How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?

[Kompromat]

And here are those silly Americans still messing about with their star wars things

Especially when they don't even have an indigenous surface to air missile system,except a Russian rip off, which has failed miserably. Indian ABM capability is highly doubtful, though they do make tall claims as they have been making about other white elephants they have created in past 30 years.

A newswire indeed is a credible evidence.

FYI, Even the US doesn't have a missile shield yet, THAAD and other patriot based interceptors are still under development. Stop making tall claims before you actually deliver.

 

[muse]

I hope Indian friends can help out the US:

US missile defense test fails: Pentagon
July 06, 2013 - Updated 647 PKT

WASHINGTON: America's missile defense system failed on Friday in a test over the Pacific, with an interceptor failing to hit an incoming ballistic missile, the Pentagon said.

The miss represented yet another setback for the costly ground-based interceptors, which have not had a successful test result since 2008.

The test's objective was to have an interceptor, launched from Vandenberg air base in California, knock out a long-range ballistic missile fired from a US military test site at Kwajalein atoll in the Marshall Islands.

But "an intercept was not achieved," US Missile Defense Agency spokesman Richard Lehner said in a brief statement.

"Program officials will conduct an extensive review to determine the cause or causes of any anomalies which may have prevented a successful intercept," it said.

The anti-missile weapon has run into repeated technical problems, with tests delayed after two failures in 2010.
The United States has 30 of the ground-based interceptors in Alaska and California, at a cost of about $34 billion.

They are supposed to counter the potential threat posed by North Korea, which has tried to develop long-range ballistic missiles.
The Pentagon wants to deploy an additional 14 ground-based interceptors to bases in Alaska, at a cost of about $1 billion, also in response to what Washington deems a growing threat from North Korea.

Some lawmakers also are pushing to open a new missile defense site on the country's East Coast, in case Iran or other adversaries obtain long-range missiles.

Critics of the missile defense program are sure to seize on the test result as further proof that the system faces insurmountable technical hurdles.

 

[gslv mk3]

Especially when they don't even have an indigenous surface to air missile system,except a Russian rip off, which has failed miserably. Indian ABM capability is highly doubtful, though they do make tall claims as they have been making about other white elephants they have created in past 30 years.

even the mods are trolling...

How is Akash a Russian Ripoff..how??Next year we are going to test even a 1000km range ramjet supersonic cruise missile and Scramjet engine is also tested on ground,and you think India doesnt have capability to build one for Akash
Indian BMD is Highly doubtful..Why..Coz it was built by India?
white elephants we have created in past 30 years?
Which one ?Agni V,Shaurya QBM,K 15 SLBM,Brahmos,Arihant,Sy sats or SLVs(I guess you know what they are)?

I hope Indian friends can help out the US:.

We have our own R & D departments..unlike Pakistan who have to Run to China,even to launch a small satellite

 

[Oldman1]

Especially when they don't even have an indigenous surface to air missile system,except a Russian rip off, which has failed miserably. Indian ABM capability is highly doubtful, though they do make tall claims as they have been making about other white elephants they have created in past 30 years.



A newswire indeed is a credible evidence.

FYI, Even the US doesn't have a missile shield yet, THAAD and other patriot based interceptors are still under development. Stop making tall claims before you actually deliver.

We already have some limited capability of a missile shield. They even deployed one nearby when North Korea was threatening the U.S.

I hope Indian friends can help out the US:

US missile defense test fails: Pentagon
July 06, 2013 - Updated 647 PKT

WASHINGTON: America's missile defense system failed on Friday in a test over the Pacific, with an interceptor failing to hit an incoming ballistic missile, the Pentagon said.

The miss represented yet another setback for the costly ground-based interceptors, which have not had a successful test result since 2008.

The test's objective was to have an interceptor, launched from Vandenberg air base in California, knock out a long-range ballistic missile fired from a US military test site at Kwajalein atoll in the Marshall Islands.

But "an intercept was not achieved," US Missile Defense Agency spokesman Richard Lehner said in a brief statement.

"Program officials will conduct an extensive review to determine the cause or causes of any anomalies which may have prevented a successful intercept," it said.

The anti-missile weapon has run into repeated technical problems, with tests delayed after two failures in 2010.
The United States has 30 of the ground-based interceptors in Alaska and California, at a cost of about $34 billion.

They are supposed to counter the potential threat posed by North Korea, which has tried to develop long-range ballistic missiles.
The Pentagon wants to deploy an additional 14 ground-based interceptors to bases in Alaska, at a cost of about $1 billion, also in response to what Washington deems a growing threat from North Korea.

