Hamas miscalculation?

[LegionnairE]

View attachment 1020710

 

[mike2000 is back]

This is factually incorrect.

They changed their position when their charter changed in 2017.

But Hamas leadership has said time and time again even recently that is their aim and objective and that they aim to establish a state of permanent war on Israel's border. Funny thing is they dont realise that this actually suits Israel since they have by far the strongest military power, especially right wing government like the current Israeli government who was already so unpopular that they were almost even in danger of being toppled by popular uprising or through elections. This Hamas attack has actually silenced any Israeli liberal/leftist and others who were once proving for a diplomatic solution or even softer stance on Palestine. Lol Hamas hasn't done any good for Gaza since fighting and defeating through PLO. Things have actually gotten even worse. So I will say their methods is actually the wrong one then.

Anyway, we can talk all we want. But Israel is determined to carry on their operations to fruition. Then things will return to normal once they are done and we will all move on to another news as always until another time things glare up again
I think the main question now is of Israel does get rid of Hamas in Gaza then what? That's the main question. Will they govern Gaza in place of Hamas? Or will they pull out and see who will fill Hamas vacuum? I think governing Gaza directly will be a huge mistake . Since they will have to be responsible for everything there directly and get the blame for stuffs that goes wrong. Looking at things from their perspective, I actually think Letting Hamas govern Gaza like they did in the past is the best solution for them (not for Gazans though). Since Israel can keep justifying its striking of the territory on Hamas provocations and attacks . If they lose the Hamas boogeyman then they will have difficulties justifying any operations and major military actions in Gaza. Plus hamas can bare the responsibilities of Gaza governance. That's my take.

 

[Bilal9]

Hamas plan would have never succeed if Israel didn't wanted it to be, they allowed it to happen so they can get green light for there operation inside gaza.

Yes - the endgame is to rid gaza completely of Palestinians under any pretext, and they planned this one.

Gaza (around the City) is fertile, has a port and I understand even has tremendous underground oil reserves.

Perfect for setting up Kibbutzes and new settler communities.

Although looks like their plan may not succeed now.

 

[mike2000 is back]

You forgot the Palestinian chicken coop called West Bank which recognizes Israel. Would you like to live there as a Palestinian.

If I was Palestinian then definitely yes I will prefer to live there than in Gaza ANYDAY. No thinking required.

 

[imadul]

Zionist entity has totally trampled Palestinians, and they have done that with arrogant relish. Their next target will be west Bank with or without any incursion from the west Bank.

Many of us are pragmatic bordering agnosticism, but I believe, God's Hand will come out.

When the power of the holy people will be completely gone then it shall be.
Book of Daniel.
@Foinikas
@Zarvan
@Bilal9
@AZADPAKISTAN2009
@HAIDER
@SaadH
@313ghazi
@waz
@mike2000 is back

 

[Foinikas]

Zionist entity has totally trampled Palestinians, and they have done that with arrogant relish. Their next target will be west Bank with or without any incursion from the west Bank.

Many of us are pragmatic bordering agnosticism, but I believe, God's Hand will come out.

When the power of the holy people will be completely gone then it shall be.
Book of Daniel.
@Foinikas
@Zarvan
@Bilal9
@AZADPAKISTAN2009
@HAIDER
@SaadH
@313ghazi
@waz
@mike2000 is back

Stop trying to interprete prophecies.

Afghanistan taliban are not moderate, but they are the product of their centuries old tribal system. Sometimes nature keeps few insane ppl to down insanely powerful super powers.

Taliban didn't down any superpowers,they only defeated the incompetent Afghan government

 

[Rollno21]

Hamas came in to being when no peaceful solution was found, no Palestinian state was established, Israel kept breaking International law, committing genocides, terrorism on Palestinian land, and expanding settlements. Isnt it obvious that Israel also doesn't want a settlement because they want to capture more land and expand their state.

You must read, in 1937 it was first proposed to give isreal a small portion of the land and Palestine holding majority land as two separate states, which was rejected by Palestine and Arabs. Then in 1947 there was another proposal with little more land added for isreal but still Palestine holding the bigger landmass again that too was rejected by Palestine and Arabs. Every time there was rejection or war isreal occupied more land. Palestine should have accepted the the proposed two state solution in 1937.

 

[delta2]

Stop trying to interprete prophecies.


Taliban didn't down any superpowers,they only defeated the incompetent Afghan government

The Taliban resisted the US occupation. This, coupled with extreme corruption by the puppet regimes installed by the occupying forces, increased the costs and reduced the benefits of the continuous military presence. The US also had plans for Ukraine and since the Russian invasion was expected, the US decided not to risk dealing with Russian support to the Taliban. Had the USA remained in Afghanistan during the Ukraine war, the USAF would have begun to lose its aircraft in Afghanistan.

