History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

[Wholegrain]

Why is China trying to ban Cantonese language.

Southern Chinese oppose ban on Cantonese TV

Anger Over Anti-Cantonese Moves in China

Cantonese language is not banned, their tv broadcasts got replaced by Mandarin, for the same reason France marginalized and drove Occitan language to near extinction.

Occitan language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Occitan Language

Occitan and French are both Romance languages descended from Latin, but although Occitan is even closer to Latin than French, but France decided to make French the official language since its spoken around the capital of Paris.

Occitan is closer to latin so it was called Langue d'oc while French was influenced by Germanic languages so it was called "Langues d'oïl"

Cantonese is closer phonetically and grammatically to ancient Chinese (middle Chinese) than Mandarin, but Mandarin was chosen as the official language since it is spoken around the capital. Both Cantonese and Mandarin are Sinitic (Chinese) languages and are descended from Middle Chinese and Old Chinese.

Early Child Cantonese: Facts and Implications - Shek Tse, Hui Li - Google Books

The Chinese Language: Its History and Current Usage - Google Books

China - Michael Cannings - Google Books

It explicitly says here Cantonese is the closest to ancient Chinese and that Cantonese are descended from Chinese migration from northern China.

Food in China: A Cultural and Historical Inquiry - Frederick J. Simoons - Google Books

 

Nice article! How about people from Henan Province? It's my hometown. Belong to中原官话区东部父系?

Yes, Henan looks like its on the eastern part of the plains, the western part is Shaanxi and Gansu.

 

[Wholegrain]

Don't lie. kid.

Guangdong population: 104,3 million people, where servey has been made.
40 % Cantonese shared native paternal bloodline = 41.72 million people (no Hans).
Zhuang people 0.7 % X 104.3 = 0.731 million.

Guangdong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zhuang people in Guangxi is 32% X 46 million = 14,72 million only. Note that Guangxi is not included in to servey.

if its any case, Chinese tried lie, look at here: 41.72 million -14, 72 = 23 million.
Which ethnic group is 26 million native Cantonese, kid ?

Guangxi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as human being. Its nothing inferior if you are native Cantonese or mixed people. PLS claim your true identity.

Over 60 million Cantonese have Han paternal lineage, Y chromosome haplogroup Oa3.

40 million Cantonese with native lineage like Haplogroup O1, share the same haplogroup with the Zhuang people, because their ancestors were Zhuang people who gave up their own Tai language, and adopted Cantonese Han language and culture.

Malays has absorbed many ethnic groups, such as Bugis people who adopted Malay language and culture and became Malay people.

You are the liar, I said their ancestors were Zhuang, not that they identify as Zhuang today.

Their ancestors were Zhuang people who adopted Cantonese language and Han culture after millions of Han migrants moved to Guangdong from northern China. They gave up their own Zhuang Tai language and culture.

Over 60 million Cantonese are have Han paternal lineage (O3a) and they were the majority, so they absorbed the Zhuang minority into their culture and language.

The "native male" lineage in Guangdong is O1 and O2a which is shared with Zhuang people. O1 is also an austronesian haplogroup (related to Taiwan aboriginals), who may have lived in southern China before the Han expansion south. O3a is northern Han, which most Cantonese have.

大中华文明圈各地域人们的血统构成，例：大和民族九州岛父系—汉族血统40%... – 【人人分享-人人网】

Y-chromosome genotyping and genetic structu... [Yi Chuan Xue Bao. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

