Snomannen
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Baiyue is China.We consider it as invasion of our land
That's land of Baiyue
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Baiyue is China.We consider it as invasion of our land
That's land of Baiyue
Ngo Si Lien, when his turn came, he took the version of Ban Co. Again word by word he copied the Chinese text. He added, however, another omission, small in appearance, but loaded with historical meaning. He left out three characters that are translated into ‘gradually he used lawful disguises’. To take the Vietnamese historian’s text, the sentence should be; ‘At that, he eliminated the officials appointed by the Tan…’. Thus, Trieu Da appears to be cruel and no politician at all
These tales involved far-away peoples and immemorial times concerning the nation, why not use them to make Dai Viet great and Le Thanh tong glorious? A great nation bespeaks a great king, and a great nation is great when its area is immense and its past distant. With all that in mind, Ngo Si Lien compiled his Complete History, in which fairies and ghosts were as real as human beings. He was very successful.
I think, your nick is "RaiseoftheNegrito" troll on other forum.Who is that guy, can you disclose his nick ?.
I think, your nick is "yuenan" troll on other forum.
what race are you? You claim you are a Viet, aren´t you? so you are a joke, too?why should i listen to you? your race is a joke, in all my 1 year trolling career I only met one Viet was superior mentality, many was way more knowledgeable than me but their brain was worked quite unusually
......
After browsing through this thread and many other similar ones on the internet, the inferiority complex of Vietnamese nationalists is blatantly obvious.
I will list several agendas that Vietnamese nationalists try to propagate.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are genetically separate populations.
2.Southern Han Chinese are sinicized Baiyue/Baipu.
3.All Baiyue are Vietnamese.
4.The kingdoms of Xich Quy and Van Lang existed and they covered Southern China.
5.Chinese owe their achievements to ancient Baiyue people.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are not two separate populations,they have been mixing for generations ie ethnic Han/Hua that fled in times of great turmoil to Southern China).
If SHC and NHC are separate populations why is the proportion of Y-haplogroups similar to each other?
Why is there a genetic cline instead of distinct separate populations?
Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation
Furthermore attaching an ethnicity to a haplogroup is problematic,they formed before the presence of modern day Chinese or Vietnamese.
2.This question is the definition of asinine.
From Wu Taibo and Wu Zhongyong to GouWu,YuYue to Minyue and DongOu,Zhuang Qiao and his soldiers to Dian,Zhao Tuo and Qin era soldiers/convicts in Nanyue these are just some ancient examples you probably already know examples such as the Fall of Western Jin and Northern Song.
There is also genealogical records that Chinese families own though claims of descent from legendary sages or kings should be treated with suspicion.
So how could SHC only compose of natives not migrants?
3. Baiyue are theorized to belong to separate language families such Tibeto Burman,Hmong Mien,Tai Kadai etc. and was a blanket term for Southern natives.
Most likely the original "Yue" were an Austro Asiatic population and the term was recycled to refer to populations further South, ie Dongyi being applied to ancient Koreans and Japanese when the original Dongyi lived in Shandong and Jiangsu.
They did however share some traits like teeth blackening,stilted houses,long hair,river faring etc
however it is unknown if they ever called themselves "Yue" save for YuYue.
Some reading for those interested.
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp176_history_of_yue.pdf
http://www.ihp.sinica.edu.tw/~asiamajor/pdf/2003a/03 brindley.pdf
4. First off there is no archaeological proof,secondly written sources of the kingdoms appear relatively late after the demise of both of them.
If the Dong Son civilization is considered "Vietnamese" the furthest influence was in Yunnan,Guizhou,Guandong and Guangxi where the bronze drums spread(even so its debated whether there was Chinese influence on the Dong Son culture)
For further reading on the nationalistic interpretations of bronze drums see: Who Invented the Bronze Drum? Nationalism,Politics, and a Sino- Vietnamese Archaeological Debate of the 1970s and 1980s by Xiaorang Han
However assuming the Baiyue in these areas mentioned above identified as one group, the Chinese labeled them as separate entities and is still a far cry from of Southern China.
