Historical Background of Pakistan and its People

[ADT]

As posted in previous post, I don’t have any problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different whether genetically or in whatever way Pakistanis think they are different. However, it is a not a good idea to distort the history for ones convenience.

No, no dude you people distort history for your own convenience and greatly exaggerate it with no independent proof (non-indian). Bye bye.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

When I was a kid I was told that by a friend Pakistanis came from Afghanistan and were in effect in occupation of Indian land. Historically that is not true. But if I was to be a brainwashed kid who could be sold anything, I would today be under that mistaken apprehension. It is so easy to distort history and to mislead the ignorant minds of people.

 

[Speaker]

Its been proven. You people lack R1A genetic markers.

The link you provided proves that you have these markers but does not prove Indians do not. I know people don't consider Wikipedia as reliable, but I did a quick check and the argument doesn't seem to be valid. I was kind of intrigued since I had never heard of any theory linking genetic identity to nationality. It may have been partly true in the days of Kings and Kingdoms, but it is almost impossible now. More so between India and Pakistan which has seen migrations across the border in millions.

Saying so is utterly stupid, try to convince the Americans they have British roots.

Again, nations are not linked to races, least of all the USA. I don't know which part of America you live in, but all Americans I have met take pride in their country of origin. If they have British blood in them, they are pretty happy about it, and some of them even maintain links with families they seem to have traced back. They acknowledge that the founding fathers had "British" blood, but that is different from saying they are British. No one is saying Pakistanis are Indian as a nationality (that statement sounded stupid when I ran it in my head!), but more in terms of genetic linkage.

 

[democracyspeaks]

The interesting thing about India is it does actually refer to more than just a sovereign country as of today. Its equivalent is Europe where the Europe consists of different races but are united in the their unique European culture and history where they have borrowed from each other extensively as well as good dollops of foreign influence in terms of knowledge and culture for example by the Arabs and Turks.

What is ironic is that probably present day Pakistan is more deserving to be called India than say other parts like the South or NE which are no where near the river Indus. The word is corruption the British used originating from the river Indus and the term used then Hindiya/Al-Hind by the Arab explorers. The Persians referred to anyone living around that region as Hindus/Hindis. So did the Arabs. Now please note that Hindus was a religion neutral term, it was strictly associated with geographical terms of people living east of the river Sindhu/Indus. Similarly the Arabs referred these people as Hindis regardless of whether they followed Islam, Buddhism e.t.c

It was only under the British rule that Hindus became associated with a religious term. I remember some lecture in which Zakir Naik himself that as long as the term Hindu is taken as the geographical context, then "I am a Hindu".

Of course the communal affects of the British rule and the partition later on have created such an affect that Hindu has been reduced to a religious term. I guess people in Balochistan or other areas of Pakistan that are far away from the Indus valley could be ambiguous, but the Punjab and Sindh that cradle the Indus river would ironically be definitely have been referred to as Hindu/Hindi regardless of WHO ruled over them. Just as for example when the Arabs ruled of the Persians, they automatically didn't become Arabs.


Here is an interesting read on this:
The Meaning and Origin of the word Hindu

@EjazR -> my link says a bit different about the origin of word hindu, plz go through it.

Untitled Document

 

[ADT]

The link you provided proves that you have these markers but does not prove Indians do not. I know people don't consider Wikipedia as reliable, but I did a quick check and the argument doesn't seem to be valid. I was kind of intrigued since I had never heard of any theory linking genetic identity to nationality. It may have been partly true in the days of Kings and Kingdoms, but it is almost impossible now. More so between India and Pakistan which has seen migrations across the border in millions.



Again, nations are not linked to races, least of all the USA. I don't know which part of America you live in, but all Americans I have met take pride in their country of origin. If they have British blood in them, they are pretty happy about it, and some of them even maintain links with families they seem to have traced back. They acknowledge that the founding fathers had "British" blood, but that is different from saying they are British. No one is saying Pakistanis are Indian as a nationality (that statement sounded stupid when I ran it in my head!), but more in terms of genetic linkage.

