Hindu Genocides in Indian Punjab - Mass Murders of Sikhs Continue

[JattPanjabi]

OMG, there are folks like you too, demanding 'Punjabistan' or are you one-of-a-kind?


Still vague answer!
What do you mean by Punjab, since erstwhile Punjab now falls in two separate countries, please clarify whether you want both or not.....


I think, You have insufficient and/or inaccurate knowledge about the history of the Indian subcontinent and hence about the history of your own forefathers.
The partition of India was on the basis of Muslims vs other religions NOT Hindus vs other religions, so, when Punjab was partitioned Muslims in west Punjab were killing both Hindus and Sikhs, as a result, in east Punjab, Muslims were the target, Hindus and Sikhs were not fighting. If the political leadership joined India against the opinion of the common Sikhs to remain in Pakistan, then the situation would have been just the opposite, Sikhs would be fighting with Hindus in east Punjab and migrating to west Punjab.


How come kashmir is your fight? moreover, since the Kashmir movement includes Jammu, how can you support the movement when you too have demand over Jammu for your 'independent state'? it's counterproductive!
Do you guys even think before taking up animosity.....or is it just that you are brainwashed like the separatists usually are.

I've met a few like minded people, both from Indian and Pakistani side. Politically, there is no Punjabistan movement but I believe that is where Khalistan would have ended up because of the inherent tolerance and respectfulness of others in the Sikh religion if Congress had not decided to go after it with a scorched earth policy.

I think I did answer your question, you didn't read it completely. IDEALLY I'd like an independent Punjab - Punjab means the land of five rivers from both Pakistani and Indian side. However, Pakistani brothers have evolved a different culture but are still closer to Punjabis that say South Indians. Hence I'd settle for an independent state comprising those parts of India which I mentioned and have open borders/close cooperation with Pakistan because we Punjabis don't have any issue with Pakistan (main bone of contention between two countries is Kashmir which has its grounds in territorial expansion)

History of subcontinent: I am aware of the history and that Pakistan was supposed to be a majority Muslim state. The Muslim league kept asking Sikhs to join Pakistan and in the end the leaders went with India because of semi autonomy guaranteed to them by Nehru which he later regressed upon. Nehru's promises were part of the reason that Sikhs were hoodwinked into joining India.

You asked me why most Sikhs don't support Balochistan and I answered that they don't know anything about it. I can't speak for all Sikhs, you can try educating them about Balochistan and seeing if they want to support it. I myself have read about it and seems like separatism there is limited to a few tribals and people overwhelmingly want to stay in Pakistan.

I tried my best to answer your question, hope you don't find it vague still - if you do please feel free to reply.

 

[raj76]

I've met a few like minded people, both from Indian and Pakistani side. Politically, there is no Punjabistan movement but I believe that is where Khalistan would have ended up because of the inherent tolerance and respectfulness of others in the Sikh religion if Congress had not decided to go after it with a scorched earth policy.

I think I did answer your question, you didn't read it completely. IDEALLY I'd like an independent Punjab - Punjab means the land of five rivers from both Pakistani and Indian side. However, Pakistani brothers have evolved a different culture but are still closer to Punjabis that say South Indians. Hence I'd settle for an independent state comprising those parts of India which I mentioned and have open borders/close cooperation with Pakistan because we Punjabis don't have any issue with Pakistan (main bone of contention between two countries is Kashmir which has its grounds in territorial expansion)

History of subcontinent: I am aware of the history and that Pakistan was supposed to be a majority Muslim state. The Muslim league kept asking Sikhs to join Pakistan and in the end the leaders went with India because of semi autonomy guaranteed to them by Nehru which he later regressed upon. Nehru's promises were part of the reason that Sikhs were hoodwinked into joining India.

You asked me why most Sikhs don't support Balochistan and I answered that they don't know anything about it. I can't speak for all Sikhs, you can try educating them about Balochistan and seeing if they want to support it. I myself have read about it and seems like separatism there is limited to a few tribals and people overwhelmingly want to stay in Pakistan.
I tried my best to answer your question, hope you don't find it vague still - if you do please feel free to reply.

its u r personal opinion, would have been possible before partition but now its not feasible with the current size of punjab. i dont know how much u lived in punjab to know about it but as far as i know punjab has the least %entage of muslim population and there is a reason for that.

