HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[sancho]

Air & Cosmos on LCA, google translated

The Indian Air Force receives first series of Tejas

At Last! The Indian Air Force has taken delivery of 15 January 2015, the first single-engine fighter LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) Tejas series. The device was produced locally by HAL (Hindustant Aeronuatics). Launched in the 1980s, the Tejas flew for the first time in 2001. Since the program has accumulated many delays.

The first fighter delivered to the Indian Army, the LCA-SP1 was released in September 2014. Factory He subsequently evaluated by the services of the Department of Indian defense. He received the qualification "Initial Operational Clearance II" and should be declared fully operational by the end of 2015...

...The difficulties of this project wanted "most indian possible," illustrate those of the country to conduct the moment such programs without foreign aid. If the DRDO and HAL have managed to limit the external supply some aircraft systems, they didn't had to resolve to adopt a US-IN20 engine 404 GE, General Electric (F414-INS6 for the Mark II). A place devoted to the origin of the Indian GTX-35VS Kaveri engine, developed by one of the laboratories of DRDO. It also knows heavy delays.

L'armée de l'Air indienne réceptionne un premier Tejas de série - Air et Cosmos

 

[sudhir007]

Possible mission configs of the upgraded Mirage 2000 and LCA MK1 in IAF

View attachment 181707 View attachment 181708

hi @sancho at the time we use around 1000lb fuel in 6-7 pylon is it possible to use any missile in this way

 

[sancho]

hi @sancho at the time we use around 1000lb fuel in 6-7 pylon is it possible to use any missile in this way

Depends on the available space, but more important is, that those are SR missiles on rail launchers and LCA already has a dedicated station for SR missiles, so that is not the issue. Longer and bigger BVR missiles on the other side might not fit, especially on the inner side of that station, since that side is restricted by the gear bay as well.

 

[sudhir007]

Depends on the available space, but more important is, that those are SR missiles on rail launchers and LCA already has a dedicated station for SR missiles, so that is not the issue. Longer and bigger BVR missiles on the other side might not fit, especially on the inner side of that station, since that side is restricted by the gear bay as well.

why not use Single BVR or if we used SR missile it mean we can able to fire more missile on target coze we have total 8 heard point and most of time 2-3 will use fuel and 1 for targeting pods, so it left only 4.

 

[sancho]

why not use Single BVR or if we used SR missile it mean we can able to fire more missile on target coze we have total 8 heard point and most of time 2-3 will use fuel and 1 for targeting pods, so it left only 4.

As said, depends on the available space if a BVR missile fits, not to mention that it must be rail launchable and not dropped, since the fuel tank blocks the way. And having more SR missiles, does not equal the lack of BVR missiles in modern warfare, you still need dedicated escorts with BVR missiles for protection.
Also keep in mind that all this adds to drag, which already seems to be an issue, the most likely choice to increase weapon load capability, would be increased internal fuel to carry less fuel tanks, but so far we don't know how much more fuel the MK2 will carry. If you can carry a single 725l centerline fuel tank + 1675l increased internal fuel, you can replace the 2 x 1200l wing tanks and use these hardpoints for weapons instead, with even less drag.

 

[greatone]

Half-strength squadrons | Business Standard Editorials


On Saturday, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) handed over to the Indian Air Force (IAF) the first Tejas Mark I fighter built on its new production line in Bengaluru. Fifteen prototypes earlier produced were each hand-built to different specifications as the Tejas evolved. Now, however, HAL's production line will build to a controlled standard using modern manufacturing methods. The first Tejas fighter had flown in September, but the IAF had refused to accept it until HAL could hand over eight fighters together, half the complement of the first Tejas squadron. Eventually, the defence ministry ordered the IAF to accept each fighter as it was built, like every air force does.

This illustrates the continuing problems with the Tejas, and why it has taken so long to enter service. With diverse organisations contributing to its development since 1983 - including HAL and the National Aerospace Laboratories - the programme has been overseen by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), established by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). From the start, the IAF had convinced itself that building a modern fighter was an extravagant aim. Unlike the navy, which took ownership and control of warship-building programmes, an uninterested IAF highlighted flaws and demanded the purchase of expensive fighters from the international market - currently, the Rafale.

