How 20 million Pakistanis defeated 500 million indians in 2 wars (1948, 1965) captured from them a territory larger then Austria or Czech Republic

[SIPRA]

Paajee Dr. Syed Rizwan Ahmed has single-handedly been taking on various ridiculous fundamentalist muslim maulvis, politicians, spokespersons, and groups across national news channels and you tube and has millions of followers.

Sir Jee: I have heard this person, a few times on Indian Channels, and I am quite aware of his views, attitude, inclinations and proclivities. I respect your opinion about him; but would prefer to stick to mine, as expressed in my post, to which you are responding.

I know most muslims do not like him because he speaks uncomfortable "inside" truths which the rest of us are not supposed to know.

I may say, as a reverse argument, that he utters such opinions and statements about Muslims, which are liked by most of the Hindus and Hindutvadis. But, that is hardly an argument.

I can't say about others, but I have all the capacity to absorb uncomfortable truths.

But there are many others too. A couple of young very articulate muslim ladies. A couple of pretty senior muslim ladies who make the mullas turn tail and run. There are some from your side like Tarek Fatah and Arif Ajakia. Both true sons of our soil and openly self declared converted Sanatanis.

In my opinion Tarek Fatah also falls in the same category. Others, you are mentioning, I don't know; so wouldn't comment.

In general, I hardly ever follow other people's opinion. I make my own, based upon the verifiable facts. I am a reader of history, since 1975, and I don't even know, how much books and articles, I have read in this field. I have formed my opinions on the basis of that long spell of study.

You may call him a joker. But are any of his facts (in the video, historic names, places, dates, references) wrong? I always make it a point to hear both sides but the conservative Hindu-hostile muslim samudai is losing its narrative here.

History is an extremely tricky and complex subject. Whether, what is being reported or believed, is true, is a long haul. In my lifetime, I have seen many established facts, to be broken down, after appropriate study. Then, there is a problem of bias and prejudice. It virtually kills the objectivity. So, I hardly ever enter into an argument, particularly on a sensitive issue, on social media.

 

[SIPRA]

meri salah lein, toh, inko pehle apna ghar samhalna chahiye, wahan aag lagi hai hui har karmrae me, leadron ko goli maari ja rahi bc

Under such circumstances, "Tuchkar-baazi" and "Chaiza-geeri" becomes all the more necessary, for control of hypertension.

 

[langda khan]

lol

could be my part Punjabiat too.. kinship si feel hondi with a lot (not all) our parosis to the west lol.. hai kuch lafra DNA ka shayad.. not so much with fellow desis to the east, north east, deep south, south east.

A lot of those places/cultures feel so far removed from my native zhit, even as I've made it my home.

Funny place, this dunia..

Blood is a thick bond. No two ways about that.

 

[SIPRA]

Indian jeet re hain, aur kya ?

Don't know. I have hardly read 2 or 3 posts of this thread, in addition to those, in which I have been quoted.

 

[LeGenD]

Indo - Pak War 1965 at a glance:

Operation Gibralter = Pakistan Army was unable to produce insurgency in J&K and Indian Army responded by capturing Haji Pir Pass.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Haji Pir Pass = Indian military victory

- - -

Operation Grand Slam = Pakistan Army advanced in Chamb and Akhnur but further advances were not possible due to Indian counterattack in Punjab.

