HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[Dash]

@Dash
I guess this is where you wanted me to post it.

Thanks levi

[Failed is"Oscar, post: 8447669, member: 14956"]I absolutely have rights. You are on a Pakistani forum that allows you free speech. There is nothing like that even remotely close in an Indian platform. Then, I have clearly laid out why the program has failed and the reasons behind it. You are unable to deal with, then stop posting on our forum and leave.[/QUOTE]

Failed is only according to you, but NOT for Indian research and analysis they will keep trying until they realize the genious of Thomas Alva Edison. The kick always comes from the bottom.

But tell me if it has failed and I will show you it gas not. You will stumble upon something good which you haven't so far.

 

[Centurion2016]

The Indians have been license assemblying fighters since the 1970s

This last 12 months they inducted 15 brand new SU30MKI with majority indian sourced parts. Its taken over decade to get 15 a year but they did so.

With that in mind I think by 2020 THE tejas can roll out at 12-16 planes per year.

What I really want to see is this beauty

 

[Levina]

Thanks levi

[Failed is"Oscar, post: 8447669, member: 14956"]I absolutely have rights. You are on a Pakistani forum that allows you free speech. There is nothing like that even remotely close in an Indian platform. Then, I have clearly laid out why the program has failed and the reasons behind it. You are unable to deal with, then stop posting on our forum and leave.

Failed is only according to you, but NOT for Indian research and analysis they will keep trying until they realize the genious of Thomas Alva Edison. The kick always comes from the bottom.

But tell me if it has failed and I will show you it gas not. You will stumble upon something good which you haven't so far.

@Dash
You have not quoted @Oscar properly.
Lol

 

[SQ8]

Thanks levi

[Failed is"Oscar, post: 8447669, member: 14956"]I absolutely have rights. You are on a Pakistani forum that allows you free speech. There is nothing like that even remotely close in an Indian platform. Then, I have clearly laid out why the program has failed and the reasons behind it. You are unable to deal with, then stop posting on our forum and leave.

Failed is only according to you, but NOT for Indian research and analysis they will keep trying until they realize the genious of Thomas Alva Edison. The kick always comes from the bottom.

But tell me if it has failed and I will show you it gas not. You will stumble upon something good which you haven't so far.[/QUOTE]

Again, this particular point I have ALREADY mentioned countless times in terms of the ancillary benefits of the program.
But, as the objective of delivering a Mig-21 replacement to the IAF within a justifiable timeframe and where its relevancy to the IAF would be beyond just a token "purchase" of a domestic product; It has failed.

The LCA program is the failure. Yes, it has had successes within that failure. But at the end, you have a jet(nothing wrong with the aerodynamics or concept of it) that has currently many shortcomings that keep it from being capable of front line service including glaring ones regarding maintenance processes.
So after a first flight in 2001 we have a jet that still has performance and manufacturing kinks to work out in its original spec which the end user doesn't really want in the first place, and the newer spec isnt to see the light of day till 2021. Well, I am very hard pressed to find ANYTHING that defines the LCA program or even the Tejas fighter(not the design or concept but as a whole product) a partial(if the complete term is too acerbic) failure.

Even the Northrop F-20 Tigershark, a fighter that for all reports, for all records was a great jet in terms of everything it did; is defined as a failure by aviation experts simply because it never sold and it never found a customer. Here is a case of a fighter that despite its promising design and concept; isnt ready yet due to various issues of mismanagement in the program from both the IAF and those making the aircraft.
If there is a product that does not do "as advertised" after 15 years since it first flew and based on all public and private reports wont do "as advertised" for another couple of years; then it would require a ton of salt to get any aviation expert besides those with nationalist or vested(foreign subcontractors, etc) motivations to call it a success.

 

[Centurion2016]

I agree with OSCARs point............ Tejas will remain a potential failure until the end user ie IAF has inducted fully doctrinised and incorporated the plane into the air force.

And yes indian ability to mass produce and infrastructure support a fleet of 80 -100 fighters like tejas is unproven

So lets see what happens.

