History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[ChineseTiger1986]

This is your history.

 

[NiceGuy]

You allowed those pro-Christian beggars to run your country which means you are quite weak by yourselves.

pro-Christian and Chinese helped VNese to expand to the South, so,in the return, we must share the power with them.

When both pro-Christian and Chinese became our problem, we simply kick them out all. pro-Christian out in 1975 and then Chinese out in 1979

 

[Grand Historian]

1.
40 % Cantonese and 37 % Wuyue people don't shared partial bloodline with Han people Han in Northern China, they are native people called as Bai Yue in early history of China.

2. CouJian, Zhoa Tuo and his soldiers were Han, they created WuYue, NamYue, MinYue Dynasties in ancient time. Its similar to Spanol, Portugal, English men created countries today called Latin American states in America continent. Mixed people can not say they are pure Spanol, Portugal or white men.

3. Dongyi is called for WuYue people, or Jingshu (荆楚) not for Japanese nor Korean, because when the concept "DongYi" born, created by Northern Hans, they did not know where are Japanese are living in this time, they were in Islands as far in oversea, not in East area of mainland China.

4. At beginning statement of our History book, it stated that "when God created many countries, looked at Jiaozhi people who is out of BaiYue ..." its means from long time in the past, so that our ancestors dont considered themselves belong to Bai Yue (Tai/Kay) people. In fact Vietnames/Kinh people is belong Mon Khmer people

Our History book is also stated that: "Van Lang to the East it touched the Southern Sea, to the West Ba and Shu, to the North Lake Dongting, ...."

A genetically based conclusion that the Hmong-Mien peoples are an offshoot of the Mon-Khmer peoples,

Dispatches From Turtle Island: Genetic Links of Mon-Khmer and Hmong-Mien Peoples Confirmed

So we can believe that in ancient time Hung King was ruler of our our land, today is Southern China, North point reached to DongDing Lake in China.

1. Attaching a haplogroup to an ethnicity or language is ridiculous.

These haplogroups existed prior to the modern identities of Baiyue or Chinese.

O1a and is also found Koreans,Mongolians,Uighurs and Japanese that doesn't mean they're descended from Baiyue people.

If a Han Chinese has a Western Eurasian haplogroup that doesn't mean they're White...

You don't seem to realize none of these studies are conclusive,different areas of Guangdong received more immigration than others.

Where does O1 or O2 make up 40 and 37%?

2. Goujian ancestry is unknown his family claimed descent from Yu who is mythical in the end his family might just be sinicized people.

Zhao Tuo was from Zhending,Zhao so he was definitely considered "Chinese".

Regardless Han ethnicity did not exist then and you are inaccurately portraying them as Han.

I certainly don't champion a pure Han ethnicity,no ethnicity on the face of the earth is pure including Vietnamese.

Why are you so obsessed with Southern Han Chinese Baiyue ancestry?


3. Neither the states of GouWu or YuYue were labeled Dongyi,it was Shang era barbarians that lived there.

I already stated in my previous post that it was the term was reused to apply to Koreans and Japanese.

4.No your ancestors explicitly claimed descent from the Luoyue and Ouyue who were part of the Baiyue.

So all of sudden Hmong-Mien and Austro Asiatic speakers are "Vietnamese"?

What Ngo Si Lien claimed is false, there is no historical records of that era or archaeological artifacts.

There is no evidence of the Hung King either,please show a scholar source that agrees with you.

 

[Viet]

2. Goujian ancestry is unknown his family claimed descent from Yu who is mythical in the end his family might just be sinicized people.

Zhao Tuo was from Zhending,Zhao so he was definitely considered "Chinese".

Regardless Han ethnicity did not exist then and you are inaccurately portraying them as Han.

I certainly don't champion a pure Han ethnicity,no ethnicity on the face of the earth is pure including Vietnamese.

Why are you so obsessed with Southern Han Chinese Baiyue ancestry?

Who tells you that Zhao Tuo was Chinese, when China even did not exist back then?

Even if Zhao Tuo was Chinese, the country he ruled did not belong to his homeland where he was born. Remember NamViet (NanYue) was an independent nation. Learn history!

At all, If people followed your logic the German Third Reich under Adolf Hitler belongs to Austria because he was born there. The French Empire under Napoleon Bonaparte belongs to Corse, because he was born there. The Russian Empire under Katharina die Große belongs to Germany because she was born there, and so fort...

You should stop posting shit. Can you tell me how many Non-Han´s/ non-Chinese ruled China?

I don´t comment further on the last part. I just wonder who is more obsessed with Baiyue? Apparently you!

