has anyone met any vetrans from the kargil war? and heard from there experiences?

[AshishDelhi]

35% lol the whole of Kashmir should belong to Pakistan as majority of Kashmiris as you claim is against the occupation so we are happy even with 1% as whole of Kashmir should have been your territory but we will continue to occupy it by force.


Read the geography of Kashmir,we control your rivers in yours occupied land and i love when Pakistanis whine when we make Dams and electricity on these rivers,so you should be greatful to India for showing mercy or else millions will die of droughts.

Pakistan can never be a good neighbour. Only solution to get rid of them is to create a big difference between us and them.

 

[jaunty]

An army which calls it soldiers as terrorists, doesn't accept their dead bodies and doesn't care about wounded soldiers, stands no chance against India.

It was very sad indeed!

 

[13 kumaon]

Pakistan can never be a good neighbour. Only solution to get rid of them is to create a big difference between us and them.

dude we don't have to do anything to rid off them as this has been done by Pakistanis funny thing is pakistanis(TTP) is blowing their army their navy and its their destiny to be screwed by themselves ex--- East Pakistan/Bangladesh.

 

[Areesh]

Yeah, it wasn't very hilarious for the guys sitting on the mountains when they realized there was no way they'd be able to get back. Anyways your army has a great tradition of giving you the right data so we can all be sure of it.

Yawn. Doesn't prove anything. And certainly not the 4k casualty figure.

But you didn't accept dead bodies of your soldiers..you said those were terrorists and we had to cremate them. Musharraf lied. Nawaz lied and now you.

We accepted the dead bodies of all of our soldiers. Yeah we didn't accept bodies of a few militants which you buried later with full honors thinking them to b regular soldiers.
We are thankful to you for this gesture.

35% lol the whole of Kashmir should belong to Pakistan as majority of Kashmiris as you claim is against the occupation so we are happy even with 1% as whole of Kashmir should have been your territory but we will continue to occupy it by force.

Good that you are happy that 35% of your atoot ang is with us. this gesture is appreciable.

Read the geography of Kashmir,we control your rivers in yours occupied land and i love when Pakistanis whine when we make Dams and electricity on these rivers,so you should be greatful to India for showing mercy or else millions will die of droughts.

And you are obliged to give us water of those rivers according to Indus water treaty. You have no other choice. You just can't back out of bilateral agreements. So nothing to be grateful here.

Read how P.A disowned the bodies of N.L.I soldiers as they were shias and why Shias of Kargil region support indian army and even Modi

Bul;lsh!t. Soldiers of NLI Were given highest awards and NLI Was made part of regular infantry after the war to appreciate the hell that they brought on our enemy. Today NLI is proudly a part of Pakistan with Shias of GB defending their homeland from Siachen to Kargil to anywhere else.

And don't share stupid Indians sources with me when you don't accept the Indians source that I give you. You are a delusional fanboy and I have no issues with you living in delusions. Keep living in them. Don't waste my precious time.

 

[ares]

And I used the word post. And yes I know the difference between a peak and a ridge. I hope you also know the difference between a peak and a post. As for your claim that these are ridges of the same peak then I won't comment on that. Since I a not in a position to approve or disapprove it. I won't believe it either since you have provided no proof to support this idea that all these ridges belong to one single peak. Good that you accepted that we have Indian posts. Many of your compatriots are not aware of such realities.

And I had used the word 'peak' in my first post, then what the hell were you "forced to correct"

I am very careful with the words I use. As far proving that these ridges belong to the same peak is nonsensical query?
Is it possible to control the ridge, without control peak itself?

What do you imagine Pakistan controls Saddle Ridge , Bunker Ridge ,Dhalunag but the peak of these ridges is not point 5353 are some other peaks which are Indian control..is that even possible??

Those 9000 casualties were from both the eastern and the western sectors. They consisted deaths of all 3 services. And also included casualties at the hand of Mukti Bahni terrorists. I hope you have enough IQ to understand the difference between a limited war around a few weeks and a full fledged war spanned over a border of thousands of kilometers. And not to forget the insurgency. And about POW. I hope I don't need to explain the difference between a soldier and a civilian government servant. Since those at least 50% of those 93000 consisted of those government servants. For you it might be easy to accept such figures. It is the feelings of delusion and grandeur that lead you to such beliefs. But sorry. Such figures is too non factual to believe into for us.

These are casualties suffered by Pakistan with in 14 days, after the official war was declared on both fronts. and Not half 93000 POW were civil servants, not even close.

