How can Pakistan Navy defend itself from Brahmos cruse missile ?

[SecularNationalist]

PN what is that...half rusted ships and a few decent subs .
You guys should just scrap the PN and just have a coast guard..for all the good the PN is going to do you in a conflict. At least you would save a few dollars to plough back into your moribund economy.

For being an indian patriot dear you don,t have to lower down your IQ and ignore the facts

 

[Gessler]

PN surface ships cannot defend against BrahMos. The targeted ships will sink. Plain and simple.

They do have some defences, but not anything geared to take on BrahMos/Yakhont/YJ-12 types. Maybe they
can get lucky and bring some down...we fire 10, they shoot down 1 or 2. But that's not an adequate defence.

But PN isn't really structured to take blows and give them back...their entire hope rests on their submarine
fleet. Surface capacities are a one-throw-of-the-die force. It doesn't really matter if they can defend against
BrahMos or not because they don't except the surface ships to really accomplish anything significant enough
to spend millions to defend each of them.

But to plainly answer the question : NO, Pak navy cannot defend against BrahMos. They can yammer on
for whatever they like but that's the hard fact.

--

The US Navy can indeed defend against BrahMos using present technologies, and that's about it. The lasers
& DEWs which would be the mainstay of the future don't even come into the picture because the BrahMos
we see today would be more than 40 years old by then - there will be Mach 7-8 missiles like BrahMos-II
that can cover the horizon in single-digit seconds. Weapons geared to deal with those threats would emerge
only by late 2030s or so. Which means in it's day, the BrahMos-II would be a far more relevant weapon
than what BrahMos-I is today.

It's because BrahMos is just a pepping-up of a 1980's Soviet missile technology. It does offer many new
capabilities that were never implemented before like supersonic steep-dive, but most of these are
relevant for ground-attack rather than anti-shipping roles.

 

[aazar]

I wonder if Pakistan feels any kind of threat from Russian missile which India claims to be home made. Pakistan has RAAD missile too which is also cruise missile. It is enough to destroy already sinking Indian naval fleet.

 

[alimobin memon]

Question

PN surface ships cannot defend against BrahMos. The targeted ships will sink. Plain and simple.

They do have some defences, but not anything geared to take on BrahMos/Yakhont/YJ-12 types. Maybe they
can get lucky and bring some down...we fire 10, they shoot down 1 or 2. But that's not an adequate defence.

But PN isn't really structured to take blows and give them back...their entire hope rests on their submarine
fleet. Surface capacities are a one-throw-of-the-die force. It doesn't really matter if they can defend against
BrahMos or not because they don't except the surface ships to really accomplish anything significant enough
to spend millions to defend each of them.

But to plainly answer the question : NO, Pak navy cannot defend against BrahMos. They can yammer on
for whatever they like but that's the hard fact.

--

The US Navy can indeed defend against BrahMos using present technologies, and that's about it. The lasers
& DEWs which would be the mainstay of the future don't even come into the picture because the BrahMos
we see today would be more than 40 years old by then - there will be Mach 7-8 missiles like BrahMos-II
that can cover the horizon in single-digit seconds. Weapons geared to deal with those threats would emerge
only by late 2030s or so. Which means in it's day, the BrahMos-II would be a far more relevant weapon
than what BrahMos-I is today.

It's because BrahMos is just a pepping-up of a 1980's Soviet missile technology. It does offer many new
capabilities that were never implemented before like supersonic steep-dive, but most of these are
relevant for ground-attack rather than anti-shipping roles.

Brahmos is not almighty it can be destroyed if not easily than at least their is probability above average. our ships have one of the best point defense CIWS Type 730B which are tested u can see them on live leak videos. Point defense is extremely underrated defense system which IMHO actually should be considered most reliable defense system for any ship.
OK don't get me completely Anti brahmos. Brahmos will give Pakistan Navy very less chance IMHO max 10 seconds after it reaches the final stage which is after terminal stage. But for CIWS 10 seconds is a good time to reactive with at least 5-6 times burst shot. and these High RPM that is around 5000 R/MIN they can be devastating for any missile.