" ONE BLESSING IN DISGUISE"

"IF Tejas does FAIL OSCAR "

then india could follow the sinopak route of thunder AND START mass license assembly with TOT of the Gipen OR F16/V

SO THERE ARE OPTIONS OPEN TO india that its neighbiours could not harbour

 

[jha]

Whats LSA ?

 

[R!CK]

Wow, you use to compare LCA to J-10. . Anyway, THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS there are 100 operational JF-17 BLOCK II versus 2 friggin LCA MARK 1, which I am not even sure is fully weaponized. By the time you have a squadron, there will be a BLOCK III with AESA and WS-13E.

Just to clear the air, I don't see anyone comparing J10 so maybe it's better to read the topic before commenting?

Secondly, please find out the date when the 100th JF-17 Block II was rolled out. There isn't even 50 block II JF-17 produced yet.

On topic, both Tejas and Thunder are successful projects in their own ways. Let's hope the future remains bright for them both.

How many percent are Indian parts? We can make the whole SU-30 including the engines. Yours is just screwdriver and sticker tech.

I don't even want to bring up the production issues of you MKI assembly.
Shall will can may, get it done first, then start talking. The reality is, there are 2 half baked LCA vs 100 block II JF-17 and what makes you think it will stay static?

We have AESA tech and WS-13E is ready. Its now a matter of whether we wanna screw up India and upgrade all those block IIs to block IIIs.

Again this thead is regarding LCA Tejas and not Chinese engines and AESA radar which surprisingly even PAF is not serious about integrating on JF-17. So firstly, find out the actual no. of JF-17 block II in service and give more attention to the thread title so you can save ur time.

Good day!

 

[kaykay]

How many percent are Indian parts? We can make the whole SU-30 including the engines. Yours is just screwdriver and sticker tech.

I don't even want to bring up the production issues of you MKI assembly.
Shall will can may, get it done first, then start talking. The reality is, there are 2 half baked LCA vs 100 block II JF-17 and what makes you think it will stay static?

We have AESA tech and WS-13E is ready. Its now a matter of whether we wanna screw up India and upgrade all those block IIs to block IIIs.

We produce Su-30MKI from raw metal stage.....enough says!! @Abingdonboy @anant_s

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Compared to where India was in 1983 when we launched Tejas ; Indian Aerospace Capabilities
have come a LONG way

And the Best part is that given the ecosystem that we have created ; the foundations
that we have laid ; the knowledge and experience gained will STAND in good stead for us

We have come a long way and we will go even further

Fortunately There is NO last date or deadline for achieving technological success

If we only go by the time taken ; then No country would ever try to do something on its own
because of the fear that It would not be completed in so much time

Our Space programme is a glorious example of perseverance

We started that in the decade of fifties -- where we have reached now

The Tejas has definitely suffered in terms of Timelines
What we have achieved today could have been done earlier

But we have learnt so much from it

The Kaveri ENGINE programme is also supposed to be a FAILURE

But Recently the French gave us some really good News

They said that SEVENTY percent work is completed

So that is 70 percent success

If we fear failure ; we will never do anything on our own

 

[Han Patriot]

Just to clear the air, I don't see anyone comparing J10 so maybe it's better to read the topic before commenting?

Secondly, please find out the date when the 100th JF-17 Block II was rolled out. There isn't even 50 block II JF-17 produced yet.

On topic, both Tejas and Thunder are successful projects in their own ways. Let's hope the future remains bright for them both.




Again this thead is regarding LCA Tejas and not Chinese engines and AESA radar which surprisingly even PAF is not serious about integrating on JF-17. So firstly, find out the actual no. of JF-17 block II in service and give more attention to the thread title so you can save ur time.

Good day!

Well, the favourite Indian source, wikipedia is wrong then. So let's assume 50 JF-17 versus 2 LCAs.
Oucch, did I touch on something India doesn't have? AESA? Wow, you even know Pakistan doesn't want the AESA?

