Historical Background of Pakistan and its People

[EjazR]

No, I did not mean to contradict what you said. I was referring to some people who misunderstand the name to be associated with Hindus in the religious sense, especially on this forum. Basically being Hindu is a geographic affiliation and not a religious one. I knew that this was a corruption of the term Indus or Sindhu, just not sure who did it - Arabs, Persians or British as you stated.

I did not mean that its antiquity is of any relevance, just to make a point to people that why the term Hindu could have no reference to the religion.

Well the variants are apparently since the time of the early Persian/Aryan contacts. The early Arabs would have used what they would have learned from the Persians. The British obviously learnt the same terminology.

The ting with the British rule was the differentiation between Hindus as a religious group rather than a geographical group. The first census they did was in 1961 using these terms under religious affiliations. Prior to that no one knew the exact religious compositions of different areas.

Infact, many Hindu scholars also prefer to use the word Vedantists or Sanatan Dharmi to describe their faith rather than Hinduism. And Vedas are of course one of the oldest that according to many people fall into the category of revealed books

 

[EjazR]

yeah that also explains why many Hyderabadi Muslim women wear Mangal Sutra.. as they live in the land of the hindus

You are just jealous that you don't get to wear fancy jewelry like that.



But anyways, Hyderabad is quite far from the river Indus which is where Hindustan derives its name from.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

You are just jealous that you don't get to wear fancy jewelry like that.

jealous of what? mangal sutra? I can buy them anytime from Hyderabadi Shops.. but it is more of a hindu symbol.. both sindoor and mangal sutra.. Hindu being the dominant majority of India.. and minorities like Muslims have assimilated well with them.. I would say too well!! Carrying many hindu customs like wearing Mangal Sutra, Sindoor, Bindiya etc

But anyways, Hyderabad is quite far from the river Indus which is where Hindustan derives its name from.

and yet in present day it is You guyz who are called Indians and Hindustanis. (last time I checked Hyderabad is in India and Hindustan.)

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Even if they didn't have Hijab on they still look different from indian girls, trust me i've been to a school where Pakistanis, Afghans, Bengalis, and indians went and it wouldn't take an expert to tell the difference between a Pakistani and an indian!

That is true! No Pakistani girl in his right mind would claim that she is "Indian".. Why would we do that ? And I don't know about you guyz... but as far as Pakistani girlz are concerned .. in 99% cases I can tell the difference between Indian and Pakistani girlz.. It is not just the way they look, it is also the way they carry themselves, and many other cultural cues!! I can even tell the subtle differences between indian and pakistani girlz... Indian girlz wear Pajama type Shalwar.. their Shalwar Kameez is kinda different from our Shalwar Kameez

 

[secularguy]

"Pajama type Shalwar" is called "Churidar" in India.

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan didn't seperate on the basis of religion alone after all India has a larger population of Muslims than Pakistan.

We are very different people. If we were "the same" as some Indians like to say we would not have wanted a seperate country.

I personally have no problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different whatever that is supposed to mean but people cannot be allowed to distort history.

Jinnah was Gujarati, was he not? How does he fit in with your theory?
What about east Pakistan? What about all the "mohajir's". Are they not Pakistani?

Was not the demand for Pakistan based on the premise that it would be a homeland for the Muslims of India? I have heard some Pakistanis claim that since India never existed as an entity, there was no "Batwaara". This is clearly disproved by the actual premise for Pakistan as stated above. How can Pakistan be a homeland for India's Muslims if India did not exist as an entity in people's minds. If religion was the sole factor and geography was not a consideration then why not allow Afghans, Iranians and any other Muslim populace into Pakistan?

You are entitled to call and think of yourselves as being different from Indians if that makes you happy. I have no issue with that whatsoever and moreover being from Bangalore claim no similarity either cultural or linguistic with any Pakistani. In any case, i believe that post 1947, India and Pakistan have moved away rapidly from each other and continue to do so today. However many Pakistanis seem to portray India as being culturally homogeneous which is not the case. There is no one Indian culture that you can be different from or indeed be similar to. We are a mix of many individual cultures retaining their own identities and some can claim similarities with the cultures of all our neighbouring countries, not just with Pakistan.

Yes thats true Urdu is associated with Sansikrit (thats why PERSONALLY i'd rather choose to speak Farci

Of all the reasons to learn Farsi, that's probably the most narrow minded. If you are looking for a language without connections to Sanskrit you would be better off with something else, though i don't know why that should be an issue for liking or disliking a language. Iran shares a strong linguistic and cultural bond with the people of the sub continent and a study of ancient Iranian history and pre Islamic religions will clearly point that out to you.

You seem to have a strong affinity for Farsi and I wish you would appreciate the beauty of the language for what it is and not try and limit its greatness by defining it for what you think it is not.
Thanks

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

hey bang we dont say we are arab or anything.
But we are different then indians ethnically
Yes it was a part of india but mostly the present day Pakistan has its own unique identity coz it was mostly part of greek,iranian,ghaznavid and other empires and so we share little cultural similarities just like our ethnicities.
Jinnah was a rajput and we are proud of him.
And yes there are many people who are of rajput or jatt ancestory and very proud of it but the thing is tht the conversion mostly took place centuries ago hence it shaped our culture and stuff.
If u talk ethnically yes sir india shares no more then3 % ethnic similarities with Pakistanis.
Hope clears ur misconceptions.

