has anyone met any vetrans from the kargil war? and heard from there experiences?

[Inception-06]

^^^ 155 is the magic number then! But anyway Musharaf got a lesson served. He realised that india has deeper pockets and can throw more metal on the battlefield. And then when he came to power he was all about economy and peace.

We could bring the same number of Artillary Guns in Position as India, we could prepared a better Air Defence .....everything was possible, but this operation was not a joint operation of the Pakistan Armed Forces, it was a Musharraf war-game !

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

Perfect !

 

[Bang Galore]

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

That, my friend, is a very naive idea of how the world operates. If what you say was feasible, why would the Pakistan stop? Talking about conquering is easy & cheap, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. India would simply have not stopped fighting & would most certainly have escalated. If Tololing ridge had not been taken back by the Indian army when it did, the GoI & IA were seriously contemplating horizontal escalation. What kept the conflict localised was that the IA became more confident & sure of taking down Pakistani positions after the capture of Tololing ridge.

As far as Kargil being any sort of victory for Pakistan, you simply have to see what has happened since then. Kargil-Dras sector is now manned throughout the year and the Indian position on Siachen has hardened because of Kargil. Pakistan lost & badly. Both militarily & diplomatically. Kargil changed how the world views the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan was seen as an irresponsible nation state from then onwards & international support completely dried up. It gave India 15 years (1999-2014) where India's position, both militarily & economically are much stronger than before. Where Vajpayee might have once considered some territorial concessions, today India will part with almost nothing (excepting minor changes at the LC). Even Musharraf, the architect of Kargil had come around to accepting this reality which is now the basis for any agreement in Kashmir (Musharraf-MMS plan).

No amount of consolation prizes given to oneself will change the facts.

 

[OrionHunter]

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

Yours is the most hilarious post I've read in a long long time!!

Kid, when you don't know squat about what actually happened at Kargil, it's better if you keep your fictional fairy tales to yourself as it makes you look awfully silly.

And please don't keep bringing up nuclear war into discussions. Nukes will never ever be used. That's if you've studied geopolitics and international relations which I'm sure you haven't seeing the nonsensical tripe you're spewing out here.

You need to grow up a little more before attempting to write stuff on military matters. Because it's serious stuff and not the fiction served up in blogs written by adolescents and your propaganda machine.

 

[Joeblow]

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

With all due respect, Nawaz Sharif probably saved Pakistan, Pakistan Army and perhaps your father's life. If they'd taken this any further, they would have found themselves in a full scale war without any support from anyone in the world. Ammunition and fuel would have dried in 2 or 3 weeks and you'd be dead in the water. Even Musharraf has said that during Kargil, Pakistan did not have the means to deliver a nuclear weapon.
So after a month or so of brutal war, thousands of lives lost and the inevitable peace treaty later, positions would have remained relative unchanged. While it is nice to imagine that this would have ended in glorious conquest of Kashmir, the reality is that it is almost destiny for our people to be divided by the LOC. If there was supposed to be different ending to this story, Pakistan would withdrawn its troops and infiltrators in 1948 and India would held the plebiscite. Neither side was willing to gamble and risk losing what they already had. So here we are.

The flaw in your thinking is reflected in your thinking that a nuclear armed India would have backed down because of the threat of nuclear attack from a smaller, weaker enemy knowing that there is no way for Pakistan to back up its threat considering that once you went down the nuclear road, India would definitely retaliate and wipe out Pakistan. If Sharif had made the statement you're suggesting India and the world would have laughed at him.

