HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[Bossman]

Tejas is there in Bahrain since last 7-8 days and performed number of sorties( daily) so of course they will need some them.

so how come I didn't see them with JF17 in Paris or Zhuhai and you are contradicting Abingdonboy that length of the deployment is irrelevant. I think this is LCAs achilles heal.

 

[kaykay]

so how come I didn't see them with JF17 in Paris or Zhuhai and you are contradicting Abingdonboy that length of the deployment is irrelevant. I think this is LCAs achilles heal.

Well this was first foreign deployment of Tejas. May be they wanted no stone unturned? By the way everybody is praising Tejas( national, international aviation experts).

 

[Bossman]

Well this was first foreign deployment of Tejas. May be they wanted no stone unturned? By the way everybody is praising Tejas( national, international aviation experts).

The only praise I have heard is from fanboys on this forum. Can you post some links to credible neutral aviation experts and their opinion of Tejas's first outing.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am not an aviation expert, but I all the pictures I see of parked LCA have these big GPUs or whatever you call them, but I rarely see them with other modern jets including JF17 so there is something really different which is unique to the Tejas and despite your long response above it points to only one conclusion that LCA is either a maintenance hog or it is far away from be operational. Just reinforces the general view including that of the IAF about the Tejas.

You're seeing what you want to see. Just because you haven't seen the GPUs in X amount of pics doesn't mean that is representative of the practices followed for operating fighter aircraft as a whole. You're not comparig like for like. The LCA pics you would have seen would all have been whilst it is under testing with its OEM and not with its users. The inherent difference in requirements and treatment is more than apparent if you apply some critical thinking.

Your "maintence hog" assertion makes ZERO sense, because the entire pupose of a GPU is to suppliment (or substitute) the onboard APU/EPU of the fighter jet. It is NOT an engine starter as you keep stating.The APU is not cutting edge tech- this can be bought off the shelf easily or simply devloped in house as most OEMs do (and HAL has done)- if the APU was at fault it would have been replaced by now. If you are stating the JFS is at fault then it makes even less sense as the JFS has been developed with one of the world's largest aviation engine manufactuerers (GE) to be used in some of the most inhostpitable enviroments. As such, where is the scope for the failure on the APU or JFS? They are both relatively simple components that would have been swapped out by now if not working.

Even IF the GPU was required every single time the LCA was operating, this would hardly be an issue, all a GPU is is an external power source, used to provide power to onboard systems whilst the engine/propulsion unit is not running.

To make it easy, I'll give some final reasons to refute your cr@p and then I am going to bed.

Why the GPU is present with the LCA more often than with other a/c you have seen (of that is even true which doubt)
-GPU is being utilised to save HAL jet fuel- APU uses jet fuel to generate power, GPU uses diesil.
-Not all airports allow for the use of APUs for certification reasons and thus off board GPUs are required
- Given that the LCA is still under testing, more time will be required in the cockpit with the engine/propulsion unit turned off for both engineers and pilots to conduct pre-flight and post-flight checks, diagnostics and tests (possibly to validate simulator models) thus requireing the GPU to not strain the APU for extended periods of time
- I forgot to mention, that these GPUs cabinets are also used for offboard air conditioning given the climate in India and Sakir, perhaps they are being used to provide some comfort to the pilots without depleting the onboard APU.


As you have said, you are not an aviation expert so stop making a fool of yourself. I've given you plenty of rebutals now, if you persist with this line of attack it is clear you are not interested in making valid observations but simply clutching at straws and trying to demean the LCA on whatever grounds you can think of.


@PARIKRAMA @Levina @Water Car Engineer @MilSpec @Vauban @Taygibay

 

[Bossman]

You're seeing what you want to see. Just because you haven't seen the GPUs in X amount of pics doesn't mean that is representative of the practices followed for operating fighter aircraft as a whole. You're not comparig like for like. The LCA pics you would have seen would all have been whilst it is under testing with its OEM and not with its users. The inherent difference in requirements and treatment is more than apparent if you apply some critical thinking.

Your "maintence hog" assertion makes ZERO sense, because the entire pupose of a GPU is to suppliment (or substitute) the onboard APU/EPU of the fighter jet. It is NOT an engine starter as you keep stating.The APU is not cutting edge tech- this can be bought off the shelf easily or simply devloped in house as most OEMs do (and HAL has done)- if the APU was at fault it would have been replaced by now. If you are stating the JFS is at fault then it makes even less sense as the JFS has been developed with one of the world's largest aviation engine manufactuerers (GE) to be used in some of the most inhostpitable enviroments. As such, where is the scope for the failure on the APU or JFS? They are both relatively simple components that would have been swapped out by now if not working.

Even IF the GPU was required every single time the LCA was operating, this would hardly be an issue, all a GPU is is an external power source, used to provide power to onboard systems whilst the engine/propulsion unit is not running.

To make it easy, I'll give some final reasons to refute your cr@p and then I am going to bed.

Why the GPU is present with the LCA more often than with other a/c you have seen (of that is even true which doubt)
-GPU is being utilised to save HAL jet fuel- APU uses jet fuel to generate power, GPU uses diesil.
-Not all airports allow for the use of APUs for certification reasons and thus off board GPUs are required
- Given that the LCA is still under testing, more time will be required in the cockpit with the engine/propulsion unit turned off for both engineers and pilots to conduct pre-flight and post-flight checks, diagnostics and tests (possibly to validate simulator models) thus requireing the GPU to not strain the APU for extended periods of time
- I forgot to mention, that these GPUs cabinets are also used for offboard air conditioning given the climate in India and Sakir, perhaps they are being used to provide some comfort to the pilots without depleting the onboard APU.