For a walk through lets design a scenario.
single F22p with 2 CIWS TYPE 730B ready for any attack. A Brahmos coming at it at the speed for lets say max 3 mach. Even if Type 730B has chance two fire 2 separate burst shots for 0.2 seconds. A single burst shots fire exactly 15+ rounds each of bore 30mm with kinectic energy at ~1100m/s the probablity of even a single 30 mm round hit could be greater than 70%. Now if 2 burst shots means 30 rounds. My point is the brahmos has one advantage that is enemy has less reaction time while Point defense has to act fastly. with todays Computing system it can be achieved by Ciws.

Further Brahmos uses sea skimming I am pretty sure with the weather and tides in sea the sea skimming altitude of 5m max could be less favorable in real time test so the missile will have to re adjust its momentum every second to prevent surface hit in sea. that will hamper its radar avoiding technique for repeatation.
I am no scientist but My view to brahmos is that a cruise missile which has advantage one and only prospect that is given enemy less reaction time.

PN has a better advantage too that is its CM 400 AKG for which currently there is no Defense system for INDIAN navy. Point defense can have but very very less reaction time than in scenario of Brahmos and pn ship point defense.

 

[Indian Patriot]

For being an indian patriot dear you don,t have to lower down your IQ and ignore the facts

Which one are you referring to? There is me and there is an imposter of me posting with my copied name.

 

[rockstar08]

yes we can not defend our Ships against Barhamos , no one can stand again Mighty IN ... even USN will loose ...
we should request mods to open a separate section for Mentality retarded members here on PDF ... our Indian Guests need to be there , to inhale their own brain fart ...

 

[Rana Thakur]

Short range-defense works - like Goalkeeper, so too do medium-range defenses like ESSM, the best are still long-ranged defenses like SM-6. Close-in Weapon Systems were designed to react fast to fast moving, maneuverable targets and have been proven able to down supersonic missiles.

We (the US) are transitioning to laser CIWS:


As for Pakistan, peace is still the best defense, but if that's not an option... well, they have options too.

Oh nice analysis. Except that you explained about other defense systems (which i didn't even mention) than short range. Hilarious.

yes we can not defend our Ships against Barhamos , no one can stand again Mighty IN ... even USN will loose ...
we should request mods to open a separate section for Mentality retarded members here on PDF ... our Indian Guests need to be there , to inhale their own brain fart ...

This ain't fair. Vomiting $h!t after getting bTThurt is just not fair, although it's funny.

 

[Agent_47]

First PN have to get a credible ship based SAM against missiles like Club/harpoon/exocet.
Then we can talk about brahmos.

 

[Basel]

Why, what will stop them from coming close enough?

In last naval war between India and Pakistan, Indian navy was was even able to sink, Pakistani Navy ships sitting in their harbors from a distance of 30 Kms..with their Styx missiles..and neither PAF or PN were able to even scratch these attacking ships.

This is but a 300 Km missile.

In last war PN didn't had AShM, don't compare current PN with old one as now they only lack area air defense other than that they have all required systems to defend.

PN should ask China if they can export and install the FL-3000N on their frigates and such. 11 missiles per launcher with which they can counter subsonic and supersonic maneuvering ASCMs. The American version is designated RIM-116 RAM and has been highly successful in testing since its induction in the early 90s.

Chinese Version
View attachment 197845
View attachment 197846

US Version
View attachment 197847
View attachment 197848

PN rejected it in favor of HHQ-7.

now replace zdk with phalcon and nirbhay with babur..........that way we going counter the way you going counter


yes it can target moving one

Phalcon will not come to help IN in deep waters near gulf of Aden or Somalia n PN can take out CMs as they have all required systems installed n integrated in NCW environment.

 

[ares]

In last war PN didn't had AShM, don't compare current PN with old one as now they only lack area air defense other than that they have all required systems to defend.

