High cost of Indian Mirage 2000 fighter upgrade causing a rethink

[SQ8]

@rockstar...
depending on the system.. you do need to send a few exp pilots on a conversion course..
case in point..
PAF pilots exp in the F-16 A/B were still put through a conversion course on the C/D in the USA.
It may not be that expensive..but its needed.

The aircraft may be very advanced..but that also means a whole bunch of systems and their limitations to learn about.

 

[sancho]

Areva deal likely during Sarkozy visit

NDTV report, minute 3:00

...apart from that, the French were very encouraged by the fact that they got the confirmation from the Indian side, that the Mirage 2000 deal is finaly, actually going to get deblocked...

...apart from the short range missile cooperation, that will also happen...

...and then again, there is also a general feeling, that a whole lot of other defense deals going to be unblocked...

So, nuclear deal at least for 2 of 6 powerplants seems to be done, same for Mirage 2000 upgrade and Maitri SAM co-development with MBDA.
The other defense deals could be about the LUH competition, where Eurocopter is offering the Fennec (Eurocopter Fennec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which won the first competition and should be in lead now again. Or about the mid air refueller competition, where Airbus already won with the A330 MRTT (A330 MRTT ? The 21st Century Benchmark), but finance ministry opposed the deal. Or even the MMRCA, where Rafale should be between the leading fighters too.

I think his visit now really gets to the important parts and monday and tuesday might see some good news apart from the nuclear deal.

 

[typhoon77]

Does the quoted price include the weapons package? Or is that separate? The Mica BVR missiles aren't cheap by any means. The actual cost of the upgrade to the Mirage is probably cheaper and the weapons package and support make the costs seem exorbitant.

 

[luckyyy]

Does the quoted price include the weapons package? Or is that separate? The Mica BVR missiles aren't cheap by any means. The actual cost of the upgrade to the Mirage is probably cheaper and the weapons package and support make the costs seem exorbitant.

Mica is out of question , it has a range of 60km only , pakistan just got amarican AIM-120 which has a range of over 100km...
and you are right that these missiles are not cheap , almost over 1mlUSD each...

 

[typhoon77]

Mica is out of question , it has a range of 60km only , pakistan just got amarican AIM-120 which has a range of over 100km...
and you are right that these missiles are not cheap , almost over 1mlUSD each...

It has to be the Mica for the Mirage 2000. France doesn't have another BVR missile besides it. The meteor is still in development and I doubt that the IAF would use the AIM-120 series. The Mirages won't be used in the Air-superiority role,hence they don't need long rave BVRAAM's. The 60km on the Mica IR/ER more than fine.

 

[luckyyy]

It has to be the Mica for the Mirage 2000. France doesn't have another BVR missile besides it. The meteor is still in development and I doubt that the IAF would use the AIM-120 series. The Mirages won't be used in the Air-superiority role,hence they don't need long rave BVRAAM's. The 60km on the Mica IR/ER more than fine.

plase explane how a 60km mica is fine against a 120km AIM-120 with pakistan....

 

[typhoon77]

plase explane how a 60km mica is fine against a 120km AIM-120 with pakistan....

Did you bother to read my post at all? The Mirages won't be tasked with Air-superiority missions. That job will go to the Su-30MKI and the MRCA. So since it won't be tasked with those missions, the Mica is more than enough of a BVR missile for the Mirage.
Paksitan's AMRAAM's don't have a range of 120km they were supplied the C5 version which has a max range of a little more than 100km (105km i think not sue exactly). But no one ever uses the max range when engaging enemy fighters.

 

[Kinetic]

I always thought instead of upgrading the existing Mirages with that huge money see them with little modification to any interested country at low cost than buy equal number of Rafale with the total money or it may require some more.

 

[sathya]

since this the deal about to be done,
this thread can be closed and a new thread can be made..

 

[jha]

 

[ANG]

Hi, this will be a wicked plane after the upgrade. It should be on par with the F-16 Block 50/52. I will make a very nice and potent upgrade to the IAF. Take care.

India’s Fighter Upgrades: Mirage 2000s Finally Get a Deal?

 

[kingdurgaking]

what a bad deal... we should have bought rafale for this money.. It would have been a great platform.. i dont understand how they are making the deals...

Apart from the airframe and engine with some sub system everything is going to be new.. new cockpit , weapons, avionics , EW etc etc.. it is almost like a new aircraft for the pilots.. Instead IAF should have bought the new Rafale and should have done the trainings and induction..

 

[jagjitnatt]

what a bad deal... we should have bought rafale for this money.. It would have been a great platform.. i dont understand how they are making the deals...

Apart from the airframe and engine with some sub system everything is going to be new.. new cockpit , weapons, avionics , EW etc etc.. it is almost like a new aircraft for the pilots.. Instead IAF should have bought the new Rafale and should have done the trainings and induction..

We could have bought Rafale, fine, but how many mate?
Even after selling all of our Mirages, we would have been able to buy no more than 10-15 Rafale.

This is because there is no commonality between our Mirages and Rafales. Upgrading the Mirages is a wise choice, it will extend their life by 15 years at least, so they will serve till 2030.

And the upgraded Mirages would be more than a match for PAF F-16 block 52. The MICA is a more capable missile than the AIM 120C.

IAF is happy with Mirages and I see no reason to replace them so soon.

 

[ANG]

Hi, we are talking some serious firepower even with 51 upgraded Mirage 2000s. The PAF will have at the most 70+ new and upgraded F-16s. These Mirage 2000 planes would be more than a match for them. Also India should try to get better terms for the the Qatari and UAE Mirage-2000s. If they could also induct those, you are talking a lot of advanced planes with serious strike capabilities.

Inducting the Rafale means training air crews, maintenance crews, getting new supplies, new simulators, new weapons, infrastucture, etc. It would be much more expensive. Take care.

 

[luckyyy]

We could have bought Rafale, fine, but how many mate?
Even after selling all of our Mirages, we would have been able to buy no more than 10-15 Rafale.

This is because there is no commonality between our Mirages and Rafales. Upgrading the Mirages is a wise choice, it will extend their life by 15 years at least, so they will serve till 2030.

And the upgraded Mirages would be more than a match for PAF F-16 block 52. The MICA is a more capable missile than the AIM 120C.

IAF is happy with Mirages and I see no reason to replace them so soon.

mica has a maximum range of 60km..
AIM 120C has a maximum range of 120km..