http://www.comonca.org.cn/LH/Doc/A30.PDF

Yi Chuan Xue Bao. 2006 Dec;33(12):1060-72.
Y-chromosome genotyping and genetic structure of Zhuang populations.
Chen J, Li H, Qin ZD, Liu WH, Lin WX, Yin RX, Jin L, Pan SL.
Source
Department of Pathophysiology, Guangxi Medical University, Nanning 530021, China.
Abstract
Zhuang, the largest ethnic minority population in China, is one of the descendant groups of the ancient Bai-Yue. Linguistically, Zhuang languages are grouped into northern and southern dialects. To characterize its genetic structure, 13 East Asian-specific Y-chromosome biallelic markers and 7 Y-chromosome short tandem repeat (STR) markers were used to infer the haplogroups of Zhuang populations. Our results showed that O*, O2a, and O1 are the predominant haplogroups in Zhuang. Frequency distribution and principal component analysis showed that Zhuang was closely related to groups of Bai-Yue origin and therefore was likely to be the descendant of Bai-Yue. The results of principal component analysis and hierarchical clustering analysis contradicted the linguistically derived north-south division. Interestingly, a west-east clinal trend of haplotype frequency changes was observed, which was supported by AMOVA analysis that showed that between-population variance of east-west division was larger than that of north-south division. O* network suggested that the Hongshuihe branch was the center of Zhuang. Our study suggests that there are three major components in Zhuang. The O* and O2a constituted the original component; later, O1 was brought into Zhuang, especially eastern Zhuang; and finally, northern Han population brought O3 into the Zhuang populations.

Tai peoples - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zhuang people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Chinese scholarship continues to place the "Zhuang–Dong languages" among the Sino-Tibetan family, other linguists treat the Tai languages as a separate family. Another family with which they have been linked is the Austronesian languages, which dispersed from Taiwan after a migration from the mainland. However the Austro-Thai hypothesis uniting these families is now supported by few scholars.[11] However genetic evidence also points out Zhuang possesses a very high frequency of Haplogroup O2 with most of them being subclade O2a making it the most dominant marker, a marker which they share with Austro-Asiatic, the other portion of O2 belongs to subclade O2a1. Zhuangs also have prevalent frequencies of O1 which links them with Austronesian, but O1 is at much lower rate compared to O2a and only slightly higher than O2a1. Haplogroup O2 in Taiwan aborigines is almost completely non-existent, but they exhibit very high frequencies of O1. This suggests that after the separation of Tai and Austronesian, Tai-Kadai speakers assimilated mostly Austro-Asiatic people into their population.[12]

Yue Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The area of China south of the Nanling Mountains, known as the Lingnan (roughly modern Guangxi and Guangdong), was originally home to peoples known to the Chinese as the Hundred Yue. Large-scale Chinese migration to the area began after the Qin conquest of the region in 214 BC.[7] Successive waves followed at times of upheaval in North China, such as the falls of the Han, Tang and Song dynasties.[7] The most popular route was via the Xiang River, which the Qin had connected to the Li River by the Lingqu Canal, and thence into the valley of the Xi Jiang (West River).[8] A secondary route followed the Gan River and then the Bei Jiang (North River) into eastern Guangdong.[9] Yue speakers were later joined by Hakka speakers following the North River route, and Min speakers arriving by sea.[10]

After the fall of Qin, the Lingnan area was part of the independent state of Nanyue for about a century, before being incorporated in the Han empire.[9] Following the collapse of the Tang dynasty, much of the Yue area became part of the Southern Han, one of the longest-lived states of the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms, between 917 and 971.[9]

The waves of Chinese migration also assimilated huge numbers of aborigines, with the result that today's Yue-speaking population is descended from both groups.[11] The colloquial layers of Yue dialects have a number of elements influenced by the Tai languages formerly spoken widely in the area and still spoken by people such as the Zhuang.[12]

If the 40 million people adopt Zhuang Baiyue language and culture, they are still outnumbered by over 60 million Cantonese, and Zhuang people already have an autonomous region in Guangxi.

...you forget to mention that there are humans living on Mars, and perhaps Taiwanese and Tai settlers, too. Oh maybe they are muslims

source?
source?
source?

History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

Ethnic Groups of South Asia and the Pacific: An Encyclopedia - James B. Minahan - Google Books

Cantonese has been influenced by Tai and not Vietnamese, the former inhabitants of Guangdong were Tai speakers.

