Has KSA chosen a side?

[Enigma SIG]

Doesn’t show any results - with the level of bragging we should have been a first world country but frankly can’t compete with our former eastern bloc in basic imports and literacy.

Unless this false sense of superiority comes off and a realistic view of how much cultural and ethical change is required within the common Pakistani to even get to a level where we can merit such bragging; we are going to be the same fifth years from now.

That is besides the point that Pakistani's are genuinely hard working people. That they have less opportunities at home due to a multitude of reasons is beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

[StormBreaker]

That is besides the point that Pakistani's are genuinely hard working people. That they have less opportunities at home due to a multitude of reasons is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Tbh,
No, We aren’t as hard working as you think, I have seen more hard working Bangladeshis and Indians than Pakistanis, We also have this “Lazy” gene in us, even as a labor. Hire a Pakistani as an employee and what you see common among them is throwing their jobs to other employees shoulders.

 

[SQ8]

I think this is a resultant pride to the original “Hum Proud Pakistani hain”, People misinterpret their selves to being some extraordinary superior race while actually these same people when go out to other countries, Find themselves extremely lacking in many many things including manners, Standard, Etiquettes and Knwoledge especially rationality.

Its a general lack of balance in society - no one asks Pakistanis to have inferiority complexes but they have the oddest combination; they have an inordinate desire to be either an arab, turk or a white man but simultaneously consider other races beneath their individual ethnicity/class (Punjabi, Pukhtoon, Urdu-natives-Mohajir etc).

Within that they believe that by some fault not of their own(heaven forbid a Pakistani generally accepts their own mistakes and faults) they are disadvantaged or being punished for other Pakistanis sins hence why their streets is flooded with gutter water or some corrupt politician rules them.

The inability to balance pride of culture with actual smart hard work and ingrained ethics is why currently there is still no improvement path for Pakistanis - I can guarantee with the current mentality reflected through the majority of online Pakistanis and family; they will still be mourning Karachi floods, be closet racists or bigots supporting ethnocentric politics or sectarian hatred 50 years from now.

 

[SQ8]

That is besides the point that Pakistani's are genuinely hard working people. That they have less opportunities at home due to a multitude of reasons is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Only agree on this being beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Brother technically we are more advanced than Arabs are primitive low developed intellectually, thats why slavery to them financially is even more illustrative of our failure as a state, They need us to operate their own military they don't know how to use these military toys lol, in order to not be failed state we need to give our citizens better high quality education otherwise 14th IMF bailout coming.

Maybe not the right of words as it comes across very insulting.

However yes, Arabs have failed to utilize their wealth to protect themselves from future crises. Furthermore, they have destabilized their own region and promoted policies which will harm them in the future.

Neither Pakistan nor anyone else can help them now. Israels' expansionist wars are around the corner and the Arab world is in absolute disarray.

Pakistan needs to focus on what will help us, which means a stronger alliance with China and utilizing our economy to tap the demands of Chinese economy. We need to become an export economy. Defense exports like JF-17. That means more value-added products (pink salt, etc.) Promotion of Pakistani traditional crafts, clothing, textiles, produce to China. Encouraging tourism and establishing tourist friendly cities, particularly for Chinese, Arabs, Turks, IndoMalay, and Nordic tourists.

We have only a few friends left, so we need to tap those resources. Furthermore the pipeline to Turkmenistan must be built and we need to enter CAR in full force. It will also give us a land connection to Turkey bypassing ME and Iran.

There is no reason for us to antagonize either KSA or Iran. We should simply stop expecting anything from them. They made their choice, so we will build our policy around it.

As long as everyone understands our red flags, then we can deal with these countries openly. That is similar, for example, to Turkey and the issue of Cyprus, Armenians, etc.

Kashmir, sectarianism, courting India, and accepting Israel are red lines for Pakistanis. That is not up for discussion or change.

