in western countries also to implement it ,they have created sharia zones ,they can do a lot more. Most overseas pakistan who leave islam become atheists or agnostics.

Lol now you are just getting desperate, no wahabbis with sharia zones running around here. Even in England they are a minority, a psycho minority but a minority none the less. Yes most people who leave Islam tend to become agnostic, why not Hindu instead? There are a few agnostic Pakistanis on this forum as well, I know for a fact they know about Hinduism but they rather be agnostic. Just accept that its not for everyone, it will save you heart burn.

Council of ex Muslims is strongest ironically in England itself.

 

[sovcomflot]

The two statements have no logical connection whatsoever.

you sir ,remember me???

 

[Pakistani E]

Harry potter doesn't exist like God or allah or bhagwaan ! If yes, tell me their address.. !

If you demote a supernatural entity to the imagination of the human mind, then you can only come up with such remarks about addresses.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Akbar had a policy that anyone who was forcibly converted can go back to Hinduism. He ruled for 49 years, you would think those who wanted to go back would have. Yet Pakistanis are descended from force conversions somehow.

I use the same logic when Hindutvas say Iranis were force converted, the Mongols allowed Iranians to choose their state religion after years of Buddhism they chose Islam again. Must burn some folks.

Millions did. Read Akbarnama (the translated one will do ).
Even then many did not, simply because staying Muslims allowed them a higher social standing and state patronage.

It was for benevolent rulers like him and violent and often successful insurgencies coupled with the remoteness of many areas that helped us retain our faith and culture to a large extent. The rest of your post betrays ignorance. You can't reject someone you don't know.

 

[KingMamba]

Your statement was an inference (if then) which was not based on logical reasoning.

In any case, evidence of all Pakistanis being converted is impossible to prove because -
i. Pakistan did not exist.
ii. Census of converted and non converted were not done in those days. The only records we have are the proud declarations of the court chronicles and some independent/otherwise observers.

Santa Claus is real. Believe him, else no cookies this Christmas. (j/k)

Most impartial scholars who have studied the history of Islamic expansion will say that forced conversions played the smallest role in spread of Islam. The only "scholars" who attribute conversions of South Asia to the sword is Hindutva scholars and since you are an admitted hindutva their works must appeal to you.

Despite the fact that South Asia has the most sufi saints in the history of Islam by a huge margin to tell you otherwise.

 

[Pakistani E]

Millions did. Read Akbarnama (the translated one will do ).
Even then many did not, simply because staying Muslims allowed them a higher social standing and state patronage.

It was for benevolent rulers like him and violent and often successful insurgencies coupled with the remoteness of many areas that helped us retain our faith and culture to a large extent. The rest of your post betrays ignorance. You can't reject someone you don't know.

I don't believe it statistically possible for the muslim invaders to forcefully convert the number that people claim they did. I don't deny that forced conversion didn't happen, I know for a fact that they did, and they are shameful. But I still cannot accept the fact all Pakistani ancestors were converted.

 

[KingMamba]

Millions did. Read Akbarnama (the translated one will do ).
Even then many did not, simply because staying Muslims allowed them a higher social standing and state patronage.

It was for benevolent rulers like him and violent and often successful insurgencies coupled with the remoteness of many areas that helped us retain our faith and culture to a large extent. The rest of your post betrays ignorance. You can't reject someone you don't know.

Umm that is my point, those who wanted to did so. So how can you then claim Pakistanis are still descended from forced converts, the evidence says the contrary. You wanna say Aurangzeb converted by force then understand most of his time was spent in the Deccan not in Pakistan and even then there is little evidence of him forcing conversions on a large scale, destroying temples yes tons.

As for the rest of my post, what are you talking about?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Most impartial scholars who have studied the history of Islamic expansion will say that forced conversions played the smallest role in spread of Islam. The only "scholars" who attribute conversions of South Asia to the sword is Hindutva scholars and since you are an admitted hindutva their works must appeal to you.

Despite the fact that South Asia has the most sufi saints in the history of Islam by a huge margin to tell you otherwise.

Regarding medieval history I value the same scholars that you do. More than less. If you go ahead and read the court chronicles and the equivalents of after action reports of those days, the picture will be clear. They converted and were proud of it. I don't blame them much - it was their way and we were weak. There are practically no Hindutva scholar I can think of corresponding to that timeline. If you know about some, please let me know - will give them a try.

It is typical that you have a skewed understanding of Hindutva in the first place, but I am gonna let that go.

 

[Velociraptor]

If you demote a supernatural entity to the imagination of the human mind, then you can only come up with such remarks about addresses.

define supernatural !

 

[KingMamba]

I don't believe it statistically possible for the muslim invaders to forcefully convert the number that people claim they did. I don't deny that forced conversion didn't happen, I know for a fact that they did, and they are shameful. But I still cannot accept the fact all Pakistani ancestors were converted.

Most of the rulers who did forced conversion came before the Mughals, history says the Mughals allowed anyone to leave their faith if they so chose starting from Akbar and ending around Shah Jahan. That is a good 70 years of freedom for those who want to go back to do so.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I don't believe it statistically possible for the muslim invaders to forcefully convert the number that people claim they did. I don't deny that forced conversion didn't happen, I know for a fact that they did, and they are shameful. But I still cannot accept the fact all Pakistani ancestors were converted.

Come on yaar, you know as well as I do that 'all' can never be possibly converted. It is statistically impossible. The initiation was forceful, usually happening in stages. Anybody saying all were converted as if by a switch is...trolling.