 

[Asian.Century]

The indian state turned the Sikhs lands into bread basket for india... that is the role of Sikhs now. And of course the indian empire's armed forces.

Look at LT gen Dalbir Singh Indian DGMO lying under the pressure of Modi Hindu extremist sarkar.


The sad truth is that Sikhs have been and still are betrayed by their own people..Sikhs have been killed, spied by Hindu Indian forces..... the corruption runs too deep by these collaborators of the indian empire...

Yet when you scratch the surface you will see simmering anger and deep sense of shame among the Sikhs. Once mighty people are now just reduced to being a colony and a vassal to serve the indian hindus.

Pak people have bond of culture, heritage and blood with Sikhs...Punjabi bondage....they are like brothers to Pak peoples...

Please, remember Sikhs unlike indians have a deep sense of honour just like Pak cultural ethos....

It is the Pak civil society and social, electronic media who bears responsibility to show solidarity with your brethren... at grass root level. You MUST raise their flags as your own.


Pak people must show Virtue and show solidarity with their Sikhs brethren and let them know that they share their pain and shame of being in bondage of illegal and oppressive indian hindu empire.

 

[Joe Shearer]

"Indian occupied Punjab"



How about you first address the fact that your every minorities is fleeing the holy state of Pakistan and are targeted at every turn before you even think about criticising India.

I have no idea what parallel reality you live in but You guys are getting more and more desperate, take it from a Punjabi Sikh.


@Joe Shearer @Levina @Star Wars @ranjeet @Echo_419

What is this hilarious thread that you have dragged me into?

My suggestion to other Indians reading this is, first, stop reading it; there is nothing of either military or social value, just a cheapjack attempt to foment trouble without a basis. Some pocket strategic genius has decided that it would be a GOOD IDEA to align sikhs with Kashmiri Muslims. What a thrilling idea! Then they will get together and DRIVE the Indian Army out of the north and WELCOME - who? oh, I get it now - the TAJIK army into north India with open arms.

Dear Heavens above.

Just leave it alone. This sort of thread is like potato chips and a fizzy drink, a Coke; tasty, offers instant gratification, but no nourishment, nothing useful, just extra calories.

Second, don't bandy words with people. If they want to write and post rubbish, let them. Why get into the gutter? Either participate in good threads, that have a decent military theme, or something socially relevant, or stay off line.

Third, identify those who have balance, and are not teenagers with an Internet point to prove. Engaging with teen terrors is the most pointless waste of time after watching paint dry.

Fourth, it is embarrassing when an Indian member starts using bad language. It embarrasses all others, of similar views, of dissimilar views, of no views, enormously.

And I don't think this thread has any value. Whatsoever. Identify the OP and make a note to ignore him in future.

 

[JattPanjabi]

What is this hilarious thread that you have dragged me into?

My suggestion to other Indians reading this is, first, stop reading it; there is nothing of either military or social value, just a cheapjack attempt to foment trouble without a basis. Some pocket strategic genius has decided that it would be a GOOD IDEA to align sikhs with Kashmiri Muslims. What a thrilling idea! Then they will get together and DRIVE the Indian Army out of the north and WELCOME - who? oh, I get it now - the TAJIK army into north India with open arms.

Dear Heavens above.

Just leave it alone. This sort of thread is like potato chips and a fizzy drink, a Coke; tasty, offers instant gratification, but no nourishment, nothing useful, just extra calories.

Second, don't bandy words with people. If they want to write and post rubbish, let them. Why get into the gutter? Either participate in good threads, that have a decent military theme, or something socially relevant, or stay off line.

Third, identify those who have balance, and are not teenagers with an Internet point to prove. Engaging with teen terrors is the most pointless waste of time after watching paint dry.

Fourth, it is embarrassing when an Indian member starts using bad language. It embarrasses all others, of similar views, of dissimilar views, of no views, enormously.

And I don't think this thread has any value. Whatsoever. Identify the OP and make a note to ignore him in future.

I hope you're not talking about me, I've made an effort to engage you in serious discussion although we got off to a very bad start but I've only been met with ridicule and cheap personal attacks.

its u r personal opinion, would have been possible before partition but now its not feasible with the current size of punjab. i dont know how much u lived in punjab to know about it but as far as i know punjab has the least %entage of muslim population and there is a reason for that.

