How could India / Pak / B'Desh manufacturing labour compete with China's?

[jetti]

ok your country the is the greatest one. they have everything and is a land of soya milk and honey.

 

[xizhimen]

India should get rid of this national shame first

Indian child labor

india child labor - Google Search

 

[below_freezing]

Tell you the truth,
the Chinese industry manufatory plants, especially the heavy industry, most are even much more better than the plants in Canada,

do you guys know that?

If you don't know the truth, how could you catch up. Wake up my indian friends.

what i find funny is: Foxconn is criticized for putting workers in bad conditions, and Indians laughing about it, yet they live just the same as Indian workers in their top domestic manufacturing companies. These are just high school graduates too.

I wonder what they would say if they saw how the workers at Sinopec, Huawei, ZTE, Shanghai Electric, ICBC, or Wuhan Shipbuilding worked?

 

[Shinigami]

Tell you the truth by an engineer work in industry field,
the Chinese industry manufactory plants, especially the heavy industry, most are even much more better than the plants in Canada on both equipments and working condition.

do you guys know that?

If you don't know the truth, how could you catch up. Wake up my indian friends.

everyone knows that China is a manufacturing hub. this thread was meant to show the forced labour part of it

These pictures are not very relavent since they cannot scale. My hometown is called China's detroit and those car assembly lines and working condition are comparable to developed countries, and I can post better pictures. That's not the point. As I mentioned in another thread, a developing country is called 3rd world not because it doesn't have shinning model factories, but because there are too many poor people that cannot work under these shinning conditions. The intention of this thread is to find the best way of making everyone rich, not only workers from Tata or Infosys. And with the currently situation, there's no way everyone can be like a Tata worker in either India, or China/Pakistand/BD.

How developed a country is can be measured by how much of the population is employed and the 'quality' of the labour

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------

what i find funny is: Foxconn is criticized for putting workers in bad conditions, and Indians laughing about it, yet they live just the same as Indian workers in their top domestic manufacturing companies. These are just high school graduates too.

I wonder what they would say if they saw how the workers at Sinopec, Huawei, ZTE, Shanghai Electric, ICBC, or Wuhan Shipbuilding worked?

first ask your countryman davidson to stop posting so many anti india threads. things may calm down after that

 

[SinoChallenger]

Minimum Wages in Kerala Kerala Minimum wage
List of minimum wages in People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia China minimum wage

Taking a 200 rs daily pay for simple calculation, turns out to be about 770 RMB per month in Kerala

List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of GDP PPP
List of countries by GDP (nominal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia List of GDP Nominal

Things are about (1 and a half times) as costly in China compared to India

GDP $5.4 trillion nominal -> GDP $10.1 trillion PPP (China)
GDP $1.6 trillion nominal -> GDP $4.0 trillion PPP (India)

So looking at the facts, an Indian agricultural worker is on par with his/her Chinese counterpart if not better in terms of pay .
Also, the working conditions over in India are much better than in China.

LOL the average india does not get paid 200 rupee / day (6000 rupees / month = RMB 760 / month). That is only a relatively comfortably government job.

Unskilled laborers in india earn ~130 rupees / day (3900 rupees / month = RMB 500 / month). In China, unskilled labor in a factory gets you RMB 3000+ month with room and board. That is 6x more in nominal terms!

Even if our cost of living is 50% more, our unskilled laborers are still earning 4x more than in india.

 

[fly2012]

Anyway I think this is a very serious question worth discussing and let's don't turn it into peeping contest. Comparing one's model factories against other's sweat shop doesn't prove anything. So back to the question, for a poor populous rural developing country that doesn't have oil to sell (China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonisia, Phillipines), what's the best way to turn it around? Please present your argument.

 

[jetti]

wow, your parents have taught yo well to boast how much money you make to poorer people. very bad.

 

[xizhimen]

Do you know where your manholes came from?
Submitted by LaurenMitchell on Mon, 2007-12-03 09:30

Adam Huggins, a free-lance photograph for the New York Times recently made a visual argument that caused a lot of people to pay attention to manholes.

Foundry Workers wearing only cloth wraps carrying molten metal to the manhole molds

Huggins went to the foundry in India where all manholes used on New York City streets are made and photographed the working conditions there, finding men with little clothing and no shoes handling molten metal of 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. The slideshow Huggins produced convinced Con Edison, another buyer of the manholes, to rewrite its international contracts to include safely requirements. The attention disturbed the American buyers of the manholes, and worried the Indian factory owners, who were concerned about lost contracts and jobs. Apparently, in addition to worrying about where, and under what conditions our fake Louis Vuitton bags and new Nike’s are made, we need to worry about the manholes. Huggins work is another illustration of how images make a powerful argument.

Foundry worker washing himself from makeshift spigot, standing on a manhole

Do you know where your manholes came from? | viz.

