Has KSA chosen a side?

[Dalit]

Bitter truth for the “Superior” minded Pakistanis.

The previous generation or the second generation Pakistanis were the reason why we got a good name in the world, The current Generation is a disaster and nothing short of useless clowns, busy making some tranny tiktok vids and Licking boots of Communist traditions.

We have lost the creativity and the Usefulness, The day KSA considers PakistanIS useless, Will be the day Pakistan realizes how Isolated we have become thanks to our stupid Foreign policy and Pleasuring some unnecessary people who in turn bite us and nothing less.

Let's not complicate this discussion. This isn't rocket science. Let's not digress. The topic is clear in its definition. Saudi Arabia shouldn't have thrown Kashmir under the bus. Pakistan's demands were legitimate. India has put Kashmir under lockdown for a very long period now. The whole world acknowledges that Modi is a transgressor. Instead of supporting Kashmir, the Saudis tried to hush Pakistan. When people question this development they are genuinely concerned why this has happened.

 

[Dalit]

If I tell you the possible answer I have in mind, Many here will get pissed.

I have a feeling that some particular country/countries are pushing Pak to Bring KSA over Kashmir at OIC which I think is justifiable as KSA is a major member of OIC, However, that doesn’t serve any objective interest towards Kashmir cause.

OIC is nothing near UN, If UN doesn’t solve Kashmir, What is OIC ?

And if the reason is that the purpose of OIC was to create a common table for Muslim states to help each other in issues, Then I am sorry, It isn’t possible. Every state has their own interest.

This is not about what OIC is or isn't. It is not even about how powerful or influential OIC is on the world stage. It is about gesture and intent. Of course it is symbolic. OIC condemning Indian atrocities in Kashmir would have done a world of good for clarity and understanding between Pakistan and OIC members. Instead, it has now damaged the perception. It seems we are not on the same wavelength.

 

[Dalit]

Its a general lack of balance in society - no one asks Pakistanis to have inferiority complexes but they have the oddest combination; they have an inordinate desire to be either an arab, turk or a white man but simultaneously consider other races beneath their individual ethnicity/class (Punjabi, Pukhtoon, Urdu-natives-Mohajir etc).

Within that they believe that by some fault not of their own(heaven forbid a Pakistani generally accepts their own mistakes and faults) they are disadvantaged or being punished for other Pakistanis sins hence why their streets is flooded with gutter water or some corrupt politician rules them.

The inability to balance pride of culture with actual smart hard work and ingrained ethics is why currently there is still no improvement path for Pakistanis - I can guarantee with the current mentality reflected through the majority of online Pakistanis and family; they will still be mourning Karachi floods, be closet racists or bigots supporting ethnocentric politics or sectarian hatred 50 years from now.

We are mistaken to believe that we are an exception. We have many ills as a society. Yes, we are also guilty of personality worship which we inherited from Subcontinent culture. However, we are hardly an exception. Nations and peoples around the world espouse role models. It is part of human nature. Although, Pakistanis can look to Turkey, Arabs and others who have impacted their culture and history.

I do agree that we Pakistanis have a long way to go in uniting properly. The various ethnic groups are a shambles. We have a lot of soul searching to do before we can call ourselves a unified country. There are many reasons for disagreements, but our attitude and behavior towards each other is the main culrpit.

 

[Khan vilatey]

This false arrogance is the true downfall of many Pakistanis - thinking you are some god’s gift to earth while being essentially worthless slackers

but but Allah made Pakistan and we are Gods gift on earth......maybe not you (joking).... everyone is a gift on earth but some use this gift wisely some do not....yet still Pakistanis are Gods gift on earth. Please prove otherwise.

No they don’t - what is your proof to that?
Who is doing their training now? Who heads their military and strategy process?

Arabs are usually incompetent at battle, they have lost their martial touch....I blame MTV. See the superior Saudi air force and army lose to the huti. The pan Arab forces failed in Syria.... even the uae after successfully using Winglong 2 drones lost from a position of strength to Turkey. Remember who shot down Israeli mirages ........Pakistanis

Its a general lack of balance in society - no one asks Pakistanis to have inferiority complexes but they have the oddest combination; they have an inordinate desire to be either an arab, turk or a white man but simultaneously consider other races beneath their individual ethnicity/class (Punjabi, Pukhtoon, Urdu-natives-Mohajir etc).