Every country that builds contemporary fighters has been through a tortuous learning process - a century for the United States, Germany, Italy, Britain, France and Russia. India has leapfrogged in technology by building what the IAF accepts is a fighter far better than the light MiGs it was intended to replace. The IAF's strength is down to 35 squadrons (each with 16 operational fighters), and with 10 more MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons retiring by 2018. But, even so, the IAF has made its preference for foreign fighters like the Rafale over the Tejas clear.

The Tejas has not achieved final operational clearance. Some capabilities remain to be validated before it can be fielded in combat. On the other hand, the test programme has, however, completed 2,800 flights, with only a few hundred more required. The problem is the delays. HAL needs to build the Tejas faster, so that 10 squadrons can fill the gap created by the retiring MiGs. But just two Tejas fighters will be built this year; another six in 2015-16; eight more the year after that; and only in 2017-18 would HAL hit a production rate of 16 planes a year. Clearly, this is too slow. If the Tejas is to help set up a domestic high-tech sector, then the defence ministry needs to be swifter, and HAL needs to indigenise further, developing Indian small-scale vendors to build systems and components currently being imported.

Shame on IAF if this is true.
I hope they fire the guy responsible for this.

 

[sancho]

The first Tejas fighter had flown in September, but the IAF had refused to accept it until HAL could hand over eight fighters together, half the complement of the first Tejas squadron. Eventually, the defence ministry ordered the IAF to accept each fighter as it was built, like every air force does.

What a load of BS. It was always planned to induct them when 8 fighters will be available, 2 of them should had been produced last year, 6 this year, but most importantly after achieving FOC which was planned for last december. So why should IAF induct just a single fighter last year, that doesn't even fulfil the basic requirements for the operational service?

 

[greatone]

What a load of BS. It was always planned to induct them when 8 fighters will be available, 2 of them should had been produced last year, 6 this year, but most importantly after achieving FOC which was planned for last december. So why should IAF induct just a single fighter last year, that doesn't even fulfil the basic requirements for the operational service?

Yes MoD is stupid to force IAF to induct each fighter as it is built.
Other air forces are stupid too since they induct each fighter as it is built.
And of course we all know by now how stupid DRDO is.
Since you have exposed DRDO's pride and ego after giving ample proofs.


You know the meaning of the word induction right ?
IAF agreed to induct Tejas under pressure but is still trying to sabotage the project at every step.
Whats wrong with IAF following induction protocol of all other air forces
Of course the import lobby is giving bribes to corrupt IAF.
See I can make inferences too and pass my judgement on others.

 

[Storm Force]

Modi should cancel the rafale deal now....

Comit to tejas programme

And tell iaf no new fighters from abroad until Fgfa

 

[greatone]

Modi should cancel the rafale deal now....

Comit to tejas programme

And tell iaf no new fighters from abroad until Fgfa

Qouting a poster from bharat rakshak

This is the same AF willing to accept a paper plane in a Rafale F3-R.

This is the same AF that took a huge risk with the MKI and accepted a lesser Su-27 squadron while waiting for the MKI.

Bailed one vendor, is bailing another and possibly re-bailing the first.

But cannot help a MIC from own nation.

 

[skysthelimit]

What a load of BS. It was always planned to induct them when 8 fighters will be available, 2 of them should had been produced last year, 6 this year, but most importantly after achieving FOC which was planned for last december. So why should IAF induct just a single fighter last year, that doesn't even fulfil the basic requirements for the operational service?

Why? Why not start flying each LCA as they are delivered? Yes HAL is slower than the proverbial tortoise, but not sure why continuing to flying the Migs any longer is a better option than taking one LCA at a time.

Maybe because as each LCA takes to the sky, there will be one less reason to buy expensive foreign birds.

 

[sancho]

You know the meaning of the word induction right ?

Yes, which doesn't mean taking any fighter that is produced! That's even the point, you produce more fighters to raise a squadron and IAF does the same with the MKI as well, just as all forces in the world do it and an unnamed author doesn't change that by talking such nonsense. More importantly though and what this BS article tries to hide, is the fact that achieving FOC was the base for induction, so how is IAF the problem and not the failure to achieve FOC?

but not sure why continuing to flying the Migs any longer is a better option than taking one LCA at a time.