I disagree, hopefully we'll both be alive 50 years from now so I can laugh at your face and say "I told you so"

 

[JAGGA-J]

I've met a few like minded people, both from Indian and Pakistani side. Politically, there is no Punjabistan movement but I believe that is where Khalistan would have ended up because of the inherent tolerance and respectfulness of others in the Sikh religion if Congress had not decided to go after it with a scorched earth policy.

I think I did answer your question, you didn't read it completely. IDEALLY I'd like an independent Punjab - Punjab means the land of five rivers from both Pakistani and Indian side. However, Pakistani brothers have evolved a different culture but are still closer to Punjabis that say South Indians. Hence I'd settle for an independent state comprising those parts of India which I mentioned and have open borders/close cooperation with Pakistan because we Punjabis don't have any issue with Pakistan (main bone of contention between two countries is Kashmir which has its grounds in territorial expansion)

History of subcontinent: I am aware of the history and that Pakistan was supposed to be a majority Muslim state. The Muslim league kept asking Sikhs to join Pakistan and in the end the leaders went with India because of semi autonomy guaranteed to them by Nehru which he later regressed upon. Nehru's promises were part of the reason that Sikhs were hoodwinked into joining India.

You asked me why most Sikhs don't support Balochistan and I answered that they don't know anything about it. I can't speak for all Sikhs, you can try educating them about Balochistan and seeing if they want to support it. I myself have read about it and seems like separatism there is limited to a few tribals and people overwhelmingly want to stay in Pakistan.

I tried my best to answer your question, hope you don't find it vague still - if you do please feel free to reply.

Brother, indeed it was a mistake for the Sikhs to remain with India and time has proven so. Punjabi culture/heritage is the same on both sides of the fence and we belong together in Pakistan where the Sikhs are respected and Baba Nanak considered a Holy Saint who taught oneness of God & wore Quranic verses.

A day will come and perhaps after much bloodshed that Punjab will be one including all of Kashmir together in Pakistan.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Hence I'd settle for an independent state comprising those parts of India which I mentioned and have open borders/close cooperation with Pakistan because we Punjabis don't have any issue with Pakistan (main bone of contention between two countries is Kashmir which has its grounds in territorial expansion)

I understood that you want open border with Pakistan and I just wanted to know what the extent of that border would be.....from the Indian side it is clear, from Pakistani side it is not clear.......you're just going in circles.

You asked me why most Sikhs don't support Balochistan and I answered that they don't know anything about it. I can't speak for all Sikhs, you can try educating them about Balochistan and seeing if they want to support it. I myself have read about it and seems like separatism there is limited to a few tribals and people overwhelmingly want to stay in Pakistan.

I think you're deliberately trying to evade my question, I didn't ask about Baluchistan in my last question, I asked about Kashmir movement and Jammu, anyway, I expected complete disregard for the Baloch freedom movement from Pakistani Punjabis like you because ethnic Baloch people hate Punjabis, infact, all ethnic groups of Pakistan hate each other.

 

[JattPanjabi]

I understood that you want open border with Pakistan and I just wanted to know what the extent of that border would be.....from the Indian side it is clear, from Pakistani side it is not clear.......you're just going in circles.


I think you're deliberately trying to evade my question, I didn't ask about Baluchistan in my last question, I asked about Kashmir movement and Jammu, anyway, I expected complete disregard for the Baloch freedom movement from Pakistani Punjabis like you because ethnic Baloch people hate Punjabis, infact, all ethnic groups of Pakistan hate each other.

What the actual fudge yaar.. How much more explicit can I be? It's like you are not a person but a brick wall.. The borders end where they are right NOW (2016) Pakistan keeps all their territory so in Punjab Attari, Wagha etc would be the border of the state. Is that clear or still going around in circles?

I'm not evading any question. You're the third person whose called me Pakistani on this forum and I'm sick of it. I've quoted facts about the politics in Punjab that only an Indian would know unless the Pakistani was a VERY dedicated troll. I doubt a Pakistani guy cares about India that much to troll. How can I support the Balochi freedom movement when I have never met a Balochi in my life and have ZERO idea about their culture, politics etc? Why do Sikhs support Kashmir? It's the same reason that a lot of Kashmiris support Sikhs I guess. They probably think that if one gets a free state, the other struggle is helped as well. Along with a mutual respect for each other being oppressed by the government at some time or the other.