As you have said, you are not an aviation expert so stop making a fool of yourself. I've given you plenty of rebutals now, if you persist with this line of attack it is clear you are not interested in making valid observations but simply clutching at straws and trying to demean the LCA on whatever grounds you can think of.


@PARIKRAMA @Levina @Water Car Engineer @MilSpec @Vauban @Taygibay

Thanks for your detailed response the reason I call it a maintenance hog is that to deploy Tejas at forward airbases a lot more logistical support will be needed. Say for a squadron of 18 jets you'll need 18 GPU units and going by their size that will require minimum of three if not more IL78 or C17 sorties. I know for a fact that a full F16 or JF 17 Squadron can be fully deployed anywhere with just one C130 or even CASA 235. The whole process is just one roll on and roll off one trailer with all the support hardware needed. The tractor is not moved because they are pre-deployed. Maybe that is the reason it took LCA such a long time to get to international shows. Also for diagnostics I have seen JF17 crews using a couple of rugged laptops. Nothing more is required.

 

[kaykay]

The only praise I have heard is from fanboys on this forum. Can you post some links to credible foreign aviation experts and their opinion of Tejas's first outing.

Interestingly only bashing I have heard is from 'fanboys' too from PDF. But then since Alan Warnes pleases them, here you go

https://twitter.com/x/status/690908645119369216

https://twitter.com/x/status/690945471720886278

 

[Bossman]

Interestingly only bashing I have heard is from 'fanboys' too from PDF. But then since Alan Warnes pleases them, here you go

https://twitter.com/x/status/690908645119369216

https://twitter.com/x/status/690945471720886278

good enough, however except for the agility part, which is basic fundamental, there is no real praise in these tweets. He is said that he met so and so and that the crew were very proud. Good polite things to say nothing more. He also twitted that the Indians were very impressed by the JF 17s progress in a short time. You know that Alan Warnes is on PAF's payroll, he writes books for them and has an insider track with them. I am sure he is sharing his conversations with the Tejas program director/ADA executives with his friends in the PAF and much more so a little praise to get in the good books with HAL/ADA might not be such a bad things. I would not be surprised if PAF paid for his trip.

 

[kalibr]

https://twitter.com/x/status/690909373711978496

Is he Pakistani? His most of tweet is regarding pakistan air force

 

[Bossman]

Also one more question for Tejas experts. Why didn't HAL invest in automatic canopy closing mechanism. Indian aviation has an history with Canopy issues. Marut's canopy used to open up when it fired its main guns. Also HJT 36 Sitara crashed at Aero India because the canopy opened up during the takeoff role. Its amusing to see the Tejas pilot close the canopy with his hand and then push it back a couple of times to check if it is locked. I have never seen that in any second and third generation fighters. I think this is a disaster waiting to happen.

https://twitter.com/x/status/690909373711978496

Is he Pakistani? His most of tweet is regarding pakistan air force

No he is British but very close to the PAF.

 

[GORKHALI]

Also one more question for Tejas experts. Why didn't HAL invest in automatic canopy closing mechanism. Indian aviation has an history with Canopy issues. Marut's canopy used to open up when it fired its main guns. One of Indian training jet prototypes crashed at Aero India because the canopy opened up during the takeoff role. Its amusing to see the Tejas pilot close the canopy with his hand and then push it back a couple of times to check if it is locked. I have never seen that in second and third generation fighters. I think this is a disaster waiting to happen.



No he is British but very close to the PAF.

He is on payroll of PAF. I still remember how Airforce Police shoo away from Su 30mki pilots during AI 2007 as he was asking way too technical question regarding self defense and EW of MKis.

 

[kaykay]

good enough, however except for the agility part, which is basic fundamental, there is no real praise in these tweets. He is said that he met so and so and that the crew were very proud. Good polite things to say nothing more. He also twitted that the Indians were very impressed by the JF 17s progress in a short time. You know that Alan Warnes is on PAF's payroll, he writes books for them and has an insider track with them. I am sure he is sharing his conversations with the Tejas program director/ADA executives with his friends in the PAF and much more so a little praise to get in the good books with HAL/ADA might not be such a bad things. I would not be surprised if PAF paid for his trip.

Well because in an air show, Its agility which is shown to people. Don't expect them to show their avionics and other critical stuffs.

PA: Airshows are all about agility.

 

[sathya]

Plan is to have SP2 first flight before march 16. The next financial year might see 3 or 4 SPs ready for flying.


Cross posting
Credit to bull
Credit to FB
Credit to the one who asked that question

 

[Roybot]

Thanks for your detailed response the reason I call it a maintenance hog is that to deploy Tejas at forward airbases a lot more logistical support will be needed. Say for a squadron of 18 jets you'll need 18 GPU units and going by their size that will require minimum of three if not more IL78 or C17 sorties. I know for a fact that a full F16 or JF 17 Squadron can be fully deployed anywhere with just one C130 or even CASA 235. The whole process is just one roll on and roll off one trailer with all the support hardware needed. The tractor is not moved because they are pre-deployed. Maybe that is the reason it took LCA such a long time to get to international shows. Also for diagnostics I have seen JF17 crews using a couple of rugged laptops. Nothing more is required.

You were saying?

 

[kaykay]

You were saying?

@Bossman

 

[Bossman]

You were saying?

Stupid that is from CATICs factory at Chengdu not a deployment for operations or airshows and I even have one picture of JF17 with a GPU at a deployment and if you had read my previous posts I never said that JF17 don't use them but it seems like an exception not the rule. You hardly see them during deployment but it seems that the Tejas cannot go without them anywhere

Check here High resolution pictures of JF-17 | Page 24