China calls on Japan to respect historical facts

Food in China: A Cultural and Historical Inquiry - Frederick J. Simoons - Google Books

The Power of Words: Literacy and Revolution in South China, 1949-95 - Glen Peterson - Google Books

Modern Cantonese Phonology - Robert S. Bauer, Paul K. Benedict - Google Books

The Languages of China - S. Robert Ramsey - Google Books

Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages - Christopher Moseley - Google Books

These are the sources for the Tran dynasty.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

 

[Rechoice]

now what is your terrorist mentality speaking about


look here my Annam friend, just stop your nonsense claims of any history before 8th century ok, Nanyue have nothing to do with your Annam fiends, you are AA was never settled in the delta during that period, you are late comer from Cuu Chan or something like that, the delta people in Giao Chi are Tai, stop your criminality Annam history thiefs




usually I did not like to agree with people but yes you are the speaking the truth especially about these Yuon crocodiles
here murderous Yuon crimes against humanity
[video]

you troll.

" Jiao Zhi" or 交趾 is word original from Vietnamese words, "kẻ" it mean "People" and "tao" for " I'm". Kinh people were called by Muong people as " Keo" people. Viet - Muong is a sub-group in Mon-Khmer ethic group. It was recorded in Chinese Han Ji as 交趾 or 交阯. It's got a meaning "Location of Keo People". "趾" is a meaning of "foundation or base".

This word 交趾 hoặc 交阯 existed from time of Zhao Tuo and Nan Yue Guo 207 BC.

 

[Viet]

Question: Why do some Ethnic Vietnamese pretend to be white living in the USA?
One prime example is = Gambit.
Also claim he would kill his own kind if a war breaks out between USA and Vietnam.

there is no such thing, a Viet claiming to be a Caucasian. Gambit is no exemption. I don´t believe he says he is white or has white mentality. Gambit is a Southerner. He hates communist and perhaps Northerner, too. But many Southerner dislike Northerner and vice versa. That is nothing spectacular. In the US-VN war, there was no single known event that a father killed his son, just because the father belonged to the other side. I don´t know if Gambit is serious about of what he says.

Vietnam has a sad historical record, where both sides killed each other. One famous example: the civil war between the Nguyen (South) and Trinh (North). Both families fought each other over a century, both claimed to be the real successor of the Le dynasty. The war ended with the victory of the Trinh.

a bit of history:

One of the keys leading to the victory of the Trinh was they were more successful to get weapons and adopted modern technologies from the western countries, especially the Dutch. Plus the Trinh were more assertive. Although the Nguyen got support from the Portuguese and hold the front for a long time, but at the end of day they lost the war as they were weakened by another mighty Viet enemy in the Western front (Tay Son).

Upper:Goa style arquebuses- probably were widespread in Vietnam during the 17th century (wiki)


Trịnh–Nguyễn War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rott]

there is no such thing, a Viet claiming to be a Caucasian. Gambit is no exemption. I don´t believe he says he is white or has white mentality. Gambit is a Southerner. He hates communist and perhaps Northerner, too. But many Southerner dislike Northerner and vice versa. That is nothing spectacular. In the US-VN war, there was no single known event that a father killed his son, just because the father belonged to the other side. I don´t know if Gambit is serious about of what he says.

Vietnam has a sad historical record, where both sides killed each other. One famous example: the civil war between the Nguyen (South) and Trinh (North). Both families fought each other over a century, both claimed to be the real successor of the Le dynasty. The war ended with the victory of the Trinh.

One of the keys leading to the victory of the Trinh was they were more successful to get weapons and adopted modern technologies from the western countries, especially the Dutch. Plus the Trinh were more assertive. Although the Nguyen got support from the Portuguese and hold the front for a long time, but at the end of day they lost the war as they were weakened by another mighty Viet enemy in the Western front (Tay Son).

Upper:Goa style arquebuses- probably were widespread in Vietnam during the 17th century (wiki)


Trịnh–Nguyễn War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Err, I suppose you misunderstood my question.

China and Chinese fought each other too in the civil war. But my question was, would any Viet attack against his own "Native" country while pledging allegiance with another?

 

[Viet]

Err, I suppose you misunderstood my question.

China and Chinese fought each other too in the civil war. But my question was, would any Viet attack against his own "Native" country while pledging allegiance with another?

well, for example there were Viets serving in the French army fighting the Vietminh (first Indochina war).