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Again, this particular point I have ALREADY mentioned countless times in terms of the ancillary benefits of the program.
But, as the objective of delivering a Mig-21 replacement to the IAF within a justifiable timeframe and where its relevancy to the IAF would be beyond just a token "purchase" of a domestic product; It has failed.

The LCA program is the failure. Yes, it has had successes within that failure. But at the end, you have a jet(nothing wrong with the aerodynamics or concept of it) that has currently many shortcomings that keep it from being capable of front line service including glaring ones regarding maintenance processes.
So after a first flight in 2001 we have a jet that still has performance and manufacturing kinks to work out in its original spec which the end user doesn't really want in the first place, and the newer spec isnt to see the light of day till 2021. Well, I am very hard pressed to find ANYTHING that defines the LCA program or even the Tejas fighter(not the design or concept but as a whole product) a partial(if the complete term is too acerbic) failure.

Even the Northrop F-20 Tigershark, a fighter that for all reports, for all records was a great jet in terms of everything it did; is defined as a failure by aviation experts simply because it never sold and it never found a customer. Here is a case of a fighter that despite its promising design and concept; isnt ready yet due to various issues of mismanagement in the program from both the IAF and those making the aircraft.
If there is a product that does not do "as advertised" after 15 years since it first flew and based on all public and private reports wont do "as advertised" for another couple of years; then it would require a ton of salt to get any aviation expert besides those with nationalist or vested(foreign subcontractors, etc) motivations to call it a success.

How again is it a failure? Just because it was not delivered in the stipulated timeframe?
Failure in this context would imply that India would never be able to use Tejas as a product for its defence purpose or that Tejas' development be annulled, but the process of induction just began this month, meaning Mig-21s are being replaced. Hence your point is moot.
However if you are adamant on using the word "failure" for rhetoric alone than that's all it will ever be.

As for "still has performance and manufacturing kinks to work out ", almost every other fighter in history has had it.
For quite a few fighters only after induction have these kinks been ironed out, that is literally the legacy of the venerable F-16.

If we were to take the original specs that IAF wanted it was ready "as advertised" years ago.
Tejas is a great fighter with some of its current specs not even matched by some of the so called "already inducted" fighters.

Again, I understand your need to make for us black and white as to what happened in this long development process but the crux of the situation is these things(fighter R&D) are never that and are always grey and when and not if Tejas becomes a world class fighter the points you raised will just be tangents.

 

[GuardianRED]

After 30 years and spending billions, you produce 2 aircraft which is not even weapons rated (i think), that's not a failure? Let's not even start on whether this is an 'indian' aircraft.

You can see this kind of incompetence repeated over most Indian military programs. I shall will can may, the best, the most powerful, typical isn't it?

This is coming from a Newbie? who has zero knowledge of the LCA Program!... Boss there are #1000+ post on this thread ! please do yourself a favour and read it!

Stick to the topic ppl

 

[Han Patriot]

This is coming from a Newbie? who has zero knowledge of the LCA Program!... Boss there are #1000+ post on this thread ! please do yourself a favour and read it!

Stick to the topic ppl

Hmm, you need another 'consultant' for Kaveri?

 

[Centurion2016]

Han

I suggest you research why the Pakistanis are buying out if date second hand Jordanian falcons rather than buy the thunder which you keep going on about in a thread about tejas.

Take the cbinease fighter out of this thread .

Build something in your own not on back of chengdu

 

[Han Patriot]

Han

I suggest you research why the Pakistanis are buying out if date second hand Jordanian falcons rather than buy the thunder which you keep going on about in a thread about tejas.

Take the cbinease fighter out of this thread .

Build something in your own not on back of chengdu

I would rather have F-16s too, but the question is not whether JF-17 is better than F-16s, the question is whether it's better than a MIrage clone with questionable indigenous local content. China can export and transfer the whole JF-17 tech to Pakistan if we wanted to. It's just a matter of whether we want to screw up India.