History’s baggage: Pakistan’s Punjab problem

[Secur]

Your Great-Great-Great-Great Uncle Ghalib would be so disappointed !

Ten times the great , maybe

 

[Armstrong]

Ten times the great , maybe

I was thinking the same thing maybe too many 'Greats' would end up taking us back to before he was even born !

 

[Developereo]

I'd like your input too

Broad generalizations based on ethnicity are bound to be fallacious, and I wouldn't want to comment on them.

Personally, when I rail against Punjabi and Sindhi feudals, I am specifically talking about the feudal agenda, not their ethnicity. The Baluchi sardars are no better but are, thankfully, limited in their scope of damage.

 

[Ayush]

Not just Punjab.

Many of us Karachite Urdu Spanking People have no forking clue about the history of our adopted home aka Sindh
and

we are definitely ignoramous about our ancestor's palces in Bihar and UP.

But that is a separate discussion.

It is not a provincial thing.

It is our intellectual laziness about everything but especially history.

so what do u wanna know?i m from bihar TOO

 

[Nassr]

He is pretty accurate over-all.

PS, all this talk of 'superior civilization of British' is nothing but itself a reflection of how people like Ayaz Amir are themselves slave to colonial past. Civilizations rise and go down. In the past, Arabs taught civilization to "unclean, and savage" Europeans. Then the role reversed and Europeans took the lead in around 18th century. So on....

It is funny to see people write 'superior' every time they write something about West, but you won't see them writing same word for Arabs, Chinese, Indians, and Egyptians..even though, at different times of history, these civilizations were also ahead of the rest.

West was leading the world at that time, Muslim punjabis should have learned from them and their experience etc. Nothing more to that. Ayaz Amir can keep this 'superior civilization' bullsh!t to himself.

Coming back to the topic:

Pakistani Punjabis have shown no caliber, nor any backbone. They have held back the rest of Pakistan along with them. Pathans, a reputed people all across the world for their valor and gutts, were never afraid of taking risks. Look at their voting history, KPK province has changed parties consecutively one after another. Either you deliver, or Pathans will kick you out of power. NO SECOND CHANCE! And look at Punjabis, they have had their daughters raped by same people again and again and again...and YET they STILL voted the very SAME god damn family parties into power..breaking all records of slavery.

New generation of Muslim Punjabis have a huge burden on their shoulders. They shall redeem themselves by rising up to occasion and transforming the state of Pakistan.

One of the best comments that I have read on this forum.

 

[Armstrong]

so what do u wanna know?i m from bihar TOO

You are a scar on the butt of Bihar !

Couldn't even eat a single Bihari Kebab & yet has the nerve to call himself a Bihari !

 

[Chronos]

He is pretty accurate over-all.

PS, all this talk of 'superior civilization of British' is nothing but itself a reflection of how people like Ayaz Amir are themselves slave to colonial past. Civilizations rise and go down. In the past, Arabs taught civilization to "unclean, and savage" Europeans. Then the role reversed and Europeans took the lead in around 18th century. So on....

It is funny to see people write 'superior' every time they write something about West, .

Europeans took the lead when they ditched religion and took up scientific inquiry as a method to answer life's questions.

And western civilization is not just 500 years old, It has it's roots in Athenian democracy, it has it's roots in the Roman Empire. We still marvel today at the Roman capability for documentation, their military discipline etc.

The western jurisprudence has elements from Roman jurisprudence. The Magna Carta, a document founded in 13th century England forms the basis of most of our rules.

It's not a superior, inferior thing. The fact is, you are writing in English, a western language, using the Internet, a western invention. Your computer is powered by electricity a western discovery.

The lesson to draw is not to dwell on your past glories, but look towards improving our current lot. Clearly western nations have done something right.

In my mind, it is the whittling away of religious authority and choosing science.

You are a scar on the butt of Bihar !

Couldn't even eat a single Bihari Kebab & yet has the nerve to call himself a Bihari !

I am from Kerala.

I just want to feel special that's all

 

[Chronos]

@Armstrong. Informative post.

A lot of Indians too are ignorant I bet of the complexities of ethnic and linguistic diversity in Pakistan.

I must read more on this

 

[livingdead]

I did not read the whole thing @Armstrong wrote but I agree with him 100 % of what I read..

 

[AUz]

Europeans took the lead when they ditched religion and took up scientific inquiry as a method to answer life's questions.

And western civilization is not just 500 years old, It has it's roots in Athenian democracy, it has it's roots in the Roman Empire. We still marvel today at the Roman capability for documentation, their military discipline etc.