 

[Foinikas]

The Taliban resisted the US occupation. This, coupled with extreme corruption by the puppet regimes installed by the occupying forces, increased the costs and reduced the benefits of the continuous military presence. The US also had plans for Ukraine and since the Russian invasion was expected, the US decided not to risk dealing with Russian support to the Taliban. Had the USA remained in Afghanistan during the Ukraine war, the USAF would have begun to lose its aircraft in Afghanistan.

Resisted how? They were bombed to pieces and kicked out of the country to Pakistani tribal areas and places nobody cares to go.

 

[delta2]

Resisted how? They were bombed to pieces and kicked out of the country to Pakistani tribal areas and places nobody cares to go.

By forming the government again as the winning side.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

It seems to me like people forget that hamas has never hide the fact that they are a radical militant group who public and stated aim is to destroy Israel and that they would NEVER RECOGNISE OR NEGOTIATE WITH ISRAEL and that their aim is to destroy them and claim back all the lost territory. It seems to me like people often forget this fact as well. So if some people think a negotiated settlement is the solution then Hamas is out of the picture and shouldn't even be considered in this regard .
Hamas stated aim is a military solution to the crisis. So if military solution is the goal then the current Israel Hamas war is the desired and reasonable aim. The only th

Why do you expect Palestinians to live in a chicken coop. Would you like English people or any other people to accept such conditions imposed on them. Humans are born in freedom and no government has the right to take that away.

 

[imadul]

Stop trying to interprete prophecies.

We shall see

 

[Vikramaditya-I]

It's never about militant group OR country,, it's about narrative and resistance

Multiple civilizations have collapsed incans, Mayans, etc where are they?
What about the Maori and aborigines etc under constant occupation, forced to.love with their occupier

So resistance for the Palestinians isn't about outright victory in one military campaign or action


It's about ensuring peace without victory doesn't occur
It's about ensuring hatred doesn't end, this is very important

What the enemy wants us PEACE whilst continuing a occupation

Most people would give up


But Muslims can't not just because if the strength of faith

It's because the population numbers and demographics FAVOUR THE PALESTINIANS, so one way or the other across Gaza, Israel and the west bank the Jews will be the minority and increasingly so over the coming years

The average age of the Palestinians is 19 they are heading towards a population dividend whilst the Jews at 43 are waaay past it


So if you know you will have the population majority, then accepting peace whilst occupation goes on is defeat

Instead you need to take the peace from the Jews, in Israel and the world, ensure life in Israel isnt life

YES the Palestinians will suffer, but they suffer anyway

Firing rockets sure ensures peace. The deal Palestinians want is the ol' river to sea, they want everything. Even the Arabs got tired, this is their last stand to get Arab support and it's still muted. Palestinians are already the Majority, it's not going to ensure anything. Israel is going to be there, it has the money, support, muscle and brains. Not to mention the fertility rate among the Jewish population is surprisingly higher than their Arab counterparts in Israel.

But sure, people can dream that 50-100-200 years from now something will happen.

You Forget Taliban

The Taliban have indeed.

Wrong analogy. The Americans simply left because their primary purpose was fulfilled. Getting OBL and dismantling AQ was the purpose of the invasion. Post 2011 their stay was just unnecessary. Taliban could try another 9/11 and see how fast they get dismantled. Talibs are not even a major fighting force like PIJ or Hamas. Corrupt and inefficient leadership is the reason Afg mil was in disarray and ended up in eventual defeat.

I don't know, are you comparing Afg mil to IDF or US Army to IDF? Or are you comparing IDF vs PIJ, Hamas as equivalent to Talib vs US? All analogy are wrong.

 

[epebble]

Calculations don't mean much, what matters is final result. In that respect, though the costs are high, Hamas has achieved some results: By making Israel insecure, immigration into Israel will be reduced (or may even be negative due to emigration) and hence pressure to build new settlements on Palestinian lands will go down. This is a major win as increasing growth of settlements was a major issue of contention. Ill-treatment of Palestinians by Israel will also attract greater attention from the world leading to Israel attempting to mend its ways. In terms of benefits to Israel, it shows them that lowering their guard even briefly due to their internal political turmoil has catastrophic consequences. In total, though the costs are high for both sides, the war is not entirely without benefits for either side.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

During all of the Crusade wars , the inhabitants of the local city were murdered brutally
What we see in Gaza is no different

Only difference is , it is allowed for unknown reason and all the convention of war are forgotten
For any Human , who believes in good and afterlife , such images of war are troublesome

I can't say who won or lost , who gained or not , to me Humanity Lost all credibility

Both group try to show their own victims. The images from Gaza are quite troubling for most people with logic , such images are painful

It's is too bad this is still allowed to continue