 

[EpiiC]

No they don’t - what is your proof to that?
Who is doing their training now? Who heads their military and strategy process?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/why-pakistan-sending-1000-troops-saudi-arabia

The Saudis may think there is an internal issue - they can't trust their guys, so they are getting the Pakistanis'

- Kamal Alam, RUSI

The results of over 150 interviews in the region suggest that this bazaar is not unique to the UAE and Saudi Arabia.1 In 2009, 64 percent of the staff at Bahrain’s National Security Agency were non-Bahrainis. Abdulhadi Khalaf, the eminent Bahraini sociologist in exile, claims that “the rank and file in the Bahraini military, police, and security forces consist almost entirelyof foreign recruits,” but he does not name his source. Pakistani personnel make up 18 percent of the Bahraini air force, and altogether 10,000 Pakistani nationals are employed by Bahrain’s coercive apparatus.

https://carnegie-mec.org/2020/02/05/foreign-contract-soldiers-in-gulf-pub-80979


The Saudi military is almost entirely staffed by mercenaries. The Saudi jets bombing an air defenseless Yemen are piloted by Pakistanis. Its mid and low level officers are mainly from Jordan and most ominously for its ability to actually launch a ground invasion, its rank and file soldiers are almost entirely from Yemen.

https://www.countercurrents.org/mountain130415.htm

 

[SQ8]

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/why-pakistan-sending-1000-troops-saudi-arabia

The Saudis may think there is an internal issue - they can't trust their guys, so they are getting the Pakistanis'

- Kamal Alam, RUSI

The results of over 150 interviews in the region suggest that this bazaar is not unique to the UAE and Saudi Arabia.1 In 2009, 64 percent of the staff at Bahrain’s National Security Agency were non-Bahrainis. Abdulhadi Khalaf, the eminent Bahraini sociologist in exile, claims that “the rank and file in the Bahraini military, police, and security forces consist almost entirelyof foreign recruits,” but he does not name his source. Pakistani personnel make up 18 percent of the Bahraini air force, and altogether 10,000 Pakistani nationals are employed by Bahrain’s coercive apparatus.

https://carnegie-mec.org/2020/02/05/foreign-contract-soldiers-in-gulf-pub-80979


The Saudi military is almost entirely staffed by mercenaries. The Saudi jets bombing an air defenseless Yemen are piloted by Pakistanis. Its mid and low level officers are mainly from Jordan and most ominously for its ability to actually launch a ground invasion, its rank and file soldiers are almost entirely from Yemen.

https://www.countercurrents.org/mountain130415.htm

Superfluous claim and not exactly a reliable source to support that.

The trust issue was rectified once MBS was done with the cleanup - much like Erdogan had done and we offered to assist there as well.
Today it is GCC pilots flying over Yemen and GCC troops holding the fort. The Egyptians have stepped into the security role happily to replace us so it doesn’t matter which Arab is fighting so long as they are competent.
You need to visit KSA before quoting hearsay or urban myths , the new generation is way ahead in thinking and capability; in many ways more qualified and educated than our average middle class Pakistani.

 

[Vapnope]

Has KSA chosen a side?

Yes, and the KSA has chosen the side of KSA... They will do everything for their own interests even that means throwing Pakistan under the bus.

Should we blame them?
No, not at all. It is us who have been assuring them of all kind of protection and support they never said anything emotional. In retrospect, we messed up big time and it isn't the fault of anyone else but our very own fault.

Are we going to learn from it?
Chances are grim that we will learn anything from it. Instead we will end up making more enemies than friends..

 

[StormBreaker]

Superfluous claim and not exactly a reliable source to support that.

The trust issue was rectified once MBS was done with the cleanup - much like Erdogan had done and we offered to assist there as well.
Today it is GCC pilots flying over Yemen and GCC troops holding the fort. The Egyptians have stepped into the security role happily to replace us so it doesn’t matter which Arab is fighting so long as they are competent.
You need to visit KSA before quoting hearsay or urban myths , the new generation is way ahead in thinking and capability; in many ways more qualified and educated than our average middle class Pakistani.

