Hillary Clinton uses Perth visit to urge Australian-Indian naval exercises

[xdrive]

I really doubt that figure. Any source to confirm that??

Procurement programme of the Royal Australian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Defending Australia in the Asia Pacific Century: Force 2030 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Believe it

Well, i did say the RAN is a capable force(Think the word i use is professional) but should not be called a strong force, because it ain matter how professional your forces are, you can't do much when you do not have a decent quantity of ship.

I am not saying because Australia is the same size than the USA, we should have the same number of ship and we should not be depending on the ANZUS too much. The thing is, we need more airwarfare destroyer to compensate our large patrol section of the Australian Air Space. The ship we have ordered are needed now, we actually can't wait until 2030 to get them all.

New Procurement detail as follow

12 new submarines

Collins class submarine replacement project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Project enter service in 2025

2 new helicopter/aircraft/amphibious carries

Canberra class landing helicopter dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2 Canberra class LHD (LHD-01 Adelaide and LHD-02 Canberra) Enter service between 2015-2017

4 new air warfare destroyers

Hobart class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
4 Hobart Class Airwarfare Destroyer enter service from 2016

20 (Not 24) new corvettes

Planned Australian offshore combatant vessel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
20 OCV projected enter service beyond 2030

8(not 6) new future frigates
8 ship were enquired to replace the anzac class frigate

Thanks. Got a few of the numbers wrong, haven't read up about it in a while

 

[jhungary]

Procurement programme of the Royal Australian Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Defending Australia in the Asia Pacific Century: Force 2030 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Believe it



Thanks. Got a few of the numbers wrong, haven't read up about it in a while

no problem

 

[atya]

Get ready for WW3.

 

[sancho]

to defent the whole Australia (The size of Australia is almost identital to the size of USA)

Right now, on this moment, Australian Naval power is even smaller than Taiwan.

That's what I tried to explain earlier:

1. I am talking about countries / navies in the Indian Ocean region
2. Australia has no direct neighbors to the west, east and south that would pose any naval threat, so they don't have to have a large navy and can focus on the northern region mainly

With regard to Indo-Australian naval cooperation (pushed by the US), it's pretty obvious to see what the aim is when the 2 biggest navies in the Indian Ocean should join forces, while USN will be largely diverted to east Asia and the Pacific:

With Indian navy covering the important Sea Lanes in the Arabian Sea and Sea of Bengal, till the Straight of Malacca and the Australian navy focusing on the the norther areas towards Indonesia, one can effectively block the Sea Lanes towards China, just like keep control of PLAN coming towards the Indian Ocean.
Both navies are upgrading their submarine and ASW capabilities by far, both are prime customers of the P8I and so on, not to forget that the US wants to station certain ammount of troops and naval vessels in Australia as backups too.

 

[jhungary]

That's what I tried to explain earlier:

1. I am talking about countries / navies in the Indian Ocean region
2. Australia has no direct neighbors to the west, east and south that would pose any naval threat, so they don't have to have a large navy and can focus on the northern region mainly

With regard to Indo-Australian naval cooperation (pushed by the US), it's pretty obvious to see what the aim is when the 2 biggest navies in the Indian Ocean should join forces, while USN will be largely diverted to east Asia and the Pacific:

With Indian navy covering the important Sea Lanes in the Arabian Sea and Sea of Bengal, till the Straight of Malacca and the Australian navy focusing on the the norther areas towards Indonesia, one can effectively block the Sea Lanes towards China, just like keep control of PLAN coming towards the Indian Ocean.
Both navies are upgrading their submarine and ASW capabilities by far, both are prime customers of the P8I and so on, not to forget that the US wants to station certain ammount of troops and naval vessels in Australia as backups too.

I see two problem with the deployment, i have to say this first, i don't know much Navy tactics but rather using a Joint or Combine tactics i learn from being an Intel officer in the Army.

1.) You assume China do not have ocean going capacity
2.) You assume majority of country on SCS are oppose to China.

The problem is, if the Chinese navy have ocean going capacity (Which are soon) they will bypass the SCS and go straight to the Pacific and took the route the Jap uses during WW2. In an Open Ocean, the need of Survey and Control aircraft and picketship would be increased. And from country that looking West of the Pacific, the Survey (like E767 or E8 J-star) power only processed by 2 or 3 country, Australia, United States and Japan. If this is the case, the Australian Navy would need to switch to defend the East Coast instead of a co-op Indo-Australian joint venture with the North West, which will drain a lot of Naval Power and with not much country that can help. If the Chinese did what Japanese do in WW2, they would be super easy on cutting off the cross Pacific Sealane. And i do believe Chinese will get Ocean Going Capability before the Phase 4 upgrade of RAN and quite a lot of year ahead.

The second issue is related to Some SCS Country, namely Malaysia and Indonesia, will they acknowledge the PLAN Route and alert us is actually a big question mark. Without those 2 country to act as AWAC, our sealane to the north will be blinded and we do not have enough ship to cover all 3 shipping lane and have spare to defend the West Coast, given the East Coast is protected if we deploy our AWAC and Electronic Surveillance on the east coast. (Which is a big if)

 

[xyxmt]

Is Hillary acting foreign minister of India

 

[karan.1970]

Is Hillary acting foreign minister of India

Only if you consider Jiang Yu as a defense minister of Pakistan

Attack on Pak will be attack on China: report - Indian Express

 

[xyxmt]

Only if you consider Jiang Yu as a defense minister of Pakistan

Attack on Pak will be attack on China: report - Indian Express

dont remember if Jiang Yu ever visited any country on Pakistan's behalf but if thats what gives you any self respect then ok he is our defense minister

 

[sancho]

I see two problem with the deployment, i have to say this first, i don't know much Navy tactics but rather using a Joint or Combine tactics i learn from being an Intel officer in the Army.