Your young yet and your life's probably been spent protected from the real world by loving parents. This might be as good a time as any to start thinking things through because once you start thinking things through and realize the logical consequence of escalating this war, you might realize that Sharif may have saved YOUR life too

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

My dad served in the War of Kargil. Back when I was born in 99, my dad was over at Kashmir. He often tells me a really great story of his. Well, he was in artillery and he was the 2IC of his unit, back then, he was a major. There was some Pakistani post (I don't remember where) somewhere. At night a group of 12 Indian Black Cats invaded the post and killed all the soldiers. My dad's post was the nearest to that post, The commander of that post called my dad and asked him to please do whatever he could. Now in order to do something, my dad needed permission from the unit commander who was at the central command at murree, but their reply could take a lot of time, even a day, and by then the indian troops could infiltrate much deeper. Now my dad had to make a choice here. He decided to attack them with everything he had. So he just gave the jawans the orders and the jawans fired several mortars (I think) on the post. It was nighttime. When the jawans stopped firing, it was almost morning. He left to see the post for himself on his jeep (which was not very far away). When he reached the post, he was amazed to see that by the grace of Allah, all 12 of the indian black cats had died. Later that day, The brigadier, who was incharge came to see my dad. My dad did not know what to expect. He could either be very proud( For him killing all those 12 black cats) or either be very angry for not following orders. Well, when he met my dad, he was extremely happy. He even met every single jawan and praised them for their bravery , Then he went and sow every single artillery gun, and hugged it.
Several days later Even Kiyani (who later became COAS) met my dad and his commander.

NSG or Black Cats were not involved in Kargil.

 

[think@best]

I remember the tense situation of Kargil War in SIALKOT.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

OK Mr. Special , then why are you asking people here.



He is Mr. Special and does not believe the words of our own army soldiers who were present on the kargil front.

--
he ment... he wanted better source than ptv..
as national channel... you will get all PRE PLANNED....
--
see that video... i saw it..
its more than reality it seems...
--
its not fault of soldires but the occasation and platform

 

[GURU DUTT]

we never hear about what it was like for them up in the mountains, we get the indian over-glorified bollywood esque version of tales but not the accounts from actual soldiers from our side, i want to know what they have to say rather then what the media or ISPR have to say.

i lost my childhood friend captain amit verma in kargil conflict we still have a garden/park named after him owr locallity where my son and friends paly soccer

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Nearly same I had heard from serving officer on very important position, while Kargil war was on and I was in Kashmir. Saw many things in cantonment area there which handled Nakyal sector it was very hostile area in those times.

Also he told me that they listen Indian soldiers crying for supplies in Siachen as our artillery had effectively blocked the supplies due to good position of our soldiers on forward positions and their guidance to artillery, 130mm was very effective there, also saw offering of Namaz-e-Janaza of some Shaheed soldiers.

--
wake upp..
siachen have other route too... for supplies...
we were bombing with bofors .. iAF...24/7
so be real...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

he he he sapne dekhne me kya buarai hai

well india will not give kashmir at any cost

ABV use to say : dhoodh mangoge to kheer denge per kashmir manga to cheer denge

naMo says : na dhoodh denge aur na hi kheer denge apki baar pange liye to lahore bhi cheen lenge

now brawado apart indian soldiers died in larger numbers as pakistani intruders were stiing on moutain hights and had fortified there postions well but despite that they were killed like rats and your supreme army was so ashamed that it refused to take back its dead and IA had to burry them with full rights ... and for that sin alone ... kahir jane do

Mods please close this thread it will bring trolling and sluggfest and i dint wanted to be rude but this guy enticed me please close this thread or many will get banned deu to this thread

 

[ExtraOdinary]

Major Vivek Gupta's family lived in our neighborhood. He was killed during the Tololing assault . We have a chowk named after him in Dehradun. The summer of '99, when we were kids enjoying our summer vacations, these men fought to keep our country safe. God bless them

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Although in the end we did not succeed, because of Nawaz Sharif, still Kargil was a great achievement for us. The way we infiltrated so deep in Indian territory without them even noticing and they only noticed when we opened fire on them. The thing was that only 5000 Pakistani soldiers were taking part in Kargil while 30000 indian soldiers were there and IAF was also there. There was an entire division of Pakistan Army on hold(Mangla). We could have most easily conquered Kashmir and Siachin, because we had them conquered. The plan after that was that Nawaz Sharif would make a speech something like this.
"The Kashmiri people with the help of pakistan Army have finally taken over the land which was rightfully their's and they have only fought for their freedom. We warn India against fighting anywhere else(for e.g Lahore, Sialkot) for that would be considered an act of war and Pakistan would use all it,s power including Nuclear Power to prevent that from Happening"
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it.