Brother, indeed it was a mistake for the Sikhs to remain with India and time has proven so. Punjabi culture/heritage is the same on both sides of the fence and we belong together in Pakistan where the Sikhs are respected and Baba Nanak considered a Holy Saint who taught oneness of God & wore Quranic verses.

A day will come and perhaps after much bloodshed that Punjab will be one including all of Kashmir together in Pakistan.

Thanks brother, I've never met a Pakistani Punjabi who I've not gotten along with and everybody seems to respect my religion. My interactions with people on this forum have further reinforced my view.

 

[Abingdonboy]

we belong together in Pakistan where the Sikhs are respected.

Don't insult our inteligence, Sikhs (and all of Pakistan's minorities) have been systamatically targetted and driven out of Pakistan to the extent that they represent but a a fraction of a percent of Pakistan's population today, meanwhile all religions thrive in India.

Do you think we have fogotten:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/02/24/pakistan.sikhs.beheaded/

and a few months ago this:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/wo...-claim-killing-of-sikh-politician/226522.html

Whatever issues Indian Sikhs/Punjabis/Dalits/Muslims/Christians/Jains/Jews/Tribals etc etc feel they have can be worked out within the imperfect (but reforming) Indian system. In Pakistan there is no such avenue, the state of Pakistan is fundamentally opposed to them.

I don't know why there is all this false "brotherhood" for Sikhs being expressed by Pakistanis, just the other day they killed a (Sikh) BSF constable in their cross border firing, their terrorists killed Sikh members of the security forces in the Pathankot attack earlier in the year and the terrorist attack in Gurdaspur last year specifically targeted a Sikh majority state.


My favourite quote form that last incident:

https://twitter.com/x/status/625650652027359236

Save this faux solidarity for your own minorities (the few of them that are left) we don't want or need it.

 

[HAIDER]

Yeah send it to the sardarji, he will show it to the respective ppl ............

When i see the picture....really makes me sad ...how Indian govt dishonored a soldier in public. Push him to lie in public . look at his face...a clueless duo...

 

[JattPanjabi]

Don't insult our inteligence, Sikhs (and all of Pakistan's minorities) have been systamatically targetted and driven out of Pakistan to the extent that they represent but a a fraction of a percent of Pakistan's population today, meanwhile all religions thrive in India.

Do you think we have fogotten:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/02/24/pakistan.sikhs.beheaded/

and a few months ago this:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/wo...-claim-killing-of-sikh-politician/226522.html

Whatever issues Indian Sikhs/Punjabis/Dalits/Muslims/Christians/Jains/Jews/Tribals etc etc feel they have can be worked out within the imperfect (but reforming) Indian system. In Pakistan there is no such avenue, the state of Pakistan is fundamentally opposed to them.

I don't know why there is all this false "brotherhood" for Sikhs being expressed by Pakistanis, just the other day they killed a (Sikh) BSF constable in their cross border firing, their terrorists killed Sikh members of the security forces in the Pathankot attack earlier in the year and the terrorist attack in Gurdaspur last year specifically targeted a Sikh majority state.


My favourite quote form that last incident:

https://twitter.com/x/status/625650652027359236

Save this faux solidarity for your own minorities (the few of them that are left) we don't want or need it.

Both incidents you mentioned were by the Pakistani Taliban in NWFP, not in Punjab. Pakistani brothers can confirm but I believe there is a large Sikh community in Nankana Sahib. The BSF firing incident is funny, he joined the Army what should the Pakistani rangers have done? Ignored him because he is Sikh, let's find a Hindu to shoot? Gurdaspur attack was political, not targeting any religion.

 

[oFFbEAT]

What the actual fudge yaar.. How much more explicit can I be? It's like you are not a person but a brick wall.. The borders end where they are right NOW (2016) Pakistan keeps all their territory so in Punjab Attari, Wagha etc would be the border of the state. Is that clear or still going around in circles?.

So you want only Indian states for your 'Punjabistan'.....and you're wondering why we think you're Pakistani Punjabi, anyway, as you said, it's an idea, so no harm in that....

I'm not evading any question. You're the third person whose called me Pakistani on this forum and I'm sick of it. I've quoted facts about the politics in Punjab that only an Indian would know unless the Pakistani was a VERY dedicated troll. I doubt a Pakistani guy cares about India that much to troll. How can I support the Balochi freedom movement when I have never met a Balochi in my life and have ZERO idea about their culture, politics etc? Why do Sikhs support Kashmir? It's the same reason that a lot of Kashmiris support Sikhs I guess. They probably think that if one gets a free state, the other struggle is helped as well. Along with a mutual respect for each other being oppressed by the government at some time or the other.