 

[rott]

well, for example there were Viets serving in the French army fighting the Vietminh (first Indochina war).

I am not trying to be rude here. But just trying to understand something.
Would you?

 

[Viet]

I am not trying to be rude here. But just trying to understand something.
Would you?

be rude and ask your question...be more specific

 

[Viet]

I don't really think that things like eunuch and 華夷之分 are good side of China~
Nah, just admit that Vietnam is a mini China~ Just like how the old Vietnamese called themselves 小中華/中國 lil'China and even 漢 Han~ And lil'China is still a part of evil China~

eunuch was a terrible invention. What is the meaning of 華夷之分?

ha ha ha ...Little China 小中國

The Vietnamese author Nguyen Huy Thiep once writes, "The most significant characteristics of this country (Vietnam) are its smallness and weakness. She is like a virgin girl raped by Chinese civilization. The girl concurrently enjoys, despises and is humiliated by the rape."

 

[EastSea]

Over 60 million Cantonese have Han paternal lineage, Y chromosome haplogroup Oa3.

40 million Cantonese with native lineage like Haplogroup O1, share the same haplogroup with the Zhuang people, because their ancestors were Zhuang people who gave up their own Tai language, and adopted Cantonese Han language and culture.

Malays has absorbed many ethnic groups, such as Bugis people who adopted Malay language and culture and became Malay people.

You are the liar, I said their ancestors were Zhuang, not that they identify as Zhuang today.





History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

Ethnic Groups of South Asia and the Pacific: An Encyclopedia - James B. Minahan - Google Books

Cantonese has been influenced by Tai and not Vietnamese, the former inhabitants of Guangdong were Tai speakers.

China calls on Japan to respect historical facts

Food in China: A Cultural and Historical Inquiry - Frederick J. Simoons - Google Books

The Power of Words: Literacy and Revolution in South China, 1949-95 - Glen Peterson - Google Books

Modern Cantonese Phonology - Robert S. Bauer, Paul K. Benedict - Google Books

The Languages of China - S. Robert Ramsey - Google Books

Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages - Christopher Moseley - Google Books

These are the sources for the Tran dynasty.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Secondary Cities and Urban Networking in the Indian Ocean Realm, C. 1400-1800 - Google Books

I copy and past what you admitted:

"40 million Cantonese with native lineage like Haplogroup O1, share the same haplogroup with the Zhuang people, because their ancestors were Zhuang people who gave up their own Tai language, and adopted Cantonese Han language and culture."

What is evil ancestor worshiping culture in China today ? when 40 % people in Canton and 37% people in Zhe Jiang denied their true ancestors. The rest is mixed.

So why I said that Cantonese is fake Hans, its truth.

 

[Snomannen]

eunuch was a terrible invention. What is the meaning of 華夷之分?

ha ha ha ...Little China 小中國

The Vietnamese author Nguyen Huy Thiep once writes, "The most significant characteristics of this country (Vietnam) are its smallness and weakness. She is like a virgin girl raped by Chinese civilization. The girl concurrently enjoys, despises and is humiliated by the rape."

華夷之分 = Distinguishing the so-called "barbarians and civilized mainlander"

More like a lil' girl ran away from the house called China. In this House everybody sometimes united, sometimes raping each others, sometimes partly united and partly raped other groups. However, no matter how far that lil' girl ran away, people of the house still want to grab her back and rape her.

 

[yue10]

you troll.
" Jiao Zhi" or 交趾 is word original from Vietnamese words, "kẻ" it mean "People" and "tao" for " I'm". Kinh people were called by Muong people as " Keo" people. Viet - Muong is a sub-group in Mon-Khmer ethic group. It was recorded in Chinese Han Ji as 交趾 or 交阯. It's got a meaning "Location of Keo People". "趾" is a meaning of "foundation or base".
This word 交趾 hoặc 交阯 existed from time of Zhao Tuo and Nan Yue Guo 207 BC.

my Annam friend, I think you are mistaken, where this Jiaozhi = "Location of Keo People" come from? if it is the Viet professors then it could not be trusted
if Jiao = ke, tao what is the meaning Jiaozhou 交州? province of Kinh people?