"Among the POWs there were 56998 armed forces regulars,18287 para military persons and 17376 civilians including 4616 police and 1628 civilian government servants, 3963 others including over 6000 women and children.
http://thejournalofbusiness.org/index.php/site/article/viewFile/424/361 "

75285 Combatants were there and only 18287 civilians. That makes a ratio of 81 % armed forces and paramilitary forces and only 19% Civilians including 4616 police.

Besides it is your prime minister who claims these figures, we would rather believe him than you.
Besides can you tell me exact number of casualties, you believe Pakistan suffered?

It is better to be a moron than to be a murderer like in your case. Nawaz in his political animosity with Musharraf presented this outrageous figure. Ask him today. He would deny and laugh at you. That is politics dear. As for being moron since we elected a moron. Then you are a nation of murderers, r@pists and criminals since you have elected someone like Modi as your PM and a great percentage of your parliament consists of people who have cases of murder, r@pe etc against them. I hope you got my point.

PS: There was no need to present the link for nawaz statement. We know what he said and nobody denied that idiotic statement here. No need to go over smart. You always lose the plot when you try to be over smart.

You believe, your prime minister is a Moron and ours is a murderer, NOT US.

So we really don't care your opinion on our prime minster, for you are the kind of people, who will call their own Prime minister moron and then elect him into power for the third time.

Hilarious explanation. But no 4k never even participated in the Karigl war so there were no chances of so many getting killed. To get killed you need to participate in a war you know.

Haha, Entire NLI brigade, plus mujahedeen, plus certain elements of SSG participated in Kargil war totaling 5000.

 

[Areesh]

And I had used the word 'peak' in my first post, then what the hell were you "forced to correct"

The fact that we have only one post. Remember you are yet to prove that these ridges belong to one single peak.

I am very careful with the words I use. As far proving that these ridges belong to the same peak is nonsensical query?

So a claim that you made out of nowhere. And when we ask you to prove it. It become nonsensical.

Is it possible to control the ridge, without control peak itself?

This is stupid. How does that prove that all the 6 ridges or posts belonged to a single peak. Yes. A post can be control without control on the peak. It looks like your guess work and you have no concrete proof with you for your claim.

By the way Dhalunag which according to you is part of Peak 5353 wasn't even part of the Kargil operations according to your ex army chief. May be you know better than him or may be he was trying to hide something. In any case your guesswork is unacceptable.

What do you imagine Pakistan controls Saddle Ridge , Bunker Ridge ,Dhalunag but the peak of these ridges is not point 5353 are some other peaks which are Indian control..is that even possible??

Yes. It is you who himself assumed that all of them are ridges. Some might be ridge other might not be ridges but simple posts. Whatever the case it is. It is all guesswork from you and I would surely love to see the prove that all the 5 posts are ridges and all of them belong to one single peak 5353.

These are casualties suffered by Pakistan with in 14 days, after the official war was declared on both fronts.

Yeah I know. Just proves my point.

Not half 93000 POW were civil servants, not even close.

This not even close thing is debateable. And can be a figment of imagination of a Bharati fanboy. According to dawn:

The fact is that the total strength of the Pakistan army troops posted in East Pakistan as of December 16, 1971, was only about 34,000. With the addition of Rangers, scouts, militia and civil police, the total strength of personnel deployed to defend East Pakistan was only 45,000.

Pakistani PoWs: correct figure - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

There is 50% figure for you. Including paramilitary and police it is 50%. Not even close? Really?

By the way the source you have used also quote some Chopra guy who seems to be a Bharati. Not credible enough in my opinion.

Besides it is your prime minister who claims these figures, we would rather believe him than you.

Good. I am not forcing you to not believe it either. Just don't present it as a fact to us. Keep your believes to yourself. Your delusions are meant for you. Not for us.

Besides can you tell me exact number of casualties, you believe Pakistan suffered?

I believe at most 453 soldiers of my army were martyred in that war as compared to your 527 casualties.

You believe, your prime minister is a Moron and ours is a murderer, NOT US.

Yeah you guys live in your delusions. One major reason why most of your parliament has criminal cases against it.

So we really don't care your opinion on our prime minster, for you are the kind of people, who will call their own Prime minister moron and then elect him into power for the third time.

And I don't care about your opinion about us. Unless you present it to attack us.

Haha, Entire NLI brigade, plus mujahedeen, plus certain elements of SSG participated in Kargil war totaling 5000.

Not really. Never ever. We didn't lose 4k soldiers. I am again asking you keep your believes to yourself. Don't force them on us. You are free to remain in your lala land.