 

[EastSea]

This is your history.

Here is our true history land, Hung King was ruler of Northern group of Austro - Asiatic Mon/Khmer/Kinh people.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Here is our true history land, Hung King was ruler of Northern group of Austro - Asiatic Mon/Khmer/Kinh people.

Didn't you say that you Kinh people aren't related to the people from Shanghai to Guangdong, so why including our territory in this map?

 

[INDIC]

What ethnic group Tai people belongs to, anybody know their haplogroup.

 

[sincity]

Didn't you say that you Kinh people aren't related to the people from Shanghai to Guangdong, so why including our territory in this map?

Just ignore the fool.

 

[Grand Historian]

Who tells you that Zhao Tuo was Chinese, when China even did not exist back then?

Even if Zhao Tuo was Chinese, the country he ruled did not belong to his homeland where he was born. Remember NamViet (NanYue) was an independent nation. Learn history!

At all, If people followed your logic the Third Reich

Even if Zhao Tuo was Chinese, the country he ruled did not belong to his homeland where he was born. Remember NamViet (NanYue) was an independent nation. Learn history!

o was Chinese, the country he ruled did not belong to his homeland where he was born. Remember NamViet (NanYue) was an independent nation. Learn history!

At all, If people followed your logic the Th

under Adolf Hitler belongs to Austria because he was born there. The French Empire under Napoleon Bonaparte belongs to Corse, because he was born there. The Russian Empire under Katharina die Große belongs to Germany because she was born there, and so fort...

You should stop posting shit.

I don´t comment further on the last part. I just wonder who is more obessed with Baiyue?

I don't think it takes a genius to realize that the Warring States are Chinese,no one ever viewed Zhao as semi barbaric unlike GouWu,YuYue,Qin and Chu.

Yes Qin unified Northern China however to say China existed then is ridiculous,there was the previous Zhou and Shang which are recognized worldwide as Chinese.

Did Vietnam exist only after the conquest of Cham,of course not...

I never stated that Nanyue is Chinese stop putting words in my mouth,I stated Zhao Tuo is Chinese.

Vietnamese nationalists always harp on how China was under foreign rule yet several Vietnamese dynasties had Chinese ancestors so its the pot calling the kettle black.

You do realize that Zhao Tuo relented to being a vassal under the Han and apologized for his aggressiveness against Changsha.

Why Zhao Tuo sought to rival the Han is unknown it could be anything from avarice,revenge or a grand delusion.

Where are the primary sources that said he fought for the Yue identity which you nationalist Vietnamese wish to twist that he was fighting for Vietnamese.

More than likely Nanyue was a Sincized kingdom with a mixed population of Qin convicts/soldiers and various Baiyue tribes that later conquered Au Lac,true Zhao Tuo squatted like a Yue and adopted some clothing however from artifacts Chinese seals,jade suits and government were still used.

Keep in mind that Zhao Tuo's capital was in Panyu and that it is unknown what time of Baiyue his descendants married.

If you are at all interested in the subject why don't you read modern day research such as 古南越国史 or primary sources such as Shiji?

It seems quite common of you to resort to petty insults when you are backed into a corner.

Tell me,where is the historical and archaeological proof for the existence of Xich Quy,Van Lang or Hung Kings?

Strange how you mention I'm obsessed with Baiyue people,they are natives of Southern China I cannot deny that my ancestors mixed with them,however nationalistic Vietnamese always try to claim that Southern Han Chinese are brainwashed and are kin.

Is that not a sign of inferiority complex?

Here is our true history land, Hung King was ruler of Northern group of Austro - Asiatic Mon/Khmer/Kinh people.

Now you show your true colors,regardless there is no proof of kingdom of that size and is nothing more than mental masturbation

I find it absolutely hilarious how former vassals/tributaries of China try to piggy back off China's splendor and civilization.

Not only to nationalistic Vietnamese and Koreans distort history they even claim that Chinese are part Korean or Vietnamese!

Seems like the only thing that will satisfy these nationalists is the China splintering into smaller factions and recognizing their "lost" Baiyue/Nomadic roots.

 

[Viet]

...
Not only to nationalistic Vietnamese and Koreans distort history they even claim that Chinese are part Korean or Vietnamese!

Seems like the only thing that will satisfy these nationalists is the China splintering into smaller factions and recognizing their "lost" Baiyue/Nomadic roots.

again a long post from you. Let me reply on one part.

I see you love those words "nationalist" and "inferiority complex" as you keep repeating. I don´t mind but just wonder if these attitudes fit better to someone else?