Some lawmakers also are pushing to open a new missile defense site on the country's East Coast, in case Iran or other adversaries obtain long-range missiles.

Critics of the missile defense program are sure to seize on the test result as further proof that the system faces insurmountable technical hurdles.

You never know.

New Missile Interceptor Test Successful - February 12, 2013 - YouTube

Japan Tests SM-3 Ballistic Missile Interceptor - YouTube

 

[INDIC]

A newswire indeed is a credible evidence.

FYI, Even the US doesn't have a missile shield yet, THAAD and other patriot based interceptors are still under development. Stop making tall claims before you actually deliver.

THAAD is already deployed in Guam and Hawaii, missile defence are not always 100% effective.

Missile defence systems deployed to counter North Korea threats: interactive | World news | guardian.co.uk

In response to the increasingly bellicose rhetoric emanating from Pyongyang, three missile defence systems - Aegis, Patriot and Thaad - are being rushed into place to protect the region against any possible North Korean missile launches

 

[Kompromat]

even the mods are trolling...

How is Akash a Russian Ripoff..how??
Indian BMD is Highly doubtful?
white elephants we have created in past 30 years?
Which one ?Agni V,Shaurya QBM,K 15 SLBM,Brahmos,Arihant,Sy sats or SLVs(I guess you know what they are)?



We have our own R & D departments..unlike Pakistan who have to Run to China,even to launch a small satellite

Truth is hurtful. Yes Akash = SA-6 Ripp off.

You don't even have a SAM developed out of your local R&D, claiming to have an ABM which established states like the US,Germany,Russia,Israel,China are still struggling to build, is a ludicrous tall claim, come back when you have concrete evidence instead of stupid tabloid TV reports and jingoistic articles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/us/missile-defense-interceptor-misses-target-in-test.html

 

[Kompromat]

THAAD is already deployed in Guam and Hawaii, missile defence are not always 100% effective.

Missile defence systems deployed to counter North Korea threats: interactive | World news | guardian.co.uk

If you decide to use your brain, you'll understand that THAAD is useless if its not part of the overall defense shield,its hardly anything more than a Kinetic energy surface to air missile without full ABM shield integration. If your theory is to be applied than why not just build a few hundred batteries of PAC-III and leave them in the desert along with THAAD to intercept missiles. If it was as simple as this, the US would already have it deployed.

There is NO country out there that has a completely deployed, and operational ABM shield.

 

[INDIC]

Especially when they don't even have an indigenous surface to air missile system,except a Russian rip off, which has failed miserably. Indian ABM capability is highly doubtful, though they do make tall claims as they have been making about other white elephants they have created in past 30 years.
.

If you remember one was the recent failure of Hatf-5 after the numbers of successful tests who's heavy pieces fell over Daddu village in your Sindh province. Your Hatf series are still not reliable.

?Mysterious metal objects? in Dadu fell from Hatf V missile: ISPR - DAWN.COM

If you decide to use your brain, you'll understand that THAAD is useless if its not part of the overall defense shield,its hardly anything more than a Kinetic energy surface to air missile without full ABM shield integration. If your theory is to be applied than why not just build a few hundred batteries of PAC-III and leave them in the desert along with THAAD to intercept missiles. If it was as simple as this, the US would already have it deployed.

There is NO country out there that has a completely deployed, and operational ABM shield.

I never claimed missile defence system are 100% effective, it will need years to be a near 100% effective missile defence system.

 

[Kompromat]

@Oldman1 I was talking about India not the US.

The US ABM defense system is not fully operational yet, the US forces rely on Patriots,THAAD and Ageis destroyer. I believe it will happen in, time. For India, a country that still imports assault rifles and pistols, that doesn't have a domestic R&D SAM not even an indigenous MANPAD, claiming to already have a two stage ABM is just ludicrous. Most of their newswire is meant for propaganda and public consumption. The fact is that we have no concrete evidence of India's proven ability to intercept fighter jets by its own technology using SAMs, let along Ballistic missiles.

If you remember one was the recent failure of Hatf-5 after the numbers of successful tests who's heavy pieces fell over Daddu village in your Sindh province. Your Hatf series are still not reliable.

?Mysterious metal objects? in Dadu fell from Hatf V missile: ISPR - DAWN.COM

Yea, that makes you feel good doesn't it...one of a kind failed test of old liquid fuel ghauri. That still doesn't explain any of my points.

I never claimed missile defence system are 100% effective, it will need years to be an near 100% effective missile defence system.

