Hong Kong crowd chants "We are Hong Kong!" during Chinese National anthem for HK Gold medal winner

[Falconless]

I m talking about people in this thread, not people in that mall, and even one tenth of the people make a voice and it seems that everyone is making a voice. The reason why Hong kong is very peaceful and order had been restored is because the majority of the people are not trouble makers.

Sure dude whatever helps you and your bosses sleep.

 

[beijingwalker]

Hongkong crowd waving Chinese national flag to celebrate Hongkong athlete winning another medal in Tokyo Olympic Games

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I m talking about people in this thread, not people in that mall, and even one tenth of the people make a voice and it seems that everyone is making a voice. The reason why Hong kong is very peaceful and order had been restored is because the majority of the people are not trouble makers.

Maybe China "lacks unity, discipline and socio ethnic cohesion"

 

[beijingwalker]

Maybe China "lacks unity, discipline and socio ethnic cohesion"

China doesn't, Hong kong maybe, that's why we are reforming that city, 10 years from now you'll see another Hongkong exactly the same as every other Chinese city.

 

[NiceDay]

What china doing is brainwashing. Indonesia have "patriotic education" but we allow criticism, free thinking & dissent within reason.

‘If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Indonesian flag’: racism, nationalism and Papua
BY RICHARD CHAUVEL