In the Dai Viet su ky toan thu we see this passage.
雄王之立也,建國號文郎國。(其國東夾南海,西抵巴蜀,北至洞庭湖,南接胡孫國,即占城國,今 廣南是也。)
King Hung named his kingdom Van Lang after he ascended to power.
To the East it touched the Southern Sea,to the West Ba and Shu,to the North Lake Dongting,to the South Hu Sun,which was Champa now known as Guang Nan province.
If Van Lang was that large why didn't the Chinese mention its presence,furthermore it would overlap with several of the warring states and other Baiyue states.
The capital could not have existed either see The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
In reality we see Vietnamese trying to fabricate a past by claiming a legendary "Chinese" sage Shennong as the ancestor of the Hung Kings.
5. In my opinion this is the most ludicrous of these claims on par with Koreans claiming Gojoseon influenced Zhou or that Baekje colonized China.
Some ridiculous claims is that Confucius was influenced by the Baiyue or that Yijing was written by Vietnamese.
There isn't much to say here,name one Sinologist that claims this.
As for Nanyue/Namviet being a Chinese/Vietnamese kingdom I'll answer that question another day.
My suggestion for you nationalistic Vietnamese is to visit Guangdong and tell them they are not Chinese but assimilated Baiyue and should join Vietnam
lol welcome to the forum, to your very first postAfter browsing through this thread and many other similar ones on the internet, the inferiority complex of Vietnamese nationalists is blatantly obvious.
I will list several agendas that Vietnamese nationalists try to propagate.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are genetically separate populations.
2.Southern Han Chinese are sinicized Baiyue/Baipu.
3.All Baiyue are Vietnamese.
4.The kingdoms of Xich Quy and Van Lang existed and they covered Southern China.
5.Chinese owe their achievements to ancient Baiyue people.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are not two separate populations,they have been mixing for generations ie ethnic Han/Hua that fled in times of great turmoil to Southern China).
If SHC and NHC are separate populations why is the proportion of Y-haplogroups similar to each other?
Why is there a genetic cline instead of distinct separate populations?
Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation
Furthermore attaching an ethnicity to a haplogroup is problematic,they formed before the presence of modern day Chinese or Vietnamese.
2.This question is the definition of asinine.
From Wu Taibo and Wu Zhongyong to GouWu,YuYue to Minyue and DongOu,Zhuang Qiao and his soldiers to Dian,Zhao Tuo and Qin era soldiers/convicts in Nanyue these are just some ancient examples you probably already know examples such as the Fall of Western Jin and Northern Song.
There is also genealogical records that Chinese families own though claims of descent from legendary sages or kings should be treated with suspicion.
So how could SHC only compose of natives not migrants?
3. Baiyue are theorized to belong to separate language families such Tibeto Burman,Hmong Mien,Tai Kadai etc. and was a blanket term for Southern natives.
Most likely the original "Yue" were an Austro Asiatic population and the term was recycled to refer to populations further South, ie Dongyi being applied to ancient Koreans and Japanese when the original Dongyi lived in Shandong and Jiangsu.
They did however share some traits like teeth blackening,stilted houses,long hair,river faring etc
however it is unknown if they ever called themselves "Yue" save for YuYue.
Some reading for those interested.
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp176_history_of_yue.pdf
http://www.ihp.sinica.edu.tw/~asiamajor/pdf/2003a/03 brindley.pdf
4. First off there is no archaeological proof,secondly written sources of the kingdoms appear relatively late after the demise of both of them.
If the Dong Son civilization is considered "Vietnamese" the furthest influence was in Yunnan,Guizhou,Guandong and Guangxi where the bronze drums spread(even so its debated whether there was Chinese influence on the Dong Son culture)
For further reading on the nationalistic interpretations of bronze drums see: Who Invented the Bronze Drum? Nationalism,Politics, and a Sino- Vietnamese Archaeological Debate of the 1970s and 1980s by Xiaorang Han
However assuming the Baiyue in these areas mentioned above identified as one group, the Chinese labeled them as separate entities and is still a far cry from of Southern China.