Within that they believe that by some fault not of their own(heaven forbid a Pakistani generally accepts their own mistakes and faults) they are disadvantaged or being punished for other Pakistanis sins hence why their streets is flooded with gutter water or some corrupt politician rules them.

The inability to balance pride of culture with actual smart hard work and ingrained ethics is why currently there is still no improvement path for Pakistanis - I can guarantee with the current mentality reflected through the majority of online Pakistanis and family; they will still be mourning Karachi floods, be closet racists or bigots supporting ethnocentric politics or sectarian hatred 50 years from now.

well, the best Pakistanis are overseas Pakistanis than come the ones in Pakistan. All jokes aside the overseas Pakistanis should get the vote!

Reading your post I saw myself from years ago bitter and young! Your post hit a nerve.

But then I realized that I am and always Will be Pakistani. Sure Pakistan is not perfect, it’s a work in progress but it is the only reason why I got the chances in life to succeed. If I was born in India I would be subjugated and like 90% of Muslims who are under the poverty line there would not have had the opportunities that were open to me in this down trodden Pakistan

I am grateful to Allah that I was born in Pakistan

Pakistan Zindabad

kv

 

[Dalit]

Has KSA chosen a side?

Yes, and the KSA has chosen the side of KSA... They will do everything for their own interests even that means throwing Pakistan under the bus.

Should we blame them?
No, not at all. It is us who have been assuring them of all kind of protection and support they never said anything emotional. In retrospect, we messed up big time and it isn't the fault of anyone else but our very own fault.

Are we going to learn from it?
Chances are grim that we will learn anything from it. Instead we will end up making more enemies than friends..

All misunderstandings and mishaps are mendable as long as the intention is right. Let's see how this unfolds now. Obviously the Saudis understand that Pakistanis aren't happy. It is necessary to speak up for Kashmir. Pakistan won't compromise on Kashmir. I hope the misunderstanding can be resolved amicably. At the end of the day no party benefits from quarrel.

Obviously US, Israel and India do benefit from such disagreements. Wisdom should prevail for the greater good.

My hope is that Iran and Saudi Arabia can one day settle their disputes. This is the day when the Islamic nations will reap the benefits.

 

[Dalit]

People wishing for a war - you have no idea what war is.

If a bomb falls anywhere near 1 km from the folks wishing for war, they will quickly change their minds. It is Ok to be a key-board warrior, but do not wish for open war.

PS: Also, please do not hide being feb-27 (assuming - you intend to do that). Nothing happened on that day, one brave pilot chased something despite being asked to go cold, and got shot down. Time will tell if F-16 is shot down. But definitely, no SU-30 is shot down.

Stop lying through your teeth. Stop hijacking this discussion. The world witnessed what happened on the 27th. Your government is still defending the events that unfolded that day.

 

[Dalit]

Ok. What do you think Pak *achieved* on feb-27?
A) You got kashmir back?
B) You resolved Sir Creek?
C) You resolved Siachen?

Please let us know anything tangible that Pak achieved on feb-27?

If you think you humiliated India, then (to remind you) you gave a great humiliation on mumbai attacks, which most indians still remember.

PS: Last post on this topic.

Pakistan shut your gob permanently on the 27th. Papa America had to plead for Abhinandan's release on your part. You were too humiliated to approach Pakistan directly. Pakistan displayed through action to the entire world that India would be brought to justice if it crosses the redline.

All your assets including mighty Su-30 were called into question. Modi had to hide behind Rafale LOL Now Rafale is going to save Hindustan. Not my words, but Modi's words.

 

[StormBreaker]

People wishing for a war - you have no idea what war is.

If a bomb falls anywhere near 1 km from the folks wishing for war, they will quickly change their minds. It is Ok to be a key-board warrior, but do not wish for open war.

PS: Also, please do not hide being feb-27 (assuming - you intend to do that). Nothing happened on that day, one brave pilot chased something despite being asked to go cold, and got shot down. Time will tell if F-16 is shot down. But definitely, no SU-30 is shot down.