 

[ares]

The fact that we have only one post. Remember you are yet to prove that these ridges belong to one single peak.

Are you altering my words, to claim you are right, I used the word 'peak'.

P.S Pakistan just occupies one peak in Kargil, that too surrounded by Indian peaks on all the sides..and It lost hundreds and thousands (4000 as per your Prime minister) soldiers to gain that.

To which you replied

Like always I am being forced to correct you. We have at most 6 and at least 4 Indian posts in the Kargil region.

You automatically changed 'peak' to posts..where as I made no such claim..then again, why were you forced to correct me?

So a claim that you made out of nowhere. And when we ask you to prove it. It become nonsensical.


This is stupid. How does that prove that all the 6 ridges or posts belonged to a single peak. Yes. A post can be control without control on the peak. It looks like your guess work and you have no concrete proof with you for your claim.

Because it is common sense it is not possible to control ridge or lower post unless , you have the overlooking peak in your control. and vice versa. If one has the control underlying ridges and post, the enemy can not maintain control the peak, as your supply lines to the peak are choked.

As far as spoon feeding you, you can do you own research, and the fact is there is only peak here i.e point 5353.

By the way Dhalunag which according to you is part of Peak 5353 wasn't even part of the Kargil operations according to your ex army chief. May be you know better than him or may be he was trying to hide something. In any case your guesswork is unacceptable.

To what are you referring too here?

Yes. It is you who himself assumed that all of them are ridges. Some might be ridge other might not be ridges but simple posts. Whatever the case it is. It is all guesswork from you and I would surely love to see the prove that all the 5 posts are ridges and all of them belong to one single peak 5353.

the fact is there is the only peak here i.e point 5353 in Pakistani control

Yeah I know. Just proves my point.



This not even close thing is debateable. And can be a figment of imagination of a Bharati fanboy. According to dawn:


Pakistani PoWs: correct figure - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

There is 50% figure for you. Including paramilitary and police it is 50%. Not even close? Really?

By the way the source you have used also quote some Chopra guy who seems to be a Bharati. Not credible enough in my opinion.

The Pakistani author of the research paper has taken these numbers From
Surendra Chopra's book "Post Simla Indo-Pakistan Relation: Confrontation to De-escalation"
are corrected down to a single digit, where as Dawn's is just rounded of its numbers, where did Dawn get it numbers from?

Good. I am not forcing you to not believe it either. Just don't present it as a fact to us. Keep your believes to yourself. Your delusions are meant for you. Not for us.

They are not my delusions, these the facts given the highest official in your country. They are your burden to disprove not mine to prove.

I believe at most 453 soldiers of my army were martyred in that war as compared to your 527 casualties.

Why do you believe that, because you army says so?
But they were the ones claiming, not a single Pakistani soldiers is in kargil, they are all Mujahideen, so how all of a sudden they have 453 dead soldiers? Just shows the credibility of your army's claims!!

BTW what about you General in Command claims, that Pakistan lost only 353 soldiers, was he lying too?

Yeah you guys live in your delusions. One major reason why most of your parliament has criminal cases against it.

Whatever? Atleast we dont believe we have elected a Moron into office?

And I don't care about your opinion about us. Unless you present it to attack us.


Not really. Never ever. We didn't lose 4k soldiers. I am again asking you keep your believes to yourself. Don't force them on us. You are free to remain in your lala land.

Well you are free to choose what ever you believe, we have you prime minister statement to back us, you have nothing to counter it with. Your army chief is giving a different number, you army websites are giving different, and your prime minister different!!

 

[Areesh]

Are you altering my words, to claim you are right, I used the word 'peak'.

Yes you used the word "peak". But it was important to explain your post since it was giving an
expression that there is only one post that we have. This isn't the case as I showed and this is where the correction comes in.

You automatically changed 'peak' to posts..where as I made no such claim..then again, why were you forced to correct me?

Explained above.

Because it is common sense it is not possible to control ridge or lower post unless , you have the overlooking peak in your control. and vice versa. If one has the control underlying ridges and post, the enemy can not maintain control the peak, as your supply lines to the peak are choked.

It is your guess work that you are naming as common sense. There are examples where passes and lower grounds being controlled by one army and the higher ground and peaks being controlled by others. We control Gyong La pass in Siachen while you occupy several peaks around that pass. This is just your guess that all the 5 posts are located in the ridges and all of them belong to a single peak. This is all assumptions.