Who is talking about "effectiveness", i am talking about "availability".

 

[gslv mk3]

Truth is hurtful. Yes Akash = SA-6 Ripp off.

You don't even have a SAM developed out of your local R&D, claiming to have an ABM which established states like the US,Germany,Russia,Israel,China are still struggling to build, is a ludicrous tall claim, come back when you have concrete evidence instead of stupid tabloid TV reports and jingoistic articles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/us/missile-defense-interceptor-misses-target-in-test.html

Yes the truth really hurts,especially when India is ahead in every field related to Missile technology-from egines to the electronics and Pakistani members usually love to claim that ''they are far ahead of India in missile technology''

So they usually come and critisize Indian missiles like Agni V,K15,shaurya and the BMD system while they cannot even build anything close

Now,You are claiming that we cannot build a SAM?Heck We can even put a probe on the surface of the moon and Develop an ICBM

As for the BMD system-We have already developed the interceptors,And the past tests were successful-and you claim that we cannot even build a SAM

For SA 6 and Akash

RADAR

Akash SAM

a Battery Level Radar - the Rajendra, and a Command post (Battery Control Centre). Two batteries are deployed as a Squadron (Air Force), while up to four form an Akash Group (Army configuration). In both configurations, an extra Group Control Centre (GCC) is added, which acts as the Command and Control HQ of the Squadron or Group. Based on a single mobile platform, GCC establishes links with Battery Control Centres and conducts air defense operations in coordination with air defense set up in a zone of operations. For early warning, the GCC relies on the Central Acquisition Radar. However, individual batteries can also be deployed with the cheaper, 2-D BSR (Battery Surveillance Radar) with a range of over 100 km.

SA6 Gainful

SURN 1S91 vehicle included two radar station - a target acquisition and distribution radar 1S11 and a continuous wave illuminator 1S31, in addition to an IFF interrogator and an optical channel. The acquisition range of the radar was reported as 50 km (31 mi) for the Phantom II type target.

Engagement

AKASH SAM
Each Akash battery can engage up to four targets simultaneously. Each battery has four launchers with three missiles each, with each Rajendra able to guide eight missiles in total, with a maximum of two missiles per target. Up to a maximum of four targets can be engaged simultaneously by a typical battery with a single Rajendra if one (or two) missile is allotted per target. A single Akash missile has an 88% Probability of kill. Two missiles can be fired, five seconds apart, to raise the Probability of Kill to 98.5%

SA6- Gainful
It can only guide one or two missiles to a single target at any time. The missile is initially command guided with terminal semi active radar homing (SARH), with target illumination provided by the "Straight Flush" radar. Detonation is via either the impact or proximity fuze

Configuration:

Akash SAM:
An Akash battery comprises four 3D phased array radars and four launchers with three missiles each, all of which are interlinked. Each radar is able to track 16 targets simultaneously and control a launcher with 3 missiles. Hence it is reported to be able to detect 100 and track 64 targets and simultaneously attack any 8 of those targets at one time. The Akash system is comparable to the Patriot system, but unlike the Patriot, Akash is fully mobile and capable of protecting a moving convoy of vehicles

SA6-Gainful:
Each 2K12 battery consists of a number of similar tracked vehicles, one of which carries the 1S91 (SURN vehicle, NATO designation "Straight Flush") 25 kW G/H band radar (range 75 km/47 miles) equipped with a continuous wave illuminator, in addition to an optical sight. The battery usually also includes four triple-missile transporter erector launchers (TELs) and four trucks each carrying three spare missiles and a crane

MISSILE:

Akash SAM:
Akash is a surface-to-air missile with an intercept range of 30 km.[2] It has a launch weight of 720 kg, a diameter of 35 cm and a length of 5.78 metres. Akash flies at supersonic speed, reaching around Mach 2.5. It can reach an altitude of 18 km and can be fired from both tracked and wheeled platforms.[2] An on-board guidance system coupled with an actuator system makes the missile maneuverable up to 15g loads and a tail chase capability for end game engagemen

SA6-Gainful:
The fairly large missiles have an effective range of 4–24 km (2.5–15 miles) and an effective altitude of 50–14000 m (164–45,931 ft). The missile weighs 599 kg (1321 lb) and the warhead weighs 56 kg (123 lb). Top missile speed is approx. Mach 2.8. The combined propulsion system 9D16K included solid fuel rocket motor which, when burned out, forms the combustion chamber for a ramjet


thanks to @sandy_3126

Now you might think India is backward in Ramjet Propulsion..Check this out

testing in 2014

Now Scramjets

engine undergoing testing

Both DRDO and ISRO are going to test their Scramjets in 2014...