Hahaha,
Even F-16.net confirms MKI kill. Don’t be delusional and accept the defeat on Feb 27 you guys faced thanks to your orgasmic intents a day before to which you guys suddenly came between the zip by PAF pilots. As for F-16 down claims by your joker media, Please don’t drag me in a useless debate, This same media has termed pigeons as ISI agents

 

[Khan vilatey]

Ok. What do you think Pak *achieved* on feb-27?
A) You got kashmir back?
B) You resolved Sir Creek?
C) You resolved Siachen?

Please let us know anything tangible that Pak achieved on feb-27?

If you think you humiliated India, then (to remind you) you gave a great humiliation on mumbai attacks, which most indians still remember.

PS: Last post on this topic.

Humiliated India, proved that the IAF needs the Rafael to defend itself and that war with Pakistan is disastrous for India

kv

 

[SQ8]

but but Allah made Pakistan and we are Gods gift on earth......maybe not you (joking).... everyone is a gift on earth but some use this gift wisely some do not....yet still Pakistanis are Gods gift on earth. Please prove otherwise.



Arabs are usually incompetent at battle, they have lost their martial touch....I blame MTV. See the superior Saudi air force and army lose to the huti. The pan Arab forces failed in Syria.... even the uae after successfully using Winglong 2 drones lost from a position of strength to Turkey. Remember who shot down Israeli mirages ........Pakistanis



well, the best Pakistanis are overseas Pakistanis than come the ones in Pakistan. All jokes aside the overseas Pakistanis should get the vote!

Reading your post I saw myself from years ago bitter and young! Your post hit a nerve.

But then I realized that I am and always Will be Pakistani. Sure Pakistan is not perfect, it’s a work in progress but it is the only reason why I got the chances in life to succeed. If I was born in India I would be subjugated and like 90% of Muslims who are under the poverty line there would not have had the opportunities that were open to me in this down trodden Pakistan

I am grateful to Allah that I was born in Pakistan

Pakistan Zindabad

kv

Again - all self appeasements and baseless conclusions on Arabs by making strawman arguments but really nothing of substance.

 

[SQ8]

We are mistaken to believe that we are an exception. We have many ills as a society. Yes, we are also guilty of personality worship which we inherited from Subcontinent culture. However, we are hardly an exception. Nations and peoples around the world espouse role models. It is part of human nature. Although, Pakistanis can look to Turkey, Arabs and others who have impacted their culture and history.

I do agree that we Pakistanis have a long way to go in uniting properly. The various ethnic groups are a shambles. We have a lot of soul searching to do before we can call ourselves a unified country. There are many reasons for disagreements, but our attitude and behavior towards each other is the main culrpit.

This is the other fallacy in thinking which I point out - “Everyone pays bribes or the society is corrupt” is no excuse for one’s own ills. A rape in the Dominican Republic is not an excuse for me to sexually abuse my cousin as normal human desire.

 

[Dalit]

This is the other fallacy in thinking which I point out - “Everyone pays bribes or the society is corrupt” is no excuse for one’s own ills. A rape in the Dominican Republic is not an excuse for me to sexually abuse my cousin as normal human desire.

I have already pointed out the ills of the society. Yes, we got a long way to go.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

If I tell you the possible answer I have in mind, Many here will get pissed.

I have a feeling that some particular country/countries are pushing Pak to Bring KSA over Kashmir at OIC which I think is justifiable as KSA is a major member of OIC, However, that doesn’t serve any objective interest towards Kashmir cause.

OIC is nothing near UN, If UN doesn’t solve Kashmir, What is OIC ?

And if the reason is that the purpose of OIC was to create a common table for Muslim states to help each other in issues, Then I am sorry, It isn’t possible. Every state has their own interest.

Response from OIC is expected given the situation in Kashmir has been unilaterally changed by the Indian government. Further because of Balakot and Galwan.

I have read your posts here, but this one here is just a conspiracy theory.

So we are angry with KSA reluctance because of some third party? Who is that, Iran?

Iran themselves haven't come forward on Kashmir as they should have either.

I am glad finally Pakistan grew a backbone, and it is about time.