Exposure of widespread racism against Papuans has prompted a shift in the discourse about the acceptance of Papuans in Indonesia.
SEPTEMBER 10, 2019
Protesters at one of the recent anti-racist demonstrations in Papua held a banner reading “If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Red and White (Indonesian flag)”.
The Papuans protesters were saying “if you think we are monkeys, you don’t regard us as fellow Indonesians”. The banner suggests something of a shift in the discourse about the place of Papuans in the Indonesian state.
The protests and demonstrations throughout Papua were triggered by a conflict at a student hostel in Surabaya on the eve of Indonesian Independence Day (17 August), when a nationalist crowd and some soldiers surrounded the hostel and called the students monkeys, dogs and pigs. The students had been accused of throwing an Indonesian flag into a ditch.
The soldiers and the nationalists who surrounded the student hostel in Surabaya are strongly opposed to the separation of Papua from Indonesia. However, whether they realised it or not, their racism sent a mixed message. They insist that Papua is an integral part of Indonesia, but do not regard Papuans as humans, let alone fellow Indonesians.
If the conflict in Surabaya had been an isolated incident there would have been few political consequences. The recent protests are so significant because the clash in Surabaya followed several recent conflicts involving Papuan students studying at universities in Java. More broadly, the racist slurs directed at the Papuan students resonate with the experience of many Papuans. The racism does not distinguish between the governors, pro-independence activists or women selling fruit and vegetables in the markets. It serves to unite Papuans.
Speaking on Najwa Shihab’s current affairs program, Mata Najwa, Papuan church leader and intellectual Dr Benny Giay asserted that Papuans feel they are second class citizens in Indonesia. When there are cases of racism, whether against students in Java, former governor and national hero Frans Kaisepo, or Papuan football players, the government says nothing. Indeed, in the case of the hostel in Surabaya, the security forces were present, as they were in earlier cases.
In similar vein, an editorial in the Suara Papua news portal titled “Humans and Monkeys” (Manusia dan Monyet) asked: “You want evidence of racism? Just ask Papuan students in Java or Papuan footballers at various Indonesian clubs.” With the recent cases in Java, the paper argued, this long experience of humiliation could no longer be tolerated and triggered a wave of pro-independence protests of unprecedented destruction and violence throughout Papua.
The political and historical context to the conflicts around Papuan student hostels in university towns in Java is critical. The conflicts involving Papuan students in Java often occur on anniversaries of political significance.
The day before the Surabaya protest, Papuan students had demonstrated in Malang on the 57th anniversary of the 1962 New York Agreement that transferred the administration of Papua from The Netherlands to Indonesian administration. The students demanded the right of self-determination that had been denied to Papua in 1962, when there had been no Papuans involved in negotiations. The Papuan students were met with a counter demonstration, racial abuse and stone-throwing.
Following the conflicts in Surabaya and Malang, as well as the demonstrations in Papua, retired General Wiranto the Coordinating Security Minister, rejected Papuan demands for a referendum, saying the New York Agreement had determined that Papua was part of Indonesia.
Wiranto reminded us that the Indonesian Government and many Papuans have diametrically opposed interpretations of the shared history of Papua’s integration into Indonesia during the 1960s.
Not all the recent conflicts involving Papuan students studying in Java have occurred around the politically contested anniversaries of Papua’s integration into Indonesia.
In July 2016, in Yogyakarta, Papuan students were prevented from demonstrating in support of the United Liberation Movement for West Papua (ULMWP), which was lobbying to become a member of the Melanesian Spearhead Group (MSG). The student hostel was blockaded by the National Police’s Mobile Brigade (Brimob) and local nationalist groups, and Papuan students were called monkeys and told to leave. As student leader Aris Yeimo noted, all this occurred in Yogyakarta, a city known for its pluralism and support for democracy and human rights.
The Papuan students studying at Indonesian universities outside Papua are a critical segment of Papuan society. Most of them are studying with the support of local and provincial governments in Papua. While there is much contestation about Indonesia’s development policies in Papua and who benefits from them, the Papuan students in Java and other provinces are clearly among the beneficiaries of government policies. After they finish their studies, the students will return to Papua and some will become leaders in their societies. The students demonstrating in Surabaya, Malang and Yogyakarta will be among the political elite in the coming decades.
In an ideal world, the Papuans studying with students from other provinces and living in the university towns of the Indonesian heartland should be developing a greater identification as Indonesians as well as a deeper knowledge of the many other cultures in Indonesia. The conflicts in Surabaya, Malang, Yogyakarta and elsewhere suggest that, instead, their Papuan identity is being reinforced.
Jenny Munro’s detailed study of the educational experiences of Papuan highlander students at universities in the province of North Sulawesi provides a broader context in which to analyse the conflicts involving Papuan students. Munro’s study found that the students saw education offering the prospect of transforming their own society and fulfilling dreams of acquiring skills in a peaceful cosmopolitan society. However, the students’ dreams were made small by oppressive racism and political constraints. Rather than encouraging them to identify more as Indonesians, the education experience in North Sulawesi consolidated the students’ Papuan identity.
The conflicts in Surabaya and Malang triggered pro-independence demonstrations throughout Papua of an unprecedented scale of destruction, with the loss of life among the demonstrators and the security forces. The banned Papuan Morning Star flag was flown by demonstrators in front of the State Palace in Jakarta. The Indonesian government curtailed access to the internet in Papua. Troop re-enforcements have been sent to Papua to add to an already significant deployment. This has been followed by a flurry of official meetings between government leaders, including President Joko Widodo, and Papuan leaders.
However, the conflicts around the student hostels and the racism expressed against Papuans expose deeper problems about the respect for Papuans by their fellow Indonesians – problems that cannot be addressed by sending more troops, building more roads or yet another presidential visit.

'If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Indonesian flag': racism, nationalism and Papua - Indonesia at Melbourne

Dr Richard Chauvel writes that exposure of racism towards Papuans has prompted a shift in the discourse about the acceptance of Papuans in Indonesia.

indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

‘If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Indonesian flag’: racism, nationalism and Papua
BY RICHARD CHAUVEL