1965 War: Operation Grand Slam

During Operation Gibraltar, whole infantry battalions were pulled out from their defensive positions by bleeding the holding brigades.

www.globalvillagespace.com

- - -

Sialkot District = Indian Army advanced in some areas but Pakistan Army fought back with a counter-offensive of its own. Mixed results on the whole.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Phillora = Indian military victory

The Battle of Chawinda = Pakistani military victory

- - -

Lahore District (including Kasur District) = Indian Army advanced in some areas but Pakistan Army fought back with a counter-offensive of its own. Mixed results on the whole.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Kasur = Pakistani military victory

The Battle of Khem Karan and Asal Uttar = Indian military victory

1965 War – The Battle for Lahore

Between February and March 1965, Pakistan had a slogging match with India over the Rann of Kutch - a desolate seasonal salt.

www.globalvillagespace.com

1965 War: The battle of Khem Karan and Asal Uttar

On 6th September 1965, the Indian 4 Mountain Division (two mountain brigades and an armored regiment), along the Khem Karan-Kasur axis.

www.globalvillagespace.com

- - -

Operation Dwarka = Pakistan Navy attacked Dwarka virtually unopposed.

- - -

The war was also fought in the air between Pakistan Air Force and Indian Air Force.

When Indian Air Force attacked Pakistan Army in Chamb, Pakistan Air Force was mobilized and directed to prevent Indian Air Force from inflicting heavy losses on Pakistan Army and establish Air Superiority over Pakistan on a broader level.

When Indian Army attacked Lahore District, Pakistan Air Force made an effort to attack Indian Airbases in Adampur, Halwara, and Pathankot. Attack on Indian Airbase in Pathankot was successful but attack on Indian Airbase in Halwara proved costly, and attack on Indian Airbase in Adampur was called off.

On next day, Indian Air Force was able to attack Sargodha Airbase while Pakistan Air Force was able to attack Indian Airbase in Kalaikunda.

Clashes continued in the air and in sectors where battles were taking place in subsequent days of the war.

On the whole, Pakistan Air Force was able to prevent Indian Air Force from inflicting heavy losses on Pakistan Army and establish Air Superiority over Pakistan with its heroics.

The 1965 Air War and the PAF’s Air Dominance by Moiz Khan - CASS Publications

The 1965 Air War between India and Pakistan is often termed as the ‘first real test’ of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). It had to face the Indian full-scale offensive against Pakistan views

casstt.com

- - -

The war led to a stalemate due to both countries suffering heavy losses in various battles. But both countries also produced national heroes to celebrate.

The war was concluded with Tashkent Agreement with both countries vacating captured lands.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/45181510

 

[SIPRA]

Indo - Pak War 1965 at a glance:

Operation Gibralter = Pakistan Army was unable to produce insurgency in J&K and Indian Army responded by capturing Haji Pir Pass.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Haji Pir Pass = Indian military victory

- - -

Operation Grand Slam = Pakistan Army advanced in Chamb and Akhnur but further advances were not possible due to Indian counterattack in Punjab.

1965 War: Operation Grand Slam

During Operation Gibraltar, whole infantry battalions were pulled out from their defensive positions by bleeding the holding brigades.

www.globalvillagespace.com

- - -

Sialkot District = Indian Army advanced in some areas but Pakistan Army fought back with a counter-offensive of its own. Mixed results on the whole.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Phillora = Indian military victory

The Battle of Chawinda = Pakistani military victory

- - -

Lahore District (including Kasur District) = Indian Army advanced in some areas but Pakistan Army fought back with a counter-offensive of its own. Mixed results on the whole.

Notable battles:

The Battle of Kasur = Pakistani military victory

The Battle of Khem Karan and Asal Uttar = Indian military victory

1965 War – The Battle for Lahore

Between February and March 1965, Pakistan had a slogging match with India over the Rann of Kutch - a desolate seasonal salt.

www.globalvillagespace.com

1965 War: The battle of Khem Karan and Asal Uttar

On 6th September 1965, the Indian 4 Mountain Division (two mountain brigades and an armored regiment), along the Khem Karan-Kasur axis.

www.globalvillagespace.com

- - -

Operation Dwarka = Pakistan Navy attacked Dwarka virtually unopposed.

- - -

The war was also fought in the air between Pakistan Air Force and Indian Air Force.

When Indian Air Force attacked Pakistan Army in Chamb, Pakistan Air Force was mobilized and directed to prevent Indian Air Force from inflicting heavy losses on Pakistan Army and establish Air Superiority over Pakistan on a broader level.