Bitter truth for the “Superior” minded Pakistanis.

The previous generation or the second generation Pakistanis were the reason why we got a good name in the world, The current Generation is a disaster and nothing short of useless clowns, busy making some tranny tiktok vids and Licking boots of Communist traditions.

We have lost the creativity and the Usefulness, The day KSA considers PakistanIS useless, Will be the day Pakistan realizes how Isolated we have become thanks to our stupid Foreign policy and Pleasuring some unnecessary people who in turn bite us and nothing less.

 

[SQ8]

Bitter truth for the “Superior” minded Pakistanis.

The previous generation or the second generation Pakistanis were the reason why we got a good name in the world, The current Generation is a disaster and nothing short of useless clowns, busy making some tranny tiktok vids and Licking boots of Communist traditions.

We have lost the creativity and the Usefulness, The day KSA considers PakistanIS useless, Will be the day Pakistan realizes how Isolated we have become thanks to our stupid Foreign policy and Pleasuring some unnecessary people who in turn bite us and nothing less.

I won’t go that far or absolve the previous generations of their far greater sins - but it is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Dalit]

You reply has nothing to do with my comment. I am not favouring monchary of saudi arabia.
You havent even read my comment before commenting.

Who said that I commented to you specifically? It was a general comment.

 

[Dalit]

PTI fascists are like BJP Nazis.

Hell bent on isolating the country for paper dreams.

Of course. Now let's turn it into an anti-PTI debate. How is Bilawal doing? I heard he has joined Sindhudesh.

 

[StormBreaker]

I won’t go that far or absolve the previous generations of their far greater sins - but it is beyond the scope of this thread.

Sir,

The serious approach to world, Profession, Education, Was more common in the previous generation as they were Living in a Transitional Age towards a Digital world.

Their experience vs people of my Gen, Zameen asman ka farq, I say this on the scale as to how My father and his friends compare with me and My friends, Off course, I am an exception to this Gen

 

[Dalit]

Why don’t we ourselves see the clear image, KSA is trapped in a bubble that India has created due to India’s clear advantage ?

Burst the bubble by speaking on Kashmir and BOOOM !!!, India goes away to other supplier.

Plus, Just weigh the advantage of KSA speaking for Kashmir, Will that make any difference ?

Gov should grow up and act maturely given the power we have in the form of military and nukes, As well as backing of China, What have we to fear ?

War is inevitable, Kashmir can only be won by war, Not some stupid table talks that Mr Khan thinks of, He should stop acting like Mahatma, Grow up and Get into the real world.

That is all dandy, but what does Saudi unwillingness to mention India at an IOC Kashmir moot have anything to do with Imran Khan's desire to resolve Kashmir dispute through table talks?

I agree that Imran Khan needs to become more realistic that Kashmir cannot be resolved through negations with Hindustan. We need a war for that purpose. That doesn't mean that Saudi should throw Kashmir under a bus. Saudi Arabia knows deep inside it went too far by ignoring and rejecting Pak demands to mention India as a transgressor at OIC. Plain and simple.

 

[StormBreaker]

That is all dandy, but what does Saudi unwillingness to mention India at an IOC Kashmir moot have anything to do with Imran Khan's desire to resolve Kashmir dispute through table talks?

I agree that Imran Khan needs to become more realistic that Kashmir cannot be resolved through negations with Hindustan. We need a war for that purpose. That doesn't mean that Saudi should throw Kashmir under a bus.

If I tell you the possible answer I have in mind, Many here will get pissed.

I have a feeling that some particular country/countries are pushing Pak to Bring KSA over Kashmir at OIC which I think is justifiable as KSA is a major member of OIC, However, that doesn’t serve any objective interest towards Kashmir cause.

OIC is nothing near UN, If UN doesn’t solve Kashmir, What is OIC ?

And if the reason is that the purpose of OIC was to create a common table for Muslim states to help each other in issues, Then I am sorry, It isn’t possible. Every state has their own interest.