--
as you said its was .. infiltration...
if taking kashmir and siachine so easy you could not have waited 60yrs and still next 1000 yrs
if kashmiris was your side they could have hleped in 65 did they .. no
did they in 1999 .. no
will they in 3099 .. no
---
i accpet getting picks was "battle " won by PA/mujahid/ fredeom figter
but india won the WAR
we acidved our AIM not PA...
---
you yourself said your dad /PA was in confilct
and GOP denied any role of army in Kargil
which lead to denied bodies of those who die here...
------
Now India would never do anything because Kashmir was not so much important for india that they would risk their entire population for it
if this is your thinking ....god bless you

That, my friend, is a very naive idea of how the world operates. If what you say was feasible, why would the Pakistan stop? Talking about conquering is easy & cheap, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. India would simply have not stopped fighting & would most certainly have escalated. If Tololing ridge had not been taken back by the Indian army when it did, the GoI & IA were seriously contemplating horizontal escalation. What kept the conflict localised was that the IA became more confident & sure of taking down Pakistani positions after the capture of Tololing ridge.

As far as Kargil being any sort of victory for Pakistan, you simply have to see what has happened since then. Kargil-Dras sector is now manned throughout the year and the Indian position on Siachen has hardened because of Kargil. Pakistan lost & badly. Both militarily & diplomatically. Kargil changed how the world views the Kashmir conflict. Pakistan was seen as an irresponsible nation state from then onwards & international support completely dried up. It gave India 15 years (1999-2014) where India's position, both militarily & economically are much stronger than before. Where Vajpayee might have once considered some territorial concessions, today India will part with almost nothing (excepting minor changes at the LC). Even Musharraf, the architect of Kargil had come around to accepting this reality which is now the basis for any agreement in Kashmir (Musharraf-MMS plan).

No amount of consolation prizes given to oneself will change the facts.

--
in face.. Kargil made indian view strongest in last 60yrs which it could not do ..
Kargil show india a real lesson..
war preparedness ...militarilty...
Diplomacy ....
Indian media power... with all flwas they did their job
-------
PA wanted to make kashmmir internationl issue
which they did but
in favour of INDIA
--
some pak members dont understnad..
war is less about ground more about economy. diplomacy and opinions in world...
india learned in kargil
since then india did good job in all front ...
--

 

[tarrar]

we never hear about what it was like for them up in the mountains, we get the indian over-glorified bollywood esque version of tales but not the accounts from actual soldiers from our side, i want to know what they have to say rather then what the media or ISPR have to say.

Yes, he said we were winning & Indians had absolutely no idea where we were. Nawaz Sharif surrendered in front of US.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Yes, he said we were winning & Indians had absolutely no idea where we were. Nawaz Sharif surrendered in front of US.

---
can you tell me
wht would have happned if sharif did not listen to USA..that time?
and you won all peacks in kargil...does it mean wiing kashmir?
how much defence preparednes of PA/PN/PAF in that time?
how much foregin exhncgae nd oil resever had that time?
is there any other way avialbel to india to supply sichaine except NH1 going near by kargil hills?

 

[tarrar]

---
can you tell me
wht would have happned if sharif did not listen to USA..that time?
and you won all peacks in kargil...does it mean wiing kashmir?
how much defence preparednes of PA/PN/PAF in that time?
how much foregin exhncgae nd oil resever had that time?
is there any other way avialbel to india to supply sichaine except NH1 going near by kargil hills?

The fact is Pakistan was winning & everything was well planned. Had Pakistan taken over everything then we would had seen huge Indian disco, well it was already going on, India went crying & begging to US.