I don´t want to dabate with you on Korean history. I read some stuffs about it, but it is better when Korean members reply to your posts. To put it simple: your view is disputed.

Your claim reduces to this simple math: "China is everywhere, and so everything is Chinese", reminds me to your current claim: "The South China Sea is mine, because I was the first there who sailed through the waters and the first who catched the first fish." in your view the world is full of Chinese, no other people live in the region. Others don´t have own history. Simply rediculous!

First and foremost You should be clear about what defines a nation? What makes it standing out from others? What is China? Where it begins and where it ends?

Not influence in all sorts of such as cultures, custom, land of birth of the ruler or whether tributary state. It is sovereignty the ruler has over his nation and people.

 

[EastSea]

Didn't you say that you Kinh people aren't related to the people from Shanghai to Guangdong, so why including our territory in this map?

In the ancient time, our Hung King ruled the country flexibly on majority people Mon/Khmer/H'mong mien/JiaoZhi/kinh etc ... only. He didn't cared to much about other minorities native people.

 

[Grand Historian]

again a long post from you. Let me reply on one part.

I see you love those words "nationalist" and "inferiority complex" as you keep repeating. I don´t mind but just wonder if these attitudes fit better to someone else?

I don´t want to dabate with you on Korean history. I read some stuffs about it, but it is better when Korean members reply to your posts. To put it simple: your view is disputed.

Your claim reduces to this simple math: "China is everywhere, and so everything is Chinese", reminds me to your current claim: "The South China Sea is mine, because I was the first there who sailed through the waters and the first who catched the first fish." in your view the world is full of Chinese, no other people live in the region. Others don´t have own history. Simply rediculous!

First and foremost You should be clear about what defines a nation? What makes it standing out from others? What is China? Where it begins and where it ends?

Not influence in all sorts of such as cultures, custom, land of birth of the ruler or whether tributary state. It is sovereignty the ruler has over his nation and people.

Vietnamese members on this forum have been claiming that Southern Han Chinese that we are brainwashed and Baiyue people how is this not a mark of nationalism.

Face it, after living in the shadow of Chinese civilization inventing a past that predates the Chinese is a source of pride.

It seems like you two lack academic integrity,all the questions I post are legitimate yet you copy and paste the same banal claims over and over again without any sort of proof whatsoever.

When have I claimed the whole world is Chinese I didn't even mention the South China Sea again you are putting words in my mouth.

Rather I claim the Spring Autumn/Warring States are Chinese and the peripheral states such as Chu,YuYue and GouWu already submitted themselves to the Chinese world order by cementing their kinship to Xia and Zhou kings.

There's a reason why these states are included in Chinese history.

If Zhao is not Chinese what is it then?

The same questions should be applied to you.

You claim that there was a Vietnam during the Hung king's reign yet you criticize me for claiming there was a China before the Qin dynasty this is another example of your blatant hypocrisy.

Zhao Tuo recognized Han Gaozu as his suzerain go look it up in the Shiji.

In the ancient time, our Hung King ruled the country flexibly on majority people Mon/Khmer/H'mong mien/JiaoZhi/kinh etc ... only. He didn't cared to much about other minorities native people.

I already posted why the existence of Xich Quy,Van Lang or the Hung kings are disputed yet you feel the need to spread your propaganda around...


To be frank,it is quite tiring seeing the same things over and over again,either you have academic sources or you don't.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Hi Vietnamese friends here, I have something to verify. According to various sources, there is a pro-China, and this faction is gaining a slightly upper edge in Vietnam.

I believe Chairman Nong Duc Manh is slightly pro-China，so is Nguyễn Phú Trọng,..etc.

Want to listen to your comment about this.

 

[NiceGuy]

Hi Vietnamese friends here, I have something to verify. According to various sources, there is a pro-China, and this faction is gaining a slightly upper edge in Vietnam.

I believe Chairman Nong Duc Manh is slightly pro-China，so is Nguyễn Phú Trọng,..etc.

Want to listen to your comment about this.

its just a rumor, Nguyễn Phú Trọng is old, hes good at delivering a speech and just like other members of VN politburo (16 member), his power is not strong enough to exert an influence to the whole VN communist party

 

[MACKLEMORE]

Also Chinese refer to Viet people in China as the Jīng (京族). 京 itself stands for Peking?
Gin people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


salut elis, tu parles anglais, vietnamien et français?

NO.

京 means capital city. 东京 means Bianjing, the capital of Song Dynasty, 南京 means Nanjing, the capital city of Republic of China.