Exposure of widespread racism against Papuans has prompted a shift in the discourse about the acceptance of Papuans in Indonesia.
SEPTEMBER 10, 2019
Protesters at one of the recent anti-racist demonstrations in Papua held a banner reading “If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Red and White (Indonesian flag)”.
The Papuans protesters were saying “if you think we are monkeys, you don’t regard us as fellow Indonesians”. The banner suggests something of a shift in the discourse about the place of Papuans in the Indonesian state.
The protests and demonstrations throughout Papua were triggered by a conflict at a student hostel in Surabaya on the eve of Indonesian Independence Day (17 August), when a nationalist crowd and some soldiers surrounded the hostel and called the students monkeys, dogs and pigs. The students had been accused of throwing an Indonesian flag into a ditch.
The soldiers and the nationalists who surrounded the student hostel in Surabaya are strongly opposed to the separation of Papua from Indonesia. However, whether they realised it or not, their racism sent a mixed message. They insist that Papua is an integral part of Indonesia, but do not regard Papuans as humans, let alone fellow Indonesians.
If the conflict in Surabaya had been an isolated incident there would have been few political consequences. The recent protests are so significant because the clash in Surabaya followed several recent conflicts involving Papuan students studying at universities in Java. More broadly, the racist slurs directed at the Papuan students resonate with the experience of many Papuans. The racism does not distinguish between the governors, pro-independence activists or women selling fruit and vegetables in the markets. It serves to unite Papuans.
Speaking on Najwa Shihab’s current affairs program, Mata Najwa, Papuan church leader and intellectual Dr Benny Giay asserted that Papuans feel they are second class citizens in Indonesia. When there are cases of racism, whether against students in Java, former governor and national hero Frans Kaisepo, or Papuan football players, the government says nothing. Indeed, in the case of the hostel in Surabaya, the security forces were present, as they were in earlier cases.
In similar vein, an editorial in the Suara Papua news portal titled “Humans and Monkeys” (Manusia dan Monyet) asked: “You want evidence of racism? Just ask Papuan students in Java or Papuan footballers at various Indonesian clubs.” With the recent cases in Java, the paper argued, this long experience of humiliation could no longer be tolerated and triggered a wave of pro-independence protests of unprecedented destruction and violence throughout Papua.
The political and historical context to the conflicts around Papuan student hostels in university towns in Java is critical. The conflicts involving Papuan students in Java often occur on anniversaries of political significance.
The day before the Surabaya protest, Papuan students had demonstrated in Malang on the 57th anniversary of the 1962 New York Agreement that transferred the administration of Papua from The Netherlands to Indonesian administration. The students demanded the right of self-determination that had been denied to Papua in 1962, when there had been no Papuans involved in negotiations. The Papuan students were met with a counter demonstration, racial abuse and stone-throwing.
Following the conflicts in Surabaya and Malang, as well as the demonstrations in Papua, retired General Wiranto the Coordinating Security Minister, rejected Papuan demands for a referendum, saying the New York Agreement had determined that Papua was part of Indonesia.
Wiranto reminded us that the Indonesian Government and many Papuans have diametrically opposed interpretations of the shared history of Papua’s integration into Indonesia during the 1960s.
Not all the recent conflicts involving Papuan students studying in Java have occurred around the politically contested anniversaries of Papua’s integration into Indonesia.
In July 2016, in Yogyakarta, Papuan students were prevented from demonstrating in support of the United Liberation Movement for West Papua (ULMWP), which was lobbying to become a member of the Melanesian Spearhead Group (MSG). The student hostel was blockaded by the National Police’s Mobile Brigade (Brimob) and local nationalist groups, and Papuan students were called monkeys and told to leave. As student leader Aris Yeimo noted, all this occurred in Yogyakarta, a city known for its pluralism and support for democracy and human rights.
The Papuan students studying at Indonesian universities outside Papua are a critical segment of Papuan society. Most of them are studying with the support of local and provincial governments in Papua. While there is much contestation about Indonesia’s development policies in Papua and who benefits from them, the Papuan students in Java and other provinces are clearly among the beneficiaries of government policies. After they finish their studies, the students will return to Papua and some will become leaders in their societies. The students demonstrating in Surabaya, Malang and Yogyakarta will be among the political elite in the coming decades.
In an ideal world, the Papuans studying with students from other provinces and living in the university towns of the Indonesian heartland should be developing a greater identification as Indonesians as well as a deeper knowledge of the many other cultures in Indonesia. The conflicts in Surabaya, Malang, Yogyakarta and elsewhere suggest that, instead, their Papuan identity is being reinforced.
Jenny Munro’s detailed study of the educational experiences of Papuan highlander students at universities in the province of North Sulawesi provides a broader context in which to analyse the conflicts involving Papuan students. Munro’s study found that the students saw education offering the prospect of transforming their own society and fulfilling dreams of acquiring skills in a peaceful cosmopolitan society. However, the students’ dreams were made small by oppressive racism and political constraints. Rather than encouraging them to identify more as Indonesians, the education experience in North Sulawesi consolidated the students’ Papuan identity.
The conflicts in Surabaya and Malang triggered pro-independence demonstrations throughout Papua of an unprecedented scale of destruction, with the loss of life among the demonstrators and the security forces. The banned Papuan Morning Star flag was flown by demonstrators in front of the State Palace in Jakarta. The Indonesian government curtailed access to the internet in Papua. Troop re-enforcements have been sent to Papua to add to an already significant deployment. This has been followed by a flurry of official meetings between government leaders, including President Joko Widodo, and Papuan leaders.
However, the conflicts around the student hostels and the racism expressed against Papuans expose deeper problems about the respect for Papuans by their fellow Indonesians – problems that cannot be addressed by sending more troops, building more roads or yet another presidential visit.