 

[Speaker]

yeah that also explains why many Hyderabadi Muslim women wear Mangal Sutra.. as they live in the land of the hindus

I don't know about that, never saw a case in the 3 years I was there. But it is a fact that people of any religion begin assimilating some aspects of the culture of the land they live in. Why go far - look at how Hindus, Muslims and people of other religion behave in the US.

And I am assuming you were sarcastic, but the second part of my post explained why it is that Hindustan is the land of the Hindus.

 

[ADT]

I personally have no problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different whatever that is supposed to mean but people cannot be allowed to distort history.

Jinnah was Gujarati, was he not? How does he fit in with your theory?
What about east Pakistan? What about all the "mohajir's". Are they not Pakistani?

Was not the demand for Pakistan based on the premise that it would be a homeland for the Muslims of India? I have heard some Pakistanis claim that since India never existed as an entity, there was no "Batwaara". This is clearly disproved by the actual premise for Pakistan as stated above. How can Pakistan be a homeland for India's Muslims if India did not exist as an entity in people's minds. If religion was the sole factor and geography was not a consideration then why not allow Afghans, Iranians and any other Muslim populace into Pakistan?

You are entitled to call and think of yourselves as being different from Indians if that makes you happy. I have no issue with that whatsoever and moreover being from Bangalore claim no similarity either cultural or linguistic with any Pakistani. In any case, i believe that post 1947, India and Pakistan have moved away rapidly from each other and continue to do so today. However many Pakistanis seem to portray India as being culturally homogeneous which is not the case. There is no one Indian culture that you can be different from or indeed be similar to. We are a mix of many individual cultures retaining their own identities and some can claim similarities with the cultures of all our neighbouring countries, not just with Pakistan.

Dude get the 89 years of British Raj out of your head and think farther back because that is always the main point of every Indians argument. Its so so silly.

We have an rich history that consists of Pakistanis that have lived in present day Pakistan territory. Mind you not in the India territory.

Indian Muslims are Indian they are not Pakistani.

 

[Desert Fox]

Dude get the 89 years of British Raj out of your head and think farther back because that is always the main point of every Indians argument. Its so so silly.

We have an rich history that consists of Pakistanis that have lived in present day Pakistan territory. Mind you not in the India territory.

Indian Muslims are Indian they are not Pakistani.

you sounded kind of harsh, but you spoke the truth!

 

[Desert Fox]

Cmon Mr.Ninja...why the sour puss?

Praise is due where required.....is there nothing about India that you admire?...Surely the Taj Mahal at least?

If Indians can see beauty in Pakistan, why cant you reciprocate?

Well, its a Pashtun thing, we never forgive our enemies, and neither do we forget them!

Since i'm a Pashtun i will live up to the promise!

 

[Jade]

Dude get the 89 years of British Raj out of your head and think farther back because that is always the main point of every Indians argument. Its so so silly.

We have an rich history that consists of Pakistanis that have lived in present day Pakistan territory. Mind you not in the India territory.

Indian Muslims are Indian they are not Pakistani.

We got 89 years of British Raj out of our head…then what. I don’t think it is a good idea to distort the history for ones convenience. If the Pakistan was not there before 1947, then where is the question of Pakistanis?

As Bang Galore said, at least I don’t have any problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different in whatever way Pakistanis think they are different. After all everybody is entitled to their own opinion

 

[Jade]

Well, its a Pashtun thing, we never forgive our enemies, and neither do we forget them!

Since i'm a Pashtun i will live up to the promise!

We give a damn “whether you never forgive your enemies or neither do you forget them”.

 

[ADT]

We got 89 years of British Raj out of our head…then what. I don’t think it is a good idea to distort the history for ones convenience. If the Pakistan was not there before 1947, then where is the question of Pakistanis?

As Bang Galore said, at least I don’t have any problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different in whatever way Pakistanis think they are different. After all everybody is entitled to their own opinion

Clever remark buddy, but still try to accept that fact you are not like us genetically or otherwise. Its been proven. You people lack R1A genetic markers.

Going into more detail Indians can't be compared to Pakistanis, maybe minutely but as you are implying with your Indian propganda and whatever else you learned in India.

Saying so is utterly stupid, try to convince the Americans they have British roots.


Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan

 

[Jade]

Clever remark buddy, but still try to accept that fact you are not like us genetically or otherwise. Its been proven. You people lack R1A genetic markers.

Going into more detail Indians can't be compared to Pakistanis, maybe minutely but as you are implying with your Indian propganda and whatever else you learned in India.

Saying so is utterly stupid, try to convince the Americans they have British roots.


Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan

As posted in previous post, I don’t have any problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different whether genetically or in whatever way Pakistanis think they are different. However, it is a not a good idea to distort the history for ones convenience.