The western jurisprudence has elements from Roman jurisprudence. The Magna Carta, a document founded in 13th century England forms the basis of most of our rules.

It's not a superior, inferior thing. The fact is, you are writing in English, a western language, using the Internet, a western invention. Your computer is powered by electricity a western discovery.

The lesson to draw is not to dwell on your past glories, but look towards improving our current lot. Clearly western nations have done something right.

In my mind, it is the whittling away of religious authority and choosing science.

Europeans took the lead for many various reasons...many of them purely based on dumb luck.

PS, yes West's contributions can't be ignored..but we must not become psychological slaves of West...

 

[FaujHistorian]

Europeans took the lead for many various reasons...many of them purely based on dumb luck.

PS, yes West's contributions can't be ignored..but we must not become psychological slaves of West...

When you admire the top student in your class,

you don't become his slave.

You just set high expectations for your ownself.

It is time to move away from pathetic 2-ana statements.

Thank you.



Back to the thread
==================

Punjabis in particular but Pakistanis in generals have no forking idea about the importance of achieving excellence in a specific field.

Punjabi army and police guys have excelled in their field for the last 200 years.

Instead of criticizing them, it is time for the non-military guys to get their act together and be really good (internationally recognized) in their own field.

So far it looks like a nikmma fail brother criticizing the other who just happen to be a successful military man.


Hope you all understand.

 

[AUz]

When you admire the top student in your class,

you don't become his slave.

You just set high expectations for your ownself.

It is time to move away from pathetic 2-ana statements.

Thank you.

Only 2-anna statements are being made by you.

First thing, student analogy is very weak here...

Secondly, I don't know about others, but I definitely know the difference b/w admiration and psychological slavery.......

 

[FaujHistorian]

....
First thing, student analogy is very weak here...
......

So a good example that contradicts your narrow views, is simply discarded as "weak". ha!

....

Secondly, I don't know about others, but I definitely know the difference b/w admiration and psychological slavery.......

But you don't believe in the example to begin with, then how on earth you can tell the difference based on the same example that is rejected by you.

Please no mental qalabazi, no haira phairy, no hanky phanky.


Thank you

 

[AUz]

So a good example that contradicts your narrow views, is simply discarded as "weak". ha!




But you don't believe in the example to begin with, then how on earth you can tell the difference based on the same example that is rejected by you.

Please no mental qalabazi, no haira phairy, no hanky phanky.


Thank you

Oh bhai I am not in mood of any long, scholarly discussion...

As I said, I do know what I am talking about. I worked on sociology through anthropological methods along with our professors etc. We discussed neo-colonialism, and how Western influences construct the thoughts and behaviors of 'other people' so much so that they lose their independent worldview and they don't even know that.

As one of my professor said, most of the reality we believe to be 'natural' is just socially constructed over time but masses don't realize that.

For one example: ALOT of people in 'slave' countries see white color as the standard of beauty...Why is it? For these people, it is 'natural' to like/admire white complexion..and they think it is by 'nature'..but actually, they are admiring white color b/c they are socially constructed to do so over centuries by the 'white' colonists.

Hint: Do you think if Europeans were of brownish skin tone, we would not have admired that kind of skin tone like we admire 'white' today?

"Learning" from the civilization that is ahead of you is very normal...but becoming psychological slaves of that civilization is a whole different story.

Majority of people of unfortunate countries like ours are psychologically colonized by West, its social construction, its education system, and its cultural matrix (even if aspects of that culture are garbage compared to the local one, locals tend to follow that 'garbage' instead of superior aspects of their own culture. For example, many "cool" Pakistani/Indian/African teenagers listen to songs and watch hollywood movies that are regarded as utter garbage over here..but still, Pakistanis feel "proud" to listen to those crap songs in a foreign, alien language.,.most of the time they don't even understand what is being said but still they feel "proud" by listening to those songs coming from West..think "why" is that?

One reason: Utter and complete dominating of West in marketing)

Anyways, we are deviating from the subject. I just raised a concern on Ayaz Amir's use of 'superior civilization' when talking about British, even though he won't use this word if he was talking about Song China compared to Europe of medieval age..

 

[KingMamba]

Without intending to inflame , this well analysed article bring back an old question to mind.

Why do Pakistanis ( Punjabis) allow them selves to be trod over ?

Punjabis own Pakistan so who is trodding over whom?

This article is just another attempt at trying to blame Punjabis for the problems of all Pakistanis, it is pathetic and honestly quite redundant.