'If we are monkeys, don’t force monkeys to fly the Indonesian flag': racism, nationalism and Papua - Indonesia at Melbourne

Dr Richard Chauvel writes that exposure of racism towards Papuans has prompted a shift in the discourse about the acceptance of Papuans in Indonesia.

indonesiaatmelbourne.unimelb.edu.au

Notice that there's a protest

 

[Beast]

Notice that there's a protest

What is the different? Looks like karma struck back.

Better settle your home business before talk about Hong Kong.

I do understand most Indonesian understand China internal affairs and will not intervene becos Indo have many internal problems too. They know they have no right to point finger or gloat at others.

Only a few paid clown sold their loyalty to western countries will represent Indonesia. These are the one who will run off first when Indonesian has a war.

 

[Titanium100]

This thread escalated

 

[Falconless]

China doesn't, Hong kong maybe, that's why we are reforming that city, 10 years from now you'll see another Hongkong exactly the same as every other Chinese city.

Doesn’t that kill the benefits China gets from Hong Kong’s unique environment? Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

[beijingwalker]

Doesn’t that kill the benefits China gets from Hong Kong’s unique environment? Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot.

What benefits? Hongkong's GDP slipped behind Shenzhen and Guangzhou , let alone Beijing and Shanghai, Hongkong benefitted much more from the mainland than the other way around. without mainland support, it won't even have drinking water.

 

[Falconless]

What benefits? Hongkong's GDP slipped behind Shenzhen and Guangzhou , let alone Beijing and Shanghai, Hongkong benefitted much more from the mainland than the other way around. without mainland support, it won't even have drinking water.

Hmmm, explain me this then. Why does 90% of China’s FDI flow through Hong Kong and why do most Chinese conglomerates have their legal headquarters in Hong Kong.

Also if it’s irrelevant wouldn’t it be better in the long term to throw it out of China and let the City die without electricity and water from the mainland?

 

[Place Of Space]

Hmmm, explain me this then. Why does 90% of China’s FDI flow through Hong Kong and why do most Chinese conglomerates have their legal headquarters in Hong Kong.

Also if it’s irrelevant wouldn’t it be better in the long term to throw it out of China and let the City die without electricity and water from the mainland?

HK belong to the world, ok? Happy?

 

[Falconless]

HK belong to the world, ok? Happy?

Why so jumpy?

 

[nang2]

Hmmm, explain me this then. Why does 90% of China’s FDI flow through Hong Kong and why do most Chinese conglomerates have their legal headquarters in Hong Kong.

Also if it’s irrelevant wouldn’t it be better in the long term to throw it out of China and let the City die without electricity and water from the mainland?

It is Chinese who take advantage of Chinese policy that favors FDI. So, they send money out to Hong Kong and then bring it back as FDI. It is just domestic capital pretending to be FDI.

 

[beijingwalker]

Hmmm, explain me this then. Why does 90% of China’s FDI flow through Hong Kong and why do most Chinese conglomerates have their legal headquarters in Hong Kong.

I don't know what you got this number, but Hongkong 's role is serving as a re export hub, without mainland China, it's nothing, the money it made is mostly from the mainland.
Hong kong did play a important role during the initial stage of China's open up policy but not now. and will be less and less in the future.