When Indian Army attacked Lahore District, Pakistan Air Force made an effort to attack Indian Airbases in Adampur, Halwara, and Pathankot. Attack on Indian Airbase in Pathankot was successful but attack on Indian Airbase in Halwara proved costly, and attack on Indian Airbase in Adampur was called off.

On next day, Indian Air Force was able to attack Sargodha Airbase while Pakistan Air Force was able to attack Indian Airbase in Kalaikunda.

Clashes continued in the air and in sectors where battles were taking place in subsequent days of the war.

On the whole, Pakistan Air Force was able to prevent Indian Air Force from inflicting heavy losses on Pakistan Army and establish Air Superiority over Pakistan with its heroics.

The 1965 Air War and the PAF’s Air Dominance by Moiz Khan - CASS Publications

The 1965 Air War between India and Pakistan is often termed as the ‘first real test’ of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). It had to face the Indian full-scale offensive against Pakistan views

casstt.com

- - -

The war led to a stalemate due to both countries suffering heavy losses in various battles. But both countries also produced national heroes to celebrate.

The war was concluded with Tashkent Agreement with both countries vacating captured lands.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/45181510

Good Summary: Though some facts may be disputable.

 

[jamahir]

@Maula Jatt @El Sidd @Imran Khan @Bilal9 @waz @Sayfullah @AgNoStiC MuSliM @jamahir @lastofthepatriots @SIPRA Paajee @otherinterestingdesimuslimpostersimayhavemissed

I just watched the first few minutes but got the gist and stopped because I must save my 1.5 GB data limit. They are software skins of programmes also floating on PDF by names of @Sayfullah, @Areesh and @Mujahid Memon. These programmes are ritualists and literalists and never-thinkers so If they had been living in Hazrat Muhammad's times they would even declare that Hazrat Muhammad was a "Ghustak-e-rasool" because he ghustak'ed some previous rasool. These ritualist programmes are seeded by a superboss called NATO whose recent imams have included Obomba, B'liar and Sarkozy.

These ritualist programmes seeded by NATO go about Indian roads carrying banners of "Pehle hijab, phir kitaab" while in Iran the people chant "Zan, Zindagi, Azaadi". These ritualists programmes in India no more Muslim than Savarkar, Vallabhbhai Patel and Pramod Muthalik.

But there are many others too. A couple of young very articulate muslim ladies. A couple of pretty senior muslim ladies who make the mullas turn tail and run.

Including this lovely ?

 

[langda khan]

I just watched the first few minutes but got the gist and stopped because I must save my 1.5 GB data limit. They are software skins of programmes also floating on PDF by names of @Sayfullah, @Areesh and @Mujahid Memon. These programmes are ritualists and literalists and never-thinkers so If they had been living in Hazrat Muhammad's times they would even declare that Hazrat Muhammad was a "Ghustak-e-rasool" because he ghustak'ed some previous rasool. These ritualist programmes are seeded by a superboss called NATO whose recent imams have included Obomba, B'liar and Sarkozy.

These ritualist programmes seeded by NATO go about Indian roads carrying banners of "Pehle hijab, phir kitaab" while in Iran the people chant "Zan, Zindagi, Azaadi". These ritualists programmes in India no more Muslim than Savarkar, Vallabhbhai Patel and Pramod Muthalik.



Including this lovely ?

No much younger. There are two famous ones. One of them got a prayer mat and topi and a Geeta on the table during a show with Shoaib Jamai. She rattled off the Hanuman Chalisa and challenged him to wear the topi,kneel on the prayer mat and read it out aloud if he was as he claimed a secular muslim. To his credit Shaib stutteringly did, on national TV. Shoaib Jamai is a punching bag much as you are here. He too keeps smiling and asking for more and taking it.