Yes we did reverse engineered a SAM,that was back in 1980s,we reverse engineered SA 2 and That was called Project Devil......Even back then we had the capability to make SLVs...

 

[Kompromat]

^That is why i said "supposedly under development", as we haven't seen anything concrete yet,except CGI's and tall claims.

 

[gslv mk3]

[MENTION=39728]
The US ABM defense system is not fully operational yet, the US forces rely on Patriots,THAAD and Ageis destroyer. I believe it will happen in, time. For India, a country that still imports assault rifles and pistols, that doesn't have a domestic R&D SAM not even an indigenous MANPAD, claiming to already have a two stage ABM is just ludicrous. The fact is that we have no concrete evidence of India's proven ability to intercept fighter jets by its own technology using SAMs, let along Ballistic missiles.

About assualt rifles,pistols-http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/172935-made-india-military-weapons-support-systems.html

Now for SAMs-http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/38312-indian-army-considering-several-akash-missile-squadrons.html

Seriously?A country that can make these???

Now lets talk about a country,that doesnt even have an Indigenous car manufacturing firm,an indigenous trainer aircraft,cannot build and launch a proper satellite,A country that didnt have a A supercomputer till 2012,a cyclotron...Now..Lets checkout its claims of having advanced Missile technology as compared to India...

 

[Kompromat]

^

* India still IMPORTS small arms. Most of what you have shown is Russian clones, not Indian R&D and they are so cheap that Indian army won't have them.

* Even N.Korea can launch long range missiles, Iran can launch space rockets...that is no big deal.

* We are talking about "missile interceptors" not "ballistic missiles."...which you don't have.

Stick to the topic and stop bringing Pakistan in, no one is discussing Pakistan.

 

[gslv mk3]

^That is why i said "supposedly under development", as we haven't seen anything concrete yet,except CGI's and tall claims.

again,seriously??

The PADE (Prithvi Air Defence Exercise) was conducted on November 2006 in which a PAD missile successfully intercepted a modified Prithvi-II Missile

On 6 December 2007, AAD successfully intercepted a modified Prithvi-II missile

On March 6, 2009 DRDO carried out a second successful test of the PAD interceptor missile.

On 15 March 2010, AAD interceptor missile test from the Orissa coast on Monday was aborted, as the target missile deviated from its path and plunged into the sea.

On 26 July 2010, AAD was successfully test-fired from the Integrated Test Range (ITR)

On March 6, 2011 DRDO successfully test-fired interceptor missile from Advanced Air Defence(AAD) which destroyed a 'hostile' target ballistic missile,

On 10 February 2012, AAD was again successfully test-fired from Wheeler Island off the state coast

On 23 November 2012, India again successfully testfired its home-made supersonic Advanced Air Defense (AAD) interceptor missile

About Long Range Supersonic Cruise missile,We have already tested the Scramjet on ground,so dont worry about Ramjet powered cruise missile

 

[gslv mk3]

* India still IMPORTS small arms. Most of what you have shown is Russian clones, not Indian R&D and they are so cheap that Indian army won't have them.

How many of them?What about INSAS,Trichy and the like?

* Even N.Korea can launch long range missiles, Iran can launch space rockets...that is no big deal.

I usually clutch my belly and laugh my head off,when Pakistani Members try to belittle India's achievement in space by stating ''Even Iran can Launch a satellite''

Yeah Iran can launch a 50 kg satellite to LEO,Indias capability is going to be 10 tonne to LEO by 2014..Also We send moon and mars missions,build and Launch satellites for european customers,Have Asias largest solid Rocket booster,one of largest Liquid fuel engines,And is developing an engine as powerful as Space shuttle main engine..We also have one of worlds largest constellations of Remote sensing satellites.

If India wanted to build an 'Jugaad' ICBM like North Korea,we could have done that back in the 80s

These are proofs of India's advancement in propulsion,electronics etc..Now in what field does India lack??

* We are talking about "missile interceptors" not "ballistic missiles."...which you don't have.

pls click that link about Akash-Akash has entered service after passing Indian Army's tests-And you think it is not capable enough??3000 missiles are already build,and it is in service from 2009..And you think we doesnt have domestic R & D in SAMs?

Now This thread is about 'How can Pakistan counter India’s ABM system?' and you want me to stop bringing Pakistan in??

Now manufacturing MANPADs and Assualt rifles are not the pinnacle of technological advancement..