As far as spoon feeding you, you can do you own research, and the fact is there is only peak here i.e point 5353.

Yes one peak and some other posts which might be located in different areas of Kargil sector.

To what are you referring too here?

This part:

"“Dalu Nag is certainly in the Kargil sector, but it has a history of its own since the 1980s. It has nothing to do with Kargil operations. Some parts of Dalu Nag may have been occupied by them at that time,” former army chief Ved Prakash Malik told Tehelka."

Tehelka - The People's Paper

While you assumed Dalu Nag to be a ridge of peak 5353 your army chief believes that has nothing to do with whole Kargil war. So either you know more than him or either he was trying to hide anything. In any case your assumptions about all the posts being ridges and these ridges being part of point 5353 are flawed.

the fact is there is the only peak here i.e point 5353 in Pakistani control

Already explained above. One peak and several ridges and posts.

The Pakistani author of the research paper has taken these numbers From
Surendra Chopra's book "Post Simla Indo-Pakistan Relation: Confrontation to De-escalation"
are corrected down to a single digit, where as Dawn's is just rounded of its numbers, where did Dawn get it numbers from?

Doesn't matter. Already showed you a different figure and since your source is a bharati. It is not acceptable for me. At least I showed you a source which you guys use many times. Told you 50% were civil servants.

They are not my delusions, these the facts given the highest official in your country. They are your burden to disprove not mine to prove.

I have already disapproved them. You just need the same common sense that you are using to make all Pakistani posts in Kargil to be in the ridges and all ridges to be part of point 5353.

Why do you believe that, because you army says so?

Yes

But they were the ones claiming, not a single Pakistani soldiers is in kargil, they are all Mujahideen, so how all of a sudden they have 453 dead soldiers? Just shows the credibility of your army's claims!!

So you assumed 4k soldiers were killed because of that. Anyways it was part of the military plan to not to show that regular army troops were involved . To avoid international diplomatic pressure. Nothing wrong in admitting military presence later since their was nothing to be ashamed of. It was a good military plan but required more elaboration and planning on our side. Anyways there is nothing wrong to admit our role in that war. We should own it and we did.

BTW what about you General in Command claims, that Pakistan lost only 353 soldiers, was he lying too?

Nothing new here either. In different wars there are different casualty figures. At most our casualties were 453. Not 4000. If you want to accept 353 figure then I have no issues with that either.

Whatever? Atleast we dont believe we have elected a Moron into office?

Yeah since you vote something worst into power. Those criminal cases against your parliamentarians were filed by Indians after all.

Well you are free to choose what ever you believe, we have you prime minister statement to back us, you have nothing to counter it with.

Countered it already. Just use the same common sense that you are using for our posts in Kargil sector.

Your army chief is giving a different number, you army websites are giving different, and your prime minister different!!

Already explained earlier.

 

[k_arura]

we never hear about what it was like for them up in the mountains, we get the indian over-glorified bollywood esque version of tales but not the accounts from actual soldiers from our side, i want to know what they have to say rather then what the media or ISPR have to say.

Not be mean spirited or skunk you mean the heroes that you initially disowned? It was quite tacky to honor them later on away from the prying eyes!

 

[Burhan Wani]

My dad served in the War of Kargil. Back when I was born in 99, my dad was over at Kashmir. He often tells me a really great story of his. Well, he was in artillery and he was the 2IC of his unit, back then, he was a major. There was some Pakistani post (I don't remember where) somewhere. At night a group of 12 Indian Black Cats invaded the post and killed all the soldiers. My dad's post was the nearest to that post, The commander of that post called my dad and asked him to please do whatever he could. Now in order to do something, my dad needed permission from the unit commander who was at the central command at murree, but their reply could take a lot of time, even a day, and by then the indian troops could infiltrate much deeper. Now my dad had to make a choice here. He decided to attack them with everything he had. So he just gave the jawans the orders and the jawans fired several mortars (I think) on the post. It was nighttime. When the jawans stopped firing, it was almost morning. He left to see the post for himself on his jeep (which was not very far away). When he reached the post, he was amazed to see that by the grace of Allah, all 12 of the indian black cats had died. Later that day, The brigadier, who was incharge came to see my dad. My dad did not know what to expect. He could either be very proud( For him killing all those 12 black cats) or either be very angry for not following orders. Well, when he met my dad, he was extremely happy. He even met every single jawan and praised them for their bravery , Then he went and sow every single artillery gun, and hugged it.
Several days later Even Kiyani (who later became COAS) met my dad and his commander.

We are proud on him.