Because LCA in this form is not able to replace a single A2A fighter, since it only can do strikes. Radar performance limited, BVR missiles and gun not integrated, flight profile expansion according to FOC requirements???
So even if you induct a full squadron of LCAs today, IAF would need to keep the Mig 21s in service to keep doing air policing duties for example. The minimum would be, the integration of the gun and reaching the AoA and G-limit requirements, to start using it in basic A2A roles. You can't induct a product, that is not capable enough to do what it was planned for, just for the sole reason that it is an indigenous product!

 

[greatone]

Yes, which doesn't mean taking any fighter that is produced! That's even the point, you produce more fighters to raise a squadron and IAF does the same with the MKI as well, just as all forces in the world do it and an unnamed author doesn't change that by talking such nonsense. More importantly though and what this BS article tries to hide, is the fact that achieving FOC was the base for induction, so how is IAF the problem and not the failure to achieve FOC?



Because LCA in this form is not able to replace a single A2A fighter, since it only can do strikes. Radar performance limited, BVR missiles and gun not integrated, flight profile expansion according to FOC requirements???
So even if you induct a full squadron of LCAs today, IAF would need to keep the Mig 21s in service to keep doing air policing duties for example. The minimum would be, the integration of the gun and reaching the AoA and G-limit requirements, to start using it in basic A2A roles. You can't induct a product, that is not capable enough to do what it was planned for, just for the sole reason that it is an indigenous product!

Was JF 17 equipped with all this before first squadrons were raised ?
What about Typhoon which you lobby for so hard ?Did it have A2G capability ?

Is the F 35 ready for combat ?Does it have gun integrated ?
If not then why has USAF raised this squadron and few others ?
58th Fighter Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These questions are rhetorical, real meat of my post is below.

You have deflected the topic from IAF's refusal to induct each plane as built to the capability of Tejas or lack thereof.
I am not surprised.You have a tendency for it.

For your information, IAF already agreed to induct first few squadrons for air policing and training the crews for maintenance under danda of Mod.So all your arguments about lack of maturation of Tejas are moot in the context of this discussion.

Here we are discussing why is IAF not taking each fighter as it is built like all other air forces of the world do ?When it has already agreed to induct the plane.
What we are not discussing is - Is Tejas ready for combat ?

Atleast bother to understand the subject of discussion before quoting me.


Judging by your past track record, you will either deflect or backtrack your claims.
I am sure of this.

 

[sancho]

Was JF 17 equipped with all this before first squadrons were raised ?
What about Typhoon which you lobby for so hard ?Did it have A2G capability ?

You picked exactly the wrong examples. JF 17 was planned to replace A2G fighters first, the EF interceptors and was inducted with A2A capabilities. If LCA should replace Mig 21s, they have to have at least the mentioned minimum A2A capabilities, so it's pointless if it could replace Jags in strikes, when it can't replace the fighters it was meant to replace.

You have deflected the topic from IAF's refusal to induct each plane as built to the capability of Tejas or lack thereof.

=>

For your information, IAF already agreed to induct first few squadrons for air policing

You are proving yourself to be wrong and don't even realize it.
And again, where is the refusal of IAF? The industry has not delivered the planned number of fighters for induction, nor the planned capability. So you can try as bad as you want, but the fact remains that the problem lies on the industrial side.

 

[greatone]

You are proving yourself to be wrong and don't even realize it.
And again, where is the refusal of IAF? The industry has not delivered the planned number of fighters for induction, nor the planned capability. So you can try as bad as you want, but the fact remains that the problem lies on the industrial side.

Listen I don't want to waste my time with you going around in circles.
You may have that luxury of time but I don't.

Lets agree to stick to just one point- Why is IAF not inducting each Tejas as it rolls down from final assembly line like other air forces ?
Forget about its capability since IAF has already agreed to induct it - rightly or wrongly, that is a topic for another day.
We are talking about mode of induction.
Why is IAF waiting for a batch of 8, why not take one at a time, like everyone else.

That is the only topic here.

Stick to this otherwise please don't bother quoting me.