1.) You assume China do not have ocean going capacity
2.) You assume majority of country on SCS are oppose to China.

No to 1, yes to 2.

I fully acknowledge PLANs Blue water capability, especially in form of their submarine fleet today, but like any navy they first have to secure their own costal area and areas of interest. So PLAN needs to split forces to engage USN (which alone is too capable to fight with just half of PLAN), Japanese and S. Korean navies on the one side and have to send remaining forces to the Indian Ocean to keep supply routes open. But here you have IN in the region above the equator, while RAN can effectivelly take care the areas below and both with their full capability without the need to split.

Point 2 is pretty obvious and because of Chinas failures in foreign policy. Just look at the recent incidents in the South Chinese Sea and the issues about certain Islands.

 

[jhungary]

No to 1, yes to 2.

I fully acknowledge PLANs Blue water capability, especially in form of their submarine fleet today, but like any navy they first have to secure their own costal area and areas of interest. So PLAN needs to split forces to engage USN (which alone is too capable to fight with just half of PLAN), Japanese and S. Korean navies on the one side and have to send remaining forces to the Indian Ocean to keep supply routes open. But here you have IN in the region above the equator, while RAN can effectivelly take care the areas below and both with their full capability without the need to split. The foreshadow is, Chinese had to have nuclear power capital ship first (ie Nuclear Aircraft Carrier)

Point 2 is pretty obvious and because of Chinas failures in foreign policy. Just look at the recent incidents in the South Chinese Sea and the issues about certain Islands.

The problem is, if and when China have Blue water navy (Which they currently do not have) once they extended their influence beyond the Guam and Mariana Island chain, no one can stop where they are heading, actually, no one will know where they were heading, not even the US. Basically part of Pacific ocean lie anywhere west of Philippine Sea and South of Pacific Ocean are unmonitored, it used to be monitored by the US with Subic base and clark field but since Filipino took the base back they have not install nor occupied those structure with apporiate aircraft and radar. And consider the vasness of the area, the whole place is one big blind spot. The only thing we can use to monitor the blind spot is with the carrier group of the 7th fleet, but they cannot be stationed there for a long run.

And compounding the problem is where Current Chinese navy is quantitively ahead and qualitively behind, they are catching up the Australian ship, even with 2030 and we have the backing of the US Navy, the Chinese navy will be an ocean going threat if they choose to become one. The problem is, America do not have asset south of the pacific so unless we can hold for maybe 48-72 hours alone in the South Pacific, basically the lack of neighbor will also be a reason why we would be back into a corner.

There are another problem lies ahead is you suggest that US/SK/JPN will contest the SCS area with the Chinese in a case of Chinese domination, but i would not do it if i was the 7th fleet commander. I will basically let them have SCS and will defend anywhere East of Taiwan, That way the US Navy can avoid all the Chinese Coastal Defence and Air cover, well, be that if you may but the whole 7 fleet plus allied cannot stand eye to eye with the whole might of PLAN + PLAAF on their own backyard, it will be suicidal to contest the SCS where you have heavy Chinese Navy and Airforce cover the whole region.

This is how i look at the situation

 

[brahmin]

Common enemy uniting friends

 

[jhungary]

Common enemy uniting friends

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it only appear in a perfect world or sun tze's art of war.....not in real life
Everybody look at their own gain, that how this world operate

 

[Tshering22]

Jeez... calm down woman.

You're in a serious rush or what?

 

[brahmin]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, it only appear in a perfect world or sun tze's art of war.....not in real life
Everybody look at their own gain, that how this world operate

for that gain only , common enemies will unite

 

[sancho]

The problem is, if and when China have Blue water navy (Which they currently do not have)

That's not correct, China already has a blue water navy, since they have the SSNs, SSBNs, a long range surface fleet and even amphibious capabilities. All they lack so far was a dedicated aircraft carrier, but that alone doesn't limit them to their costlines.
India on the other hand had an aircraft carrier, but only limited supporting vessels and no SSNs, SSBNs at all. That's why IN was limited to operations very close to India itself and why they are just on the verge of beeing a blue water navy.

once they extended their influence beyond the Guam and Mariana Island chain, no one can stop where they are heading, actually, no one will know where they were heading

That's why you (the US) are so eager to form new alliances, to tackle them in their own backyard and don't let them come close to yours. The more forces you can bring up to the region the better, the more you can split PLAN the better, the more you can hype the threat from China the better.

There are another problem lies ahead is you suggest that US/SK/JPN will contest the SCS area with the Chinese in a case of Chinese domination, but i would not do it if i was the 7th fleet commander. I will basically let them have SCS and will defend anywhere East of Taiwan

But not the commander of the 7th fleet decides this, the President of America will and from a political point of view, you can't afford to let China take Taiwan without a fight, because it once shows China that you fear them, which let them take even more than Taiwan. But on the other side countries in the region that currently supports you, will see it as well and if they have to fear that the US won't protect them, they will simply change sides and ally with China without a fight, because that is in their national interest.
Either the US stands against China, or you give them the freedom to be the main superpower, there is no middle way. The problem is, you they are catching up fast and you need new and stronger partners than you had against the Soviets. You need India and it's forces to open a second front, but India is not that easy to catch as the Europeans were in the past.