In the Dai Viet su ky toan thu we see this passage.
雄王之立也,建國號文郎國。(其國東夾南海,西抵巴蜀,北至洞庭湖,南接胡孫國,即占城國,今 廣南是也。)
King Hung named his kingdom Van Lang after he ascended to power.
To the East it touched the Southern Sea,to the West Ba and Shu,to the North Lake Dongting,to the South Hu Sun,which was Champa now known as Guang Nan province.
If Van Lang was that large why didn't the Chinese mention its presence,furthermore it would overlap with several of the warring states and other Baiyue states.
The capital could not have existed either see The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
In reality we see Vietnamese trying to fabricate a past by claiming a legendary "Chinese" sage Shennong as the ancestor of the Hung Kings.
5. In my opinion this is the most ludicrous of these claims on par with Koreans claiming Gojoseon influenced Zhou or that Baekje colonized China.
Some ridiculous claims is that Confucius was influenced by the Baiyue or that Yijing was written by Vietnamese.
There isn't much to say here,name one Sinologist that claims this.
As for Nanyue/Namviet being a Chinese/Vietnamese kingdom I'll answer that question another day.
My suggestion for you nationalistic Vietnamese is to visit Guangdong and tell them they are not Chinese but assimilated Baiyue and should join Vietnam
the Annam race could be called as slave mentality and inferioty complexAfter browsing through this thread and many other similar ones on the internet, the inferiority complex of Vietnamese nationalists is blatantly obvious.
I will list several agendas that Vietnamese nationalists try to propagate.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are genetically separate populations.
2.Southern Han Chinese are sinicized Baiyue/Baipu.
3.All Baiyue are Vietnamese.
4.The kingdoms of Xich Quy and Van Lang existed and they covered Southern China.
5.Chinese owe their achievements to ancient Baiyue people.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are not two separate populations,they have been mixing for generations ie ethnic Han/Hua that fled in times of great turmoil to Southern China).
If SHC and NHC are separate populations why is the proportion of Y-haplogroups similar to each other?
Why is there a genetic cline instead of distinct separate populations?
Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation
Furthermore attaching an ethnicity to a haplogroup is problematic,they formed before the presence of modern day Chinese or Vietnamese.
2.This question is the definition of asinine.
From Wu Taibo and Wu Zhongyong to GouWu,YuYue to Minyue and DongOu,Zhuang Qiao and his soldiers to Dian,Zhao Tuo and Qin era soldiers/convicts in Nanyue these are just some ancient examples you probably already know examples such as the Fall of Western Jin and Northern Song.
There is also genealogical records that Chinese families own though claims of descent from legendary sages or kings should be treated with suspicion.
So how could SHC only compose of natives not migrants?
3. Baiyue are theorized to belong to separate language families such Tibeto Burman,Hmong Mien,Tai Kadai etc. and was a blanket term for Southern natives.
Most likely the original "Yue" were an Austro Asiatic population and the term was recycled to refer to populations further South, ie Dongyi being applied to ancient Koreans and Japanese when the original Dongyi lived in Shandong and Jiangsu.
They did however share some traits like teeth blackening,stilted houses,long hair,river faring etc
however it is unknown if they ever called themselves "Yue" save for YuYue.
Some reading for those interested.
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp176_history_of_yue.pdf
http://www.ihp.sinica.edu.tw/~asiamajor/pdf/2003a/03 brindley.pdf
4. First off there is no archaeological proof,secondly written sources of the kingdoms appear relatively late after the demise of both of them.
If the Dong Son civilization is considered "Vietnamese" the furthest influence was in Yunnan,Guizhou,Guandong and Guangxi where the bronze drums spread(even so its debated whether there was Chinese influence on the Dong Son culture)
For further reading on the nationalistic interpretations of bronze drums see: Who Invented the Bronze Drum? Nationalism,Politics, and a Sino- Vietnamese Archaeological Debate of the 1970s and 1980s by Xiaorang Han
However assuming the Baiyue in these areas mentioned above identified as one group, the Chinese labeled them as separate entities and is still a far cry from of Southern China.