 

[fly2012]

How developed a country is can be measured by how much of the population is employed and the 'quality' of the labour

Again that's not the point. Everyone knows how to live with a million $ income, the thing we are discussing here is how to turn a poor country into developed one first.

 

[xizhimen]

how do u know that were u their slave master?

Indian Private sector jobs, they get paid better than most chinese

really,your private sector jobs..?

 

[below_freezing]

everyone knows that China is a manufacturing hub. this thread was meant to show the forced labour part of it



How developed a country is can be measured by how much of the population is employed and the 'quality' of the labour

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------



first ask your countryman davidson to stop posting so many anti india threads. things may calm down after that

How is it forced labor when 5% of the workers QUIT every month?

The whole company quits once per 2 years!

 

[xizhimen]

US uses cheap laborers all around the world to make cheap things for them and then they laugh at them,they are themselves are the roots of this evil,instead of regulating themselves they jeer at those who work for them,but sadly instead of accusing US. India,as the worst victim of this practice ,laughs at others with their US masters.

 

[Shinigami]

Do you know where your manholes came from?
Submitted by LaurenMitchell on Mon, 2007-12-03 09:30

really,your private sector jobs..?

WOW! Ok get ready for this one

Slave labour in China

The furor in China surrounding the discovery that children and the mentally handicapped had been kidnapped and sold into slavery is showing no sign of abating. It seems increasingly likely that the controversy will mark a significant milestone in the evolution of the country's civil society. Police said they had rescued more than 500 people from forced labor in brick kilns, where they were worked 18 hours a day and beaten if they tried to escape. Some 30 arrests have been made and more are expected following a massive police rescue operation involving 35,000 officers checking 7,500 work places.
The crackdown began after some 400 parents of children who they suspected had been kidnapped published an anguished letter on the popular Internet forum Tianya Club on June 7. The letter said they had managed to rescue some 40 children before running into stiff resistance from the local authorities in the northeastern province of Shanxi, where most of the kilns were situated. The letter sparked a storm on the Internet, and by June 13 a member of the Standing Committee of the Politburo of the Chinese Communist Party expressed concern about the issue. The police action soon followed.
Populist criticism on the Internet has been at the forefront of the outrage — and may be a harbinger for how grassroots protests are heard by Chinese authorities in the future. As is often the case, coverage of the incident has been gently moved off the front pages of Chinese newspapers. Nevertheless, the subject is still a hot topic on Chinese websites, where much of criticism was directed at the authorities for failing to intervene to stop the human trafficking and enslavement of the brick kiln workers. Even in usually docile official publication like the English language China Daily, the sense of shock and outrage many Chinese felt on seeing footage and pictures of the dazed, sometimes bleeding workers being led out of the kilns was evident, even if relegated to op-ed pages.
"None of the synonyms for 'anger' is strong enough to express the public's fury," wrote columnist Liu Shinan. "I want to ask: What were local government officials doing when the children and other workers were tormented?" Liu also noted that "nobody would believe that such atrocities... are happening in today's China — 58 years after the Communist Party-led revolution put an end to the old society." Another columnist in the same paper praised the role of a provincial newspaper reporter in exposing the slave trade and argued that China needed more investigative journalism.
Such criticism of the authorities and calls for a greater watchdog role by the tightly controlled media reflects the extent of shock many Chinese feel at the gruesome revelations. But it also shows the way the party is being forced to offer some accountability to a citizenry that is increasingly affluent and unwilling to accept that they have no ability to counter the arbitrary power of the state. The party leadership recognizes that it must adapt to the changing attitudes or risk losing control. "There is room to maneuver and the party is willing to negotiate so long as there is no challenge to its authority," says Nicholas Bequelin, a China researcher for Human Rights Watch.
For both sides, figuring out the limits of the evolving relationship between China's rulers and its people is clearly a work in process. The slavery controversy culminates a month that has seen a string of incidents demonstrating the different ways the authorities choose to handle controversial issues. For several days in early June, for example, thousands of mostly middle-class protesters filled the center of the coastal city of Xiamen. They were calling for the government to cancel plans to build a chemical factory in a city suburb. Though the authorities didn't attempt to stop the highly unusual protests, they later called for participants to report to police stations and officers tracked down a number of demonstrators who had been photographed at the scene. Yet the government subsequently announced that it would suspend the project and the State Environmental Protection Administration in Beijing said the Xiamen government should reconsider.
The other incidents ranged from violent demonstrations against forced abortions and police brutality to an anti-pollution protest that took place entirely online. All were fueled because of the Internet, and in particular the country's 20 million-strong bloggers. Says Bequelin, of the possibility for change in China: "The role of the Internet is the one aspect of the kiln story that made me optimistic."

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Child Slave Labor in China


The International Labor Organization (ILO) has estimated that of the 250 million children between the ages of five and fourteen work in developing countries, 61 percent are in Asia. Although we live in an extremely modern age, there is, in fact, child slave labor present in China. Some of these children work in sweatshops. A sweatshop is a workplace where workers are subjected to extreme exploitation, including the lack of a living wages or benefits, poor and dangerous working conditions, and harsh and unnecessary discipline, such as verbal and physical abuse. Sweatshop workers are paid less than their daily expenses, thus they are never able to save any money to invest in their futures. They are trapped in a never-ending cycle (Embar, pars. 2-5).