 

[K_Bin_W]

View attachment 904339View attachment 904340View attachment 904341View attachment 904342

This is a treasure, obviously, Indians will call it a lie...

 

[jamahir]

No much younger. There are two famous ones. One of them got a prayer mat and topi and a Geeta on the table during a show with Shoaib Jamai. She rattled off the Hanuman Chalisa and challenged him to wear the topi,kneel on the prayer mat and read it out aloud if he was as he claimed a secular muslim. To his credit Shaib stutteringly did, on national TV. Shoaib Jamai is a punching bag much as you are here. He too keeps smiling and asking for more and taking it.

I have watched that. It was on some Godi Media, maybe ABP or AajTak. Just a case of two right-wingers confronting, one an open Hindutvadi and the other being one under the garb of modern desi "pious" Muslim.

Neither I nor lovely Arfa will do that.

 

[langda khan]

I have watched that. It was on some Godi Media, maybe ABP or AajTak. Just a case of two right-wingers confronting, one an open Hindutvadi and the other being one under the garb of modern desi "pious" Muslim.

Neither I nor lovely Arfa will do that.

I like that there is a growing number of young Indian muslims owning their cultural heritage and challenging kattarwad in their community. And women are leading the way.

 

[jamahir]

I like that there is a growing number of young Indian muslims owning their cultural heritage and challenging kattarwad in their community. And women are leading the way.

So, what if your cultural heritage, Langde, was of Buddhism and some of those ancestors were forcibly converted to Hinduism and many slaughtered ?

And if we go back 3000 years the Brahmans should own their Irani heritage and many of the rest should own their pre-Hindu tribal heritage. Actually they are now owning it by calling for official recognition of their own pre-Hindu tribal beliefs where they worshiped Nature and not idols. There are a few dozen tribal beliefs in India but generally form similar pattern and they call for themselves to be categorized under Sarna Dharma :

Of late they have been doing demonstrations at Jantar Mantar, Delhi. This article is from June this year and I won't quote the article because of bloody copyrighting so you will have to read it.

I have informed you about this before.

As for "challenging kattarwad in their community", remember it started with "Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain" written on walls.

 

[langda khan]

So, what if your cultural heritage, Langde, was of Buddhism and some of those ancestors were forcibly converted to Hinduism and many slaughtered ?

And if we go back 3000 years the Brahmans should own their Irani heritage and many of the rest should own their pre-Hindu tribal heritage. Actually they are now owning it by calling for official recognition of their own pre-Hindu tribal beliefs where they worshiped Nature and not idols. There are a few dozen tribal beliefs in India but generally form similar pattern and they call for themselves to be categorized under Sarna Dharma :

Of late they have been doing demonstrations at Jantar Mantar, Delhi. This article is from June this year and I won't quote the article because of bloody copyrighting so you will have to read it.

I have informed you about this before.

As for "challenging kattarwad in their community", remember it started with "Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain" written on walls.

Don't talk nonsense man. We are all Hindu.

 

[TheSolution]

Are you the typical leftist Muhajir on your usual 20 + year old "India's developing" rant? You've been ranting it for over years, isn't it getting old now?

Pakistan has missiles that can hit anywhere in India not just the North.

In a nuclear war, all of India would be destroyed and vice versa. There is no imaginary force field protecting the rest of India from Pakistan counter missile attacks.

So you think having the world's largest poor population is an example of development? What about the fact that it's one of the world's dirtiest and filthiest? More poverty than all of Africa https://www.etindia.org/more-poor-in-india-than-africa/

So much for economic growth. I'll countries with smaller economies like Qatar or Denmark are dying of jealousy

Isn't it time the muhajir left and their wishful Sindhi elite sidekicks get a reality check? No disrespect to all Muhajirs.

He didn't say anything wrong, it's just the harsh reality

 

[jamahir]

Don't talk nonsense man. We are all Hindu.

I am Hindi ( at the most ), not Hindu. This is also what those tribals will say.