In the Dai Viet su ky toan thu we see this passage.
雄王之立也,建國號文郎國。(其國東夾南海,西抵巴蜀,北至洞庭湖,南接胡孫國,即占城國,今 廣南是也。)
King Hung named his kingdom Van Lang after he ascended to power.
To the East it touched the Southern Sea,to the West Ba and Shu,to the North Lake Dongting,to the South Hu Sun,which was Champa now known as Guang Nan province.
If Van Lang was that large why didn't the Chinese mention its presence,furthermore it would overlap with several of the warring states and other Baiyue states.
The capital could not have existed either see The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
In reality we see Vietnamese trying to fabricate a past by claiming a legendary "Chinese" sage Shennong as the ancestor of the Hung Kings.
5. In my opinion this is the most ludicrous of these claims on par with Koreans claiming Gojoseon influenced Zhou or that Baekje colonized China.
Some ridiculous claims is that Confucius was influenced by the Baiyue or that Yijing was written by Vietnamese.
There isn't much to say here,name one Sinologist that claims this.
As for Nanyue/Namviet being a Chinese/Vietnamese kingdom I'll answer that question another day.
My suggestion for you nationalistic Vietnamese is to visit Guangdong and tell them they are not Chinese but assimilated Baiyue and should join Vietnam
First : lots of VNese was Catholic and Christian during French colony's time. They support French against VN emperor, thats why, we were defeated quite easily.People can say: during French colony's time, its a VN civil war between pro-Catholic and nationalist VNEseBoasting how the Viets had defeated the Mongolians are what they do best here, when the French came these supa powa Viets let the French rule them. What happened to the mighty Viets that fought against the aggressive Mongolian Empire? Then the Japs came, the French surrendered and the Viets didn't do much against the Japs.
second: Champa and Khmer also got support from French and they weakened VN's power tooA power struggle then developed between Minh Mạng and pro-Catholic, pro-Western officials who wanted to maintain the power they had been given by Gia Long.[25][26][26][26] Eventually, 2,000 Vietnamese Catholic troops fought under the command of Father Nguyễn Văn Tâm in an attempt to depose Minh Mạng and install a Catholic emperor.[27]
The revolt was put down, and restrictions were placed on Catholicism. Persistent rebellions occurred throughout the Nguyễn Dynasty, many led by Catholic priests intent on installing a Christian monarch. During the French colonial campaign against Vietnam from 1858 to 1883, many Catholics joined with the French in helping to establish colonialism by fighting against the Vietnamese government. Once colonial rule was established the Catholics were rewarded with preferential treatment in government posts, education, and the church was given vast tracts of royal land that had been seized.
After the end of the French rule and Vietnam division in mid-1950s, Catholicism declined in the North, where the communists regarded it as a reactionary force opposed to national liberation and social progress. In the South, by contrast, Catholicism was expanded under the presidency of Ngo Dinh Diem, who promoted it as an important bulwark against North Vietnam. Diem, whose brother was Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc gave extra rights to the Catholic Church, dedicated the nation to the Virgin Mary and preferentially promoted Catholic military officers and public servants while restricting Buddhism and allowing Catholic paramilitaries to demolish temples and pagodas. In 1955 approximately 600,000 Catholics remained in the North after an estimated 650,000 had fled to the South in Operation Passage to Freedom.
Christianity in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
idiot. posting again and again same words. copy and paste.the Annam race could be called as slave mentality and inferioty complex
Nanyue is Tai
what's problem now my Annam friend? your abusive mentality showed maybe something hurting a bit deeper inside, its could be massive inferiority complex ran through the vein of the Annams raceidiot. posting again and again same words. copy and paste.
First : lots of VNese was Catholic and Christian during French colony's time. They support French against VN emperor, thats why, we were defeated quite easily.People can say: during French colony's time, its a VN civil war between pro-Catholic and nationalist VNEse
French could rule VN coz those pro-Catholic VNese begged for their support to take control of VN
second: Champa and Khmer also got support from French and they weakened VN's power too
After browsing through this thread and many other similar ones on the internet, the inferiority complex of Vietnamese nationalists is blatantly obvious.