The exact number of child labors working in China is still unknown. China's repressive political system does not allow this information acquired directly from China, there are no Chinese non-governmental organizations (NGOs) active in this area, and foreign NGOs do not have access. Therefore, it is impossible to judge how strictly the Chinese Government enforces child labor laws or to determine the efforts of non-governmental organizations to address child labor in China (China, par.1).

Most China-watchers conclude that child labor is increasing, particularly in areas around Hong Kong. This deduction is based on a high dropout rate from school and the hasty expansion of foreign investment in export-oriented enterprises. There is indeed increasing evidence that school children are part of the required workforce. Also, an official from the Chinese Ministry of Labor confessed that the employment of children was extremely serious in China. Although no specific Chinese industry is identifiable as a significant violator of child labor regulations, they involve a range of export industries including garments and textiles, fireworks, and toys (China, pars. 2-3).

The Chinese Ministry of Labor admitted that the child labor situation was very serious throughout the country. It stated that exploiting child laborers has become a common occurrence. In some coastal areas and particular economic zones, such as Fujian and Guangdong, as well as Zhejiang, Sichuan, and Hubei, there are reported to be approximately four to five million-child laborers under the age of 16. Child laborers under 12 years of age are also found in Whenzhou and in some areas of Guangdong and Hainan. The children usually work 10 to 14 hours a day with half the wages of an adult.

Much of the proof that child labor exists in China is taken from data from the large economic zone of Shenzhen. Children between the ages of 10 to 16 are working up to 14 hours a day in factories in Shenzhen. It was also recorded that girls work in awful conditions for 13 to 14 hours a day from 7 a.m.- 10 p.m. with two one-hour breaks. The China Youth News said that 44 of the 206 foreign-owned companies or joint ventures in Shenzhen employ children less than 16 years of age (China, pars. 4-5).

The United States imports of pyrotechnics and explosives from China is approaching $1 billion. Children are working in the fireworks industry. A recent report described an explosion at a fireworks factory in Hebei that killed one child and injured 34 schoolgirls ranging from 11 to 13 years of age. Investigators found that the school children had been forced by their teachers to work for slave wages making firecrackers. The children were promised 20 fen, 2 cents, for making one long braid of firecrackers, but in reality were paid three fen, 0.3 cents. In March 2001, 42 people, most of them third and fourth-graders, were killed in an explosion at a school. The school blow up because the Chinese use young students to make fireworks in order to keep the price lower than their competitors. The younger students are required to assemble at least 1,000 fireworks a day while the older children, fifth-graders, are required to make ten times that many (Farah).

Newspaper and journal reports indicate that children are also working in the garment and textile industries of China. Imports of apparel and textiles from China to the U.S. market are reaching beyond $4.5 billion each year. It was reported that China's number one textile firm at Qingpu employs children aged 12 to 15 years old that recruited were from the neighboring province of Anhui. In Chungsan City, a foreign textile enterprise employed about 160 child laborers and a 14 year old was killed after her hair became tangled in her machine. Journalists also found 12 year-old children sleeping two to three in a bed in dorms and working 15 hours a day for $10 per month (Lindsay).

The International Child Labor Study staff also received numerous claims of the use of child labor in toy, sporting equipment, and game factories. The United States imports approximately $4 billion worth of toys, games, and sporting goods from China every year. A Business Week article reported that, in order to meet the holiday demand for toys, girls at a plant were ordered to work one or two 24-hour shifts each month. The average North American toy maker earns $11 an hour. In China, toy workers earn an average of 30 cents an hour.

The enforcement of child labor laws is sometimes made difficult by counterfeit identification cards. Southeastern China workers reported the use of counterfeit IDs is fairly common. Some workers admitted that they were three or four years younger than the 16 years certified on their ID cards.

The International Labor Organization reports that compulsory education in China is required up to age 16, yet children are reported to be dropping out of school at increasing rates. According to the U.S. State Department, Chinese press reports indicate that dropout rates for lower secondary schools (ages 12 to 15) exceed nine percent in several southern provinces, whereas the national average is 2.2 percent. An increasing group of children leaving school below the legal work age suggests the possibility of a growing child labor problem (China, pars. 10-12).

Slave labor exists in our world today. It is not some far off problem that the people of America can do nothing about. Americans must education themselves on the issue and learn how to make a difference. These children are in need of help.

 

[xizhimen]

that's a whole bunch of Indian shame which i can post here,you choose some.


Indian child labor

india child labor - Google Search

 

[Rig Vedic]

Let us not feel good at other people's misery.

In all developing countries there are problems of poverty, exploitation of workers, crony-capitalism etc.