Technology difference will always be there, between IN and PN.
Afterall IN is a much larger and much better equipped force.

In last war you did not have Ashm, we did not have submarines..and now, Pakistan Navy is not likely to have Supersonic Ashms, Nuclear subs, ship launched and sub launched ballistic missiles, aircraft carriers.

And looking at force and asset disparity between the two forces, this war one will most likely turn like the last one..or even worse for PN.

PN rejected it in favor of HHQ-7.



Phalcon will not come to help IN in deep waters near gulf of Aden or Somalia n PN can take out CMs as they have all required systems installed n integrated in NCW environment.

And What will PN or IN be doing across Babel Mandeb, besides PN has never demonstrated any ability to take out even a aircraft much less a supersonic cruise missile.

Even PN's air defence is very limited, it has only very short range SAMs and no fighters.

 

[farhan_9909]

Indian members were giving lectures to everyone of kinetic energy when the brahmos was revealed/tested initially

 

[Basel]

Technology difference will always be there, between IN and PN.
Afterall IN is a much larger and much better equipped force.

In last war you did not have Ashm, we did not have submarines..and now, Pakistan Navy is not likely to have Supersonic Ashms, Nuclear subs, ship launched and sub launched ballistic missiles, aircraft carriers.

And looking at force and asset disparity between the two forces, this war one will most likely turn like the last one..or even worse for PN.



And What will PN or IN be doing across Babel Mandeb, besides PN has never demonstrated any ability to take out even a aircraft much less a supersonic cruise missile.

Even PN's air defence is very limited, it has only very short range SAMs and no fighters.

PN & PAF now share their assets in coastal areas due to step by step integration of NCW capability and PAF will deploy LY-80-E & SPADA MR-SAMs to protect Karachi.

PN & PAF have trained with USN on how to strike ACC protected by heavy / dense air defense.

 

[Mitro]

First the short range makes it harder for brahmos when future war will be fought with awacs so it will be not easy to come closer to PN Frigate .
To come closer to PN frigate indian navy has to pass their first line of defence i.e Subs .
The range is 290 km so the indian navy is not going to fired the missile from maximum distance so they have to come closer around 250 or may be 200 km range in this range PN frigate can also target indian navy vessel.
Brahmos is very easily detectable because of big IR signature
1) Fn90 can easily destroy brahmos with detection range of 25km and homing range of 20 km with 2.3 mach speed.
2)Type 730 CIWs detection range 20km and operating range 3km
3)electronic jammer and flares

 

[Basel]

First the short range makes it harder for brahmos when future war will be fought with awacs so it will be not easy to come closer to PN Frigate .
To come closer to PN frigate indian navy has to pass their first line of defence i.e Subs .
The range is 290 km so the indian navy is not going to fired the missile from maximum distance so they have to come closer around 250 or may be 200 km range in this range PN frigate can also target indian navy vessel.
Brahmos is very easily detectable because of big IR signature
1) Fn90 can easily destroy brahmos with detection range of 25km and homing range of 20 km with 2.3 mach speed.
2)Type 730 CIWs detection range 20km and operating range 3km
3)electronic jammer and flares

Are you really an Indian??

The points you posted are nearly the same what PN guys told me on F-22P, when I visited it last year.

 

[ni8mare]

Phalcon will not come to help IN in deep waters near gulf of Aden or Somalia n PN can take out CMs as they have all required systems installed n integrated in NCW environment.

but IN don't have NCW..............and therefore it cannot take out pakistani missile ............great logic

may be pakistans NCW capability is more than IN NCW capability

PN & PAF now share their assets in coastal areas due to step by step integration of NCW capability and PAF will deploy LY-80-E & SPADA MR-SAMs to protect Karachi.

PN & PAF have trained with USN on how to strike ACC protected by heavy / dense air defense.

yeap pakistan can take out indian missile ..............but india missile cannot put a dent to all mighty pn i agree