I will list several agendas that Vietnamese nationalists try to propagate.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are genetically separate populations.
2.Southern Han Chinese are sinicized Baiyue/Baipu.
3.All Baiyue are Vietnamese.
4.The kingdoms of Xich Quy and Van Lang existed and they covered Southern China.
5.Chinese owe their achievements to ancient Baiyue people.
1.Southern Han Chinese and Northern Han Chinese are not two separate populations,they have been mixing for generations ie ethnic Han/Hua that fled in times of great turmoil to Southern China).
If SHC and NHC are separate populations why is the proportion of Y-haplogroups similar to each other?
Why is there a genetic cline instead of distinct separate populations?
Genetic Structure of the Han Chinese Population Revealed by Genome-wide SNP Variation
Furthermore attaching an ethnicity to a haplogroup is problematic,they formed before the presence of modern day Chinese or Vietnamese.
2.This question is the definition of asinine.
From Wu Taibo and Wu Zhongyong to GouWu,YuYue to Minyue and DongOu,Zhuang Qiao and his soldiers to Dian,Zhao Tuo and Qin era soldiers/convicts in Nanyue these are just some ancient examples you probably already know examples such as the Fall of Western Jin and Northern Song.
There is also genealogical records that Chinese families own though claims of descent from legendary sages or kings should be treated with suspicion.
So how could SHC only compose of natives not migrants?
3. Baiyue are theorized to belong to separate language families such Tibeto Burman,Hmong Mien,Tai Kadai etc. and was a blanket term for Southern natives.
Most likely the original "Yue" were an Austro Asiatic population and the term was recycled to refer to populations further South, ie Dongyi being applied to ancient Koreans and Japanese when the original Dongyi lived in Shandong and Jiangsu.
They did however share some traits like teeth blackening,stilted houses,long hair,river faring etc
however it is unknown if they ever called themselves "Yue" save for YuYue.
Some reading for those interested.
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp176_history_of_yue.pdf
http://www.ihp.sinica.edu.tw/~asiamajor/pdf/2003a/03 brindley.pdf
4. First off there is no archaeological proof,secondly written sources of the kingdoms appear relatively late after the demise of both of them.
If the Dong Son civilization is considered "Vietnamese" the furthest influence was in Yunnan,Guizhou,Guandong and Guangxi where the bronze drums spread(even so its debated whether there was Chinese influence on the Dong Son culture)
For further reading on the nationalistic interpretations of bronze drums see: Who Invented the Bronze Drum? Nationalism,Politics, and a Sino- Vietnamese Archaeological Debate of the 1970s and 1980s by Xiaorang Han
However assuming the Baiyue in these areas mentioned above identified as one group, the Chinese labeled them as separate entities and is still a far cry from of Southern China.
In the Dai Viet su ky toan thu we see this passage.
雄王之立也,建國號文郎國。(其國東夾南海,西抵巴蜀,北至洞庭湖,南接胡孫國,即占城國,今 廣南是也。)
King Hung named his kingdom Van Lang after he ascended to power.
To the East it touched the Southern Sea,to the West Ba and Shu,to the North Lake Dongting,to the South Hu Sun,which was Champa now known as Guang Nan province.
If Van Lang was that large why didn't the Chinese mention its presence,furthermore it would overlap with several of the warring states and other Baiyue states.
The capital could not have existed either see The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog
In reality we see Vietnamese trying to fabricate a past by claiming a legendary "Chinese" sage Shennong as the ancestor of the Hung Kings.
5. In my opinion this is the most ludicrous of these claims on par with Koreans claiming Gojoseon influenced Zhou or that Baekje colonized China.
Some ridiculous claims is that Confucius was influenced by the Baiyue or that Yijing was written by Vietnamese.
There isn't much to say here,name one Sinologist that claims this.
As for Nanyue/Namviet being a Chinese/Vietnamese kingdom I'll answer that question another day.
My suggestion for you nationalistic Vietnamese is to visit Guangdong and tell them they are not Chinese but assimilated Baiyue and should join Vietnam