Hezbollah launch attack on Israeli troops

[A.P. Richelieu]

No it's not falsifying history. Carpet bombing is saturated bombing over a large area. When entire neighbourhoods are bombed to the ground, it is called carpet bombing.

Stop being an Israeli war-crime sympathizer.

You are yet to show that it is a large area.
Pictures does not show an entire neighbourhood, rather a few blocks in a neighbourhood.

And no, if you destroy one house per day, and over a period of time level an entire
neighbourhood, it is not Carpet Bombing.

The term Carpet Bombing came from the image of explosions covering an entire area.
One or a few bombs at a time does not qualify as Carpet Bombing.

As a sidenote, Carpet Bombing is not illegal in itself. It is at the same time not inherently legal.
What determines legality is wether the target is a military objective or not.
Precense of civilians does not directly make a target illegal to attack.
The principle of proportionality needs then to be applied.

Hamas, by boobytrapping previously purely civilian buildings, renders basically ALL buildings in the path of IDF military objectives.
International Law does not require a commander to put his troops at risk in order to save civilian property.
In order to safeguard the troops, a responsible commander can therefore legally order a building to be demolished
before entry, once it can be established that entering without previous destruction has high risk.

If Israeli commanders have ordered indiscriminate destruction and killings of civilians,
frankly they are stupid, because they can do it legally, due to Hamas tactics.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

You are yet to show that it is a large area.
Pictures does not show an entire neighbourhood, rather a few blocks in a neighbourhood.

And no, if you destroy one house per day, and over a period of time level an entire
neighbourhood, it is not Carpet Bombing.

The term Carpet Bombing came from the image of explosions covering an entire area.
One or a few bombs at a time does not qualify as Carpet Bombing.

As a sidenote, Carpet Bombing is not illegal in itself. It is at the same time not inherently legal.
What determines legality is wether the target is a military objective or not.
Precense of civilians does not directly make a target illegal to attack.
The principle of proportionality needs then to be applied.

Hamas, by boobytrapping previously purely civilian buildings, renders basically ALL buildings in the path of IDF military objectives.
International Law does not require a commander to put his troops at risk in order to save civilian property.
In order to safeguard the troops, a responsible commander can therefore legally order a building to be demolished
before entry, once it can be established that entering without previous destruction has high risk.

If Israeli commanders have ordered indiscriminate destruction and killings of civilians,
frankly they are stupid, because they can do it legally, due to Hamas tactics.

Israel didn't destroy 1 house per day. It was way above a few hundred. Also, bombing schools, hospitals, water plants and power plants (which Israel did) are themselves war crimes.

Also, the crap about "hidding bombs in civilian building" is a load of BS. If weapons storages are bombed there is a 2nd explosion followed after the first one (as the stored ammunitions burns) and it rarely happened at Gaza. Even Israeli soldiers admitted that civilians were deliberately targeted.
Israeli soldiers claim Palestinian civilians were targeted during Gaza war

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Israel didn't destroy 1 house per day. It was way above a few hundred. Also, bombing schools, hospitals, water plants and power plants (which Israel did) are themselves war crimes.

Also, the crap about "hidding bombs in civilian building" is a load of BS. If weapons storages are bombed there is a 2nd explosion followed after the first one (as the stored ammunitions burns) and it rarely happened at Gaza. Even Israeli soldiers admitted that civilians were deliberately targeted.
Israeli soldiers claim Palestinian civilians were targeted during Gaza war

1 house per day was an example to clarify the difference.
Bombing any target can be legal or illegal, including schools or hospitals.
U.N. discovered several times during the conflict tat the Palestinians were storing missiles
in their facilities, making them a military target.
The procedure you have to go through, before you legally can bomb a hospital,
is described in the Geneva Conventions and is fairly complex, but in the end if the Hospital
is used for military purposes, it can be legally bombed.

Once it has been established that Hamas boobytraps "civilian" buildings to kill IDF soldiers,
or use them to store weapons or ammunitions, that is giving a free card to IDF.
Since they cannot safely enter for inspection, the house can be demolished legally in advance.
If a specific house contains any military material or not, is of no interest at this point.

Hamas is the only part that can protect an area, by declaring it to be safe to enter = Open City.
They did not do it.

Given the free card, i repeat that any commander that did not use it as the motivation is stupid.

 

[HAIDER]

I swear I could say the same thing about Khamenei.

wallah.....