according the Viet Jiaozhi was already existed before Zhao Tuo in the Van Lang

Giao Chỉ was the name of one bộ, an administrative level equivalent to a district, of the former nation Văn Lang during the Hùng Vương era. Its territory included present-day Hà Nội and the land on the right bank of the Red River.

ke is also the word in the Tai meaning people too my Amman friend

White Tai: Ke (adult, for peoples around 25-40 — and for this he cites Georges Minot, “Dictionnaire Tay-blanc Francaise,” BEFEO 40 (1940), 92.) [This is not very convincing because they also have the word kun for person/people (p. 102).]
Red Tai: Po ke (male person) and Me ke (female person) — R. Robert, Notes sur les Tay Deng de Lang Chang, Thanh-hoa, Annam (Hanoi: Impr. d’Extrême-Orient, 1941), 128. I checked this and saw that there is also the term ke mo, “sorcerer” (p. 129).

 

[Viet]

The Germans translate Jiaozhi (交趾 Giao Chỉ) as "Das Land der Barfüssiger" the country of barefoot people.

 

[EastSea]

my Annam friend, I think you are mistaken, where this Jiaozhi = "Location of Keo People" come from? if it is the Viet professors then it could not be trusted
if Jiao = ke, tao what is the meaning Jiaozhou 交州? province of Kinh people?

according the Viet Jiaozhi was already existed before Zhao Tuo in the Van Lang

ke is also the word in the Tai meaning people too my Amman friend

I copy and past the post of Rye (page 39 in this thread)

"The author of this paper opines that the Mon-Khmer-speaking groups originates from southern,especially southwestern China.These groups were closely related with the Pu recorded in ancient Chinese chronicles.It should be emphasized,however,that most of these groups had emigrated into mainland Southeast Asia before the Pu was recorded in Chinese chronicles.Of today's Mon-Khmer-speaking groups only those stretching in northern Mainland Southeast Asia and southwestern China,e.g.the northern sub-groups of Mon-Khmer-speaking groups are the lineal descendants of the Pu mentioned in ancient Chinese chronicles."

http://www.sealang.net/archives/mks/pdf/35:183-187.pdf

and more:

Bộ Giao Chỉ là một cấp hành chính của nhà Tây Hán là lãnh thổ cũ của nước Nam Việt, được đặt chính thức vào năm 106 TCN, gồm 9 quận là Giao Chỉ, Cửu Chân, Nhật Nam (Nhật Nam được thành lập sau khi nhà Tây Hán chiếm được thêm vùng đất phía nam quận Cửu Chân), Đạm Nhĩ, Châu Nhai (Đạm Nhĩ và Châu Nhai nay thuộc đảo Hải Nam), Nam Hải, Hợp Phố, Uất Lâm, Thương Ngô (nay thuộc Quảng Tây và Quảng Đông)[1].

Năm 203 nhà Đông Hán đổi bộ Giao Chỉ thành Giao Châu trên cơ sở đề nghị của thứ sử Trương Tân và Sĩ Nhiếp, thái thú quận Giao Chỉ. Tên gọi của Bộ Giao Chỉ tồn tại được 300 năm (106 TCN - 203).

Giao Chỉ – Wikipedia tiếng Việt

It's stated that Jiao Zhi from 106 BC, of Xi Han Dynasty covered most of territory of North Vietnam and NanYue Guo of Zhao Tuo included: Guangdong, Guangxi and Hainan.

 

[Viet]

華夷之分 = Distinguishing the so-called "barbarians and civilized mainlander"

are mainlanders civilized? not when they travel abroad. It is like when the French occupied Vietnam, they were rude and aggressive. But at home, they were civilized and handsome.

More like a lil' girl ran away from the house called China. In this House everybody sometimes united, sometimes raping each others, sometimes partly united and partly raped other groups. However, no matter how far that lil' girl ran away, people of the house still want to grab her back and rape her.

you are hilarious. Nguyen Huy Thiep wrote in prose, the word "rape" should describe Vietnam´s complicate relationship with China.