There is another article couple pages back in this forum and on another thread that says something about the limited genetic linkage.

But really you people extrapolate too much on such a short history of being under combined rule. Thats what really irritates me, and what really irritates me is you people are the first ones to keep bringing up this propganda of distorted on-sided history. No Indian I've met in real life has ever said stupid **** like this to me even when we talk about past history or politics.

But its safe to say this on the internet, but in real life things will get unfriendly fast.

 

[Desert Fox]

We give a damn “whether you never forgive your enemies or neither do you forget them”.

I was replying to your buddy Fateh so yeah in a way you do give a damn

 

[UnitedPak]

We got 89 years of British Raj out of our head…then what. I don’t think it is a good idea to distort the history for ones convenience. If the Pakistan was not there before 1947, then where is the question of Pakistanis?

As Bang Galore said, at least I don’t have any problem in accepting that Pakistanis are different in whatever way Pakistanis think they are different. After all everybody is entitled to their own opinion

Pakistan is defined by the people of Pakistan, who have existed long before 1947. i.e Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis, Kashmiris etc. The culture and history of these people are part of Pakistan regardless of the political definitions you are obsessing about.
If you want to play the political game, then India came into existence after Pakistan...etc etc

 

[KeenGuy]

Pakistan needs to build a wall on Pakistani and Indian broder like the Berlin wall. Then we will get rid of this problem for once and for all.

 

[KeenGuy]

We give a damn “whether you never forgive your enemies or neither do you forget them”.

you will when pakistan kicks your door down.

 

[Speaker]

There is another article couple pages back in this forum and on another thread that says something about the limited genetic linkage.

Sure, this sentence makes more sense as opposed to your previous assertion of no linkage. All I am saying is there is nothing "genetic" about nationality, barring maybe closed or genocidal societies.

But really you people extrapolate too much on such a short history of being under combined rule. Thats what really irritates me, and what really irritates me is you people are the first ones to keep bringing up this propganda of distorted on-sided history. No Indian I've met in real life has ever said stupid **** like this to me even when we talk about past history or politics.
But its safe to say this on the internet, but in real life things will get unfriendly fast.

I don't know why this would be propaganda of any kind. Pakistan is not a genetic concept, it was born due to religious and political differences with India. I know of Muslims who migrated from Madras to Karachi and I am sure they are not genetically the same as you. And there are many Indians who are closer genetically/racially to Pakistanis than they are with other Indians itself. I always assumed this is general knowledge but your genetic theory was interesting to read.

 

[Jade]

Pakistan is defined by the people of Pakistan, who have existed long before 1947. i.e Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis, Kashmiris etc. The culture and history of these people are part of Pakistan regardless of the political definitions you are obsessing about.
If you want to play the political game, then India came into existence after Pakistan...etc etc

I think you seem to forget Bengalis in the long list of people you mentioned who existed in those areas of pre 1947 India which was called pre 1971 Pakistan.

Pakistan’s existence came into being not because of different culture and history of the people residing there before 1947, but because of ideological divide between the Muslims and the Hindus of pre 1947 India. At least that was Jinnah’s reason.

Please refer to the links below for further information

The Partition of India
Story of Pakistan: Timeline Prehistoric-1205
Pakistan: History, Geography, Government, and Culture — Infoplease.com
History of Pakistan

 

[Bang Galore]

Pakistan needs to build a wall on Pakistani and Indian broder like the Berlin wall. Then we will get rid of this problem for once and for all.

Great! The sooner the better ! You won't get any complaints from us. Come to think of it, we may even help with the funding.

you will when pakistan kicks your door down.

Make up your mind. Do you want to build a wall or kick the door in ?

 

[Jade]

you will when pakistan kicks your door down.

We give a damn even if Pakistan kicks our door down. We know the result.

 

[KeenGuy]

every thread i go you indians are trying to prove your history to us. you don't need to, we know its all lies and you are wasting your time.

 

[KeenGuy]

We give a damn even if Pakistan kicks our door down. We know the result.

oh right, got it....india does this