 

[SALMAN F]

Just pure facts. Hezbollah was founded by Iran, armed by Iran, financed by Iran and gets orders from Iran.

View attachment 284925 View attachment 284926 View attachment 284927 View attachment 284928 View attachment 284929 View attachment 284930

long live nasrallah

 

[Signalian]

Israel vs different militias, is always an interesting skirmish. Both keep using new tactics to over power each other.

PA must study Israeli tactics and weapons to deal with insurgents, miscreants and terrorists creating problem in pakistan.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

The procedure you have to go through, before you legally can bomb a hospital,

Please tell us about the procedure as I haven't heard any. Also, I clearly provided the link that says that IDF intentionally targeted civilians and it was said by IDF soldiers not any other.

Once it has been established that Hamas boobytraps "civilian" buildings to kill IDF soldiers,
or use them to store weapons or ammunitions, that is giving a free card to IDF.

IDF were too afraid to go into Gaza and thus stayed close to the Israeli borders and resorted to massive scale artillery fire and ariel bombing. Thus I don't think you can use that excuse.

Since they cannot safely enter for inspection, the house can be demolished legally in advance.

Who gave Israel the right to enter Gaza! Last time I checked it was part of Palestine not Israel.

 

[Chaudharry]

You joined in 2009 and in 2016 all you could come up is something like this ..

Speak Less, Speak True. . .

You do realise we're talking about an Iranian terrorist group operating in Lebanon and firing on Israel, right?

They may be firing on Israel, but Israel is bombing on Palestinians. Right?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Please tell us about the procedure as I haven't heard any. Also, I clearly provided the link that says that IDF intentionally targeted civilians and it was said by IDF soldiers not any other.

IDF were too afraid to go into Gaza and thus stayed close to the Israeli borders and resorted to massive scale artillery fire and ariel bombing. Thus I don't think you can use that excuse.

Who gave Israel the right to enter Gaza! Last time I checked it was part of Palestine not Israel.

When someone is using a school for military purposes, lets say by firing mortars,
You can bomb it immediately.
If someone does the same thing from a hospital, the hospital must be contacted and warned.
The party firing mortars are then supposed to evacuate the hospital area.
If they do, then the hospital must not be attacked.
If they remain, then the hospital can be attacked.

IDF entered boobytrapped houses in the beginning.
Hamas blew them up, causing casualties.
This is all that is needed.

As for the example of the two women, You cannot tell what they did in an area,
which has been marked for attack.
They may be totally innocent, or may be observers.
According to the article, they were observed, but could not be identified,
so a drone was sent up, and based on the video, they were attacked.
If there were no conditions for firing, then the drone would not have been sent,
then they would just have been killed...
That does of course not stop the commander from thinking "What the heck" and
fire even if they looked and behaved like innocent civilians.
IDF has a number of cases where they suspect war crimes.

I have not heard of a single case where Palestinians are prosecuted by Hamas
for war crimes, even though they committed thousands of war crimes.
Each unguided missile IS a war crime, and also gives Israel all the rights to enter Gaza.

Whether IDF commit war crimes or not, can only be determined by investigations.
As shown, you cannot say, a school or a hospital was bombed, therefore a war crime
has been committed.
At the same time, you cannot say, since a hospital can under certain circumstances
be attacked, no attack on a hospital was a war crime.
You just throw around sloppy comments without knowledge.
Typical lynch mob mentality, without respect for due process.

The idea that sending warnings about an imminent attack allows Israel to kill
anyone remaining is really not covered by the Geneva Convention.
That needs to be evaluated by experts on International Law.

Obviously, once it has been designated a military target, then artillery fire may kill civilians remaining,
but aimed firing at civilians may still be illegal.
Proven resistance by Palestinians dressed in civilian clothes will complicate the issue.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

When someone is using a school for military purposes, lets say by firing mortars,
You can bomb it immediately.
If someone does the same thing from a hospital, the hospital must be contacted and warned.
The party firing mortars are then supposed to evacuate the hospital area.
If they do, then the hospital must not be attacked.
If they remain, then the hospital can be attacked.

IDF entered boobytrapped houses in the beginning.
Hamas blew them up, causing casualties.
This is all that is needed.