What's the problem if someone calls you a Pakistani Punjabi, you're a Punjabi and you love your Pakistani brothers so much, they're so much supportive of your cause (provided that you don't demand their Punjab), they respect your religion so much (you can forget about the killings during partition), you should feel good that people are not relating you to Indians.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Thanks brother, I've never met a Pakistani Punjabi who I've not gotten along with and everybody seems to respect my religion. My interactions with people on this forum have further reinforced my view.

It's a shame their compatriots at home dont' share these views then.

The facts are thus, in the 60 something years since independance the % of minorities (including Sikhs obviously) in Pakistan has plummeted from 20 or so percent to less than 1% and in the Islamic state of Pakistan only specific sects of Islam are allowed to hold certain positions, minorities have no chance. Whilst on the other hand the minorities in India have grown exponetially and there have been Indians from minority backgrounds in every single conceivable position but sure, the Indian state is waging war on Sikhs.

There simply is no comparison, it is beyond a joke that you could seriously try and make out that Sikhs would be better treated by Pakistanis. Sikhs are thriving in their homeland, if for whatever reason you don't want to accept that so be it but do not insult the inteligence of the members here or the Sikh community that has been hounded out of Pakistan by pretending they are flourshing there.

Pakistani brothers can confirm but I believe there is a large Sikh community in Nankana Sahib.

Define "large" and what was the population 60 years ago?

Gurdaspur attack was political, not targeting any religion.

Semantics, they hit an overtly Sikh target/location, where was this false brotherhood between Pakistanis and Sikhs then?

The borders end where they are right NOW (2016) Pakistan keeps all their territory so in Punjab Attari, Wagha etc would be the border of the state. Is that clear or still going around in circles?

What kind of Punjabistan is this? Pakistan keeps their territory (incidentally they have a far larger share of Punjab) but India concedes all of its Punjab territory?

This is a new level of twisted logic at the beheast of Pakistanis.

Pakistanis are all for Khalistan in principle until they realise this is would be proposed geography:

We would at least want Lahore back

 

[JattPanjabi]

What's the problem if someone calls you a Pakistani Punjabi, you're a Punjabi and you love your Pakistani brothers so much, they're so much supportive of your cause (provided that you don't demand their Punjab), they respect your religion so much (you can forget the killings during partition) you should feel good that people are not relating you to Indians.

The problem is that by calling me Pakistani, you're also implying that my views are lies because "Of course a Pakistani would want to break up India. No India would actually want that"..

It's a shame their compatriots at home dont' share these views then.

The facts are thus, in the 60 something years since independance the % of minorities (including Sikhs obviously) in Pakistan has plummeted from 20 or so percent to less than 1% and in the Islamic state of Pakistan only specific sects of Islam are allowed to hold certain positions, minorities have no chance. Whilst on the other hand the minorities in India have grown exponetially and there have been Indians from minority backgrounds in every single conceivable position but sure, the Indian state is waging war on Sikhs.

Obviously, Sikhs migrated over to India there was rioting.. 1947 was a black mark on our shared history

Semantics, they hit an overtly Sikh target/location, where was this false brotherhood between Pakistanis and Sikhs then?

I'm not going to justify what they did, they were terrorists. Same way I'm not going to justify the Khalistanis who pulled people out of buses and shot them because they were Hindu. Terrorists are effed up in the head.

What kind of Punjabistan is this? Pakistan keeps their territory (incidentally they have a far larger share of Punjab) but India concedes all of its Punjab territory?

This is a new level of twisted logic at the beheast of Pakistanis.

Pakistanis are all for Khalistan in principle until they realise this is would be proposed geography:

We would at least want Lahore back

Pakistani is already Punjabistan albeit an Islamic Punjabistan in my view, the problem is on the Indian side where an amalgamation of people live together though they have different culture and traditions and the government doesn't scale to the size of the population. If Azaad Punjab and Pakistan had open borders, people could freely go back and forth between the two, why would one covet each other's territory? India and Pakistan used to be like that till Kashmir became a problem.

 

[Sher-e-India]

Yaar ye to poora lol thread ho gaya lol