If war erupts, then every country not standed by us deserves our contempt.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Would it be a fair assessment to claim that KSA is pulling its support on Kashmir due to US insistence? The US is after all the main sponsor of Hindustan and has a lot of influence over KSA. The Saudi kingdom is essentially relying for its existence on US support. Has the US used its leverage to pressure Pakistan behind the scene and shore up its lackey India?

It is clear as daylight that KSA has favored India over Pakistan in the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan had to repay the 1 billion Saudi loan after Pakistan began insisting that Saudi Arabia play its role to garner support from the Islamic world on the Kashmir issue. As we know the loan was part of a wider package offered initially when the PTI government came into power. Our foreign reserves were dwindling and the trade deficit was in an unhealthy shape. It is also true that in May this year the Saudis suspended the oil credit facility which was also part of a wider package. Pakistan had to repay the loan in full. Tensions were already visible and building up.

Saudi and Pak relations deteriorated rapidly, starting in February when Saudis blatantly turned down a request by Pakistan to hold a meeting of Foreign Ministers of the OIC. Pakistan did not back down and kept insisting to use the OIC platform to pressure India on the Kashmir issue. Very important to note, it was at this crucial moment that Saudi Arabia decided to call in the loan.

It is no secret to KSA how Kashmir is at the core of Pakistan India conflict. The Kashmir conflict far outweighs any other issue on Pak agenda. Both Pakistan and India have fought multiple wars over Kashmir. Yet, the Saudis have ignored to pay any heed to such sensitivity. Shah Mahmood Qureshi, has continued to openly demand that KSA convene an OIC council meeting. Such a blatant move on Pakistan's part is too unprecedented. Pakistan usually has a habit of keeping a lid on things. By calling out KSA in such an open manner, Pakistan has defied their silenced modus operandi. Recently in a TV interview, Qureshi went as far as demanding an OIC meeting. Failure to do so would result in a meeting between like-minded countries such as Iran and Turkey who stand with Pakistan on the Kashmir conflict.

Where does this leave the 20 billion MoU signed earlier between KSA and Pakistan? This includes the 10 billion oil refinery deal at Gwadar. Can we assume that KSA and Pak relations have now become hostage to Indian and US meddling? Is KSA unwilling to take Pakistan's side in the Kashmir conflict? Let alone the wider conflict between Pak and China versus Hindustan. Was the Saudi assistance package a carrot from the beginning to kowtow US and Saudi demands?

As mentioned earlier, Saudi Arabia is dependent on the US, which is also applying covert pressure on Saudi Arabia to stay away from Chinese initiatives. Has KSA chosen a side by taking such a bold stance? After all picking a side in the Kashmir conflict is something that won't be forgotten that easily. I am a sceptic, but would it be fair to conclude that economic ties between the Saudis and India are also a driving factor in change of heart towards Pakistan?

Whatever the experts say, KSA has been less forthcoming to extend support to Pakistan's stance on Kashmir. KSA has traditionally supported Pakistan primarily due to Pakistan's close proximity with rival Iran. Pakistan is also home to world's largest Shiite minority outside of Iran. Surely KSA has taken all these factors into account, yet chosen the Indian side. Should Pakistan change its stance even if KSA decided to placate Pakistan's demands in other less meaningful ways? We know that the Saudis will come back because papa America will play its behind-the-scenes dubious role. Papa America cannot live with or without Pakistan.

How should Pakistan navigate these troubled waters? Should it apply a similar unconventional response by going through with a meeting between like-minded countries? After all, there should be zero compromise on Kashmir. Is it time for Pakistan to leave OIC? Some might argue that this will leave a void for India to fill. Yet, the grouping of like-minded countries is not a terrible idea in these uncertain times. In a day and age where new grand alliances are order of the day, such a move would be rewarding in the longer term?

The ONLY side the Saudis will be on is whoever the americans tell them to back.

 

[SQ8]

To not derail the thread with why current Pakistani attitudes are flawed in their basic ethical and moral premise, the simple reason in my opinion why KSA has parted ways is the consolidation of power by a quasi-reformist whose support lies in western powers along with the fall of the petrochemical market which no longer supports Pakistan’s freebie status.
Plenty of other medium or low level priorities that also compel them, but money is higher than any Pakistani strategic gain or dead Kashmiri.