As for the example of the two women, You cannot tell what they did in an area,
which has been marked for attack.
They may be totally innocent, or may be observers.
According to the article, they were observed, but could not be identified,
so a drone was sent up, and based on the video, they were attacked.
If there were no conditions for firing, then the drone would not have been sent,
then they would just have been killed...
That does of course not stop the commander from thinking "What the heck" and
fire even if they looked and behaved like innocent civilians.
IDF has a number of cases where they suspect war crimes.

I have not heard of a single case where Palestinians are prosecuted by Hamas
for war crimes, even though they committed thousands of war crimes.
Each unguided missile IS a war crime, and also gives Israel all the rights to enter Gaza.

Whether IDF commit war crimes or not, can only be determined by investigations.
As shown, you cannot say, a school or a hospital was bombed, therefore a war crime
has been committed.
At the same time, you cannot say, since a hospital can under certain circumstances
be attacked, no attack on a hospital was a war crime.
You just throw around sloppy comments without knowledge.
Typical lynch mob mentality, without respect for due process.

The idea that sending warnings about an imminent attack allows Israel to kill
anyone remaining is really not covered by the Geneva Convention.
That needs to be evaluated by experts on International Law.

Obviously, once it has been designated a military target, then artillery fire may kill civilians remaining,
but aimed firing at civilians may still be illegal.
Proven resistance by Palestinians dressed in civilian clothes will complicate the issue.

There were plenty of international journalists present at Gaza and they themselves have said that the Israeli claims are mostly false. A lot of UN facilities were bombed and those were operated by UN staff. If Hamas had stored weapons in them then wouldn't these staff tell us about it after they returned!

What about these children!
Israeli naval ship bombs Palestinian children on Gaza beach, killing four - Telegraph

How do you explain killing of UN workers by Israeli airstrikes
Gaza Crisis: Israeli Air Strikes Kill Three UN Workers and Hit UNRWA Shelter

Here's the Geneva Convention:
A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that civilians must enjoy general protection against danger arising from military operations. The rule of civilian immunity is one of "the oldest fundamental maxims"of international customary law, meaning that it is binding on all parties to a conflict, regardless of whether a conflict is international or non-international in character. Non-state parties to a conflict are also obliged to respect the norms of customary international law. At all times, it is forbidden to direct attacks against civilians; indeed, to attack civilians intentionally while aware of their civilian status is a war crime. It is thus an imperative duty for an attacker to identify and distinguish non-combatants from combatants in every situation.

The bold part clearly says Israel has no right to attack civilians (bombing their homes) but you will still argue with facts.

Hamas only stores weapons in empty buildings.

 

[Bornubus]

What was the response of Hizbollah,when Israel Targeted Jihad and Imad Mughniyah ?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

There were plenty of international journalists present at Gaza and they themselves have said that the Israeli claims are mostly false. A lot of UN facilities were bombed and those were operated by UN staff. If Hamas had stored weapons in them then wouldn't these staff tell us about it after they returned!

What about these children!
Israeli naval ship bombs Palestinian children on Gaza beach, killing four - Telegraph

How do you explain killing of UN workers by Israeli airstrikes
Gaza Crisis: Israeli Air Strikes Kill Three UN Workers and Hit UNRWA Shelter

Here's the Geneva Convention:
A fundamental rule of international humanitarian law is that civilians must enjoy general protection against danger arising from military operations. The rule of civilian immunity is one of "the oldest fundamental maxims"of international customary law, meaning that it is binding on all parties to a conflict, regardless of whether a conflict is international or non-international in character. Non-state parties to a conflict are also obliged to respect the norms of customary international law. At all times, it is forbidden to direct attacks against civilians; indeed, to attack civilians intentionally while aware of their civilian status is a war crime. It is thus an imperative duty for an attacker to identify and distinguish non-combatants from combatants in every situation.

The bold part clearly says Israel has no right to attack civilians (bombing their homes) but you will still argue with facts.

Hamas only stores weapons in empty buildings.

Quite stupid to ignore the well known facts...

Diplomat: UN Gave Hamas Rockets to the Palestinian Government

U.N. buildings can be classified as military targets after that.

You expect anyone beeing bombed is going to be impartial?

And You ignore:

Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
TREATMENT II. DANGER ZONES

• 
  ARTICLE 28 [ Link ]
  
  The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

Since housing through Hamas behaviour has been reclassified as military objectives,
anyone killed by artillery fire into this buildings are collateral damage and not war crimes.

If a party does not separate themselves from civilians through a uniform, or another
visible sign, they are in breach of the convention, and the rules to separate
civilians from combatants is then based on behaviour and not on clothing.
Whether remaining in a zone declared to be a military objective counts as
behaviour sufficient to designate someone as a combatant remains to be seen.

As for Your examples, they are beeing investigated:

Israel opens first investigation of senior officer over Gaza war | The Times of Israel

Obviously shelling a medical clinic one day after a sniper fires from within (which is a war crime),
is not legal. Firing back right after is not legal either, if the clinic has visible sign
showing it is a clinic. Unless its use as a clinic was not known to the commander,
he is in trouble.

When are we going to see Palestinians investigating Palestinian War Crimes?

 

[Falcon29]

When someone is using a school for military purposes, lets say by firing mortars,
You can bomb it immediately.
If someone does the same thing from a hospital, the hospital must be contacted and warned.
The party firing mortars are then supposed to evacuate the hospital area.
If they do, then the hospital must not be attacked.
If they remain, then the hospital can be attacked.

Nobody was firing mortars from hospitals. Stop frothing out of your mouth.

IDF entered boobytrapped houses in the beginning.
Hamas blew them up, causing casualties.
This is all that is needed.

Wrong, Israel warned all civilians near the border to leave their homes(warning and bombing and ground invasion, civilians fled). Israeli forces occupied those private homes and stationed their forces there in order to facilitate entry of other troops/armor. Afterwards Hamas sent fighters to rig their positions. Which are the accounts described by Israeli news sites and Hamas armed wing accounts.

The saturation bombing in Shaijayeh only occurred during the first hour of the invasion. So it was not a tally of air strikes throughout the whole conflict.

Proven resistance by Palestinians dressed in civilian clothes will complicate the issue.

Wrong again. These are not 'civilian clothes' kiddo:

^^^

You can see here Israel clearly identified them with the drone strike in the middle of the video. That drone strike didn't stop Hamas from wiping out IDF presence there.

........

Clearly no civilian dress:

.....

No civilian dress:

Moments before targeting IDF officers(clearly seen in mock Israeli army fatigue):

Here is conclusion:
Two soldiers killed by Hamas infiltrators Saturday morning | The Times of Israel
........

Quite stupid to ignore the well known facts...

Diplomat: UN Gave Hamas Rockets to the Palestinian Government

U.N. buildings can be classified as military targets after that.

UN didn't find anything, they saw expired/faulty munitions which the police force does controlled demolitions of. The security forces in Gaza are tasked with collecting any left over bombs in the strip. There was no school there and nobody in the building, it is building for security forces.

All weaponry nowadays in Gaza is stored underground, there's no such thing as storing munitions in buildings. Palestinians have proper military warehouses underground and they have tunnels to transfer anything from point A to point B if needed.

Obviously shelling a medical clinic one day after a sniper fires from within (which is a war crime),
is not legal.

No such thing happened, you are lying. There are no combatants in a hospital, the hospital is full of civilians, journalists and doctors and nobody reported such a thing. They would be able to clearly identify any gun fire in the building. Palestinians don't have rag tag tactics. They have snipers in fatigue camo which do their job well. Just because your Israeli retard buddies couldn't identify them doesn't give them a right to shell a hospital. The little girl kids in IDF tanks don't even know where they are firing shells.

 

[500]

Nobody was firing mortars from hospitals. Stop frothing out of your mouth.

Wrong again. These are not 'civilian clothes' kiddo:

LOL ur video shows they are in civilian clothes. One has even a red shirt.

Moments before targeting IDF officers(clearly seen in mock Israeli army fatigue):

Yep Hamas wears uniform only in two cases:

1) For show.
2) To disguise as Israeli soldiers.

 

[Falcon29]

What the hell is this? A language I don't even understand. You really think we need to fire back from parking lots near a hospital? Once again no proof. Israel can go ahead show us footage of any such thing. All the launchers are planted beforehand. We don't fire single rounds anymore.

This is not a 'hospital parking lot', kiddo:

LOL ur video shows they are in civilian clothes. One has even a red shirt.

Yep Hamas wears uniform only in two cases:

1) For show.
2) To disguise as Israeli soldiers.

Yeah, if you don't wear Western style uniform than you must be wearing civilian clothing. You don't see any US special forces trying to blend in with environment dressing in scout uniform. Get lost kiddo.