HAL’s Cheetal Meets Indian Army’s Urgent Needs

[Srinivas]

HAL’s Cheetal Meets Indian Army’s Urgent Needs

The Indian Army has placed a $77 million order with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) for 20 Cheetal helicopters, a re-engined variant of the Aerospatiale SA 316B Lama that was built under license in India as the Cheetah. The order is a short-term measure for logistics support to the Indian troops on the Siachen Glacier because of delays to the twice-bid competition for 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters (RSH). The future of that requirement is uncertain.
HAL has committed to “supply 20 Cheetals over the next four years besides providing training to its pilots and technical crew,” the company said in a statement. It has already delivered nine Cheetals from the 10-aircraft order the Indian Air Force placed as long ago as 2006, an HAL official told AIN. The company is building Cheetals at a rate of one every 16 months. The new version is powered by a Turbomeca TM333 2M2 engine.

“Cheetal is just a lifeline. It is needed urgently because the troops are in a rarified atmosphere and casualties have to be evacuated as fast as possible,” an army official told AIN. But with the production of aluminum rotor blades now ended in France by Eurocopter and the TM333 engine also now out of production, there is concern about the supply chain for the Cheetal. With HAL insisting on paying only the price for these items that was charged when they were in full production, a delay in deliveries is inevitable, an MoD official told AIN.

The Cheetal can operate at an altitude of up to almost 23,000 feet and has a range of 346 nm with an endurance of three and a half hours. The TM333 2M2 is fitted with a full authority digital engine control system (Fadec) and an electronic backup control box system that automatically takes over engine control in the event of a Fadec failure, said HAL.

The company describes the Cheetal as “a multirole helicopter, best suited for missions such as personnel transport, casualty evacuation, reconnaissance and aerial survey, logistic air support, rescue operations and underslung loads.”

HAL

 

[MandarK]

The company is building Cheetals at a rate of one every 16 months

Height of backwardness.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Height of backwardness.

Quite normal, given the production line was closed , and without substantial orders the rate of production is bound to be low.

 

[ANPP]

Height of backwardness.

No, due to low order low production rate. Nobackwardness.

 

[Backbencher]

Self delete

 

[janon]

It has already delivered nine Cheetals from the 10-aircraft order the Indian Air Force placed as long ago as 2006, an HAL official told AIN. The company is building Cheetals at a rate of one every 16 months.

Does anybody else find this part disturbing?

And they are talking about meeting the army's "urgent needs".

In the past 7 years they have produced 9 cheetals (very small and light helo) - WTF? And that too with an airframe that they have been manufacturing for donkeys years.

 

[Srinivas]

Does anybody else find this part disturbing?

And they are talking about meeting the army's "urgent needs".

In the past 7 years they have produced 9 cheetals (very small and light helo) - WTF? And that too with an airframe that they have been manufacturing for donkeys years.

These are there for temporary needs and for future HAL is developing LUH

It is LUH that is going to be mass produced

 

[janon]

These are there for temporary needs and for future HAL is developing LUH

It is LUH that is going to be mass produced

Regardless - If the army placed an order in 2006 for a grand total of ten helos, and they haven't finished the order as of 2013, there is something rotten to the core there. How do you expect the forces to plan and place orders, if this is the rate at which they get even such a small aircraft? The LUH was not even on the horizon when the order was placed, and would not have been on the force planners' minds. They placed an order foreseeing an operational requirement, of ten tiny helos. If somebody had informed them that they would get them in 7 years time (actually not yet), I think they would have gone for a foreign purchase and gotten equivalents in a month or two. These are not some huge strategic game changing space ships we are talking about.

I suppose we can expect to get our last HAL built Rafale on the same day that the first intergalactic battleship takes to space.

 

[Srinivas]

Regardless - If the army placed an order in 2006 for a grand total of ten helos, and they haven't finished the order as of 2013, there is something rotten to the core there. How do you expect the forces to plan and place orders, if this is the rate at which they get even such a small aircraft? These are not some huge strategic game changing space ships we are talking about.

I suppose we can expect to get our last HAL built Rafale on the same day that the first intergalactic battleship takes to space.

Thst is funny mate, HAL needs multiple serial production facilities.

As in future it has to mass produce su 30MKI,Rafale,LCA,LCH,ALH.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Ahem.........ahem

Ahem........ahem, that's not Cheetal, but Chetak. This is Cheetal.

 

[ANPP]

Does anybody else find this part disturbing?

And they are talking about meeting the army's "urgent needs".

In the past 7 years they have produced 9 cheetals (very small and light helo) - WTF? And that too with an airframe that they have been manufacturing for donkeys years.

No its not about production rate. Cheetals are gap stopage for IA & they are doing well what they expected in future heli.

Till so far low production rate was low due to low order for IAF. Now you can see they mentioned delivery of 20 heli in 5 years.

 

[janon]

No its not about production rate. Cheetals are gap stopage for IA & they are doing well what they expected in future heli.

Till so far low production rate was low due to low order for IAF. Now you can see they mentioned delivery of 20 heli in 5 years.

Which is again criminally slow, considering that:

1) HAL has been producing the airframe for decades, and is nothing new to them (except the new engine and other slight upgrades from the basic cheetah).

2) The forces need these as of yesterday. There is a huge urgency for light helos, and the 197 LUH foreign purchase is not going to happen, and the HAL LUH will take time to arrive. Yes, it is a stop-gap solution, and that is PRECISELY why it needs to be fast. Stop gap solutions are by definition meant to be a very quick measure to tide over a period of slowness.

Someone tell me why HAL can't manufacture these any faster, in light of point 1 above. This is incompetence, plain and simple.

 

[ANPP]

Which is again criminally slow, considering that:

1) HAL has been producing the airframe for decades, and is nothing new to them (except the new engine and other slight upgrades from the basic cheetah).

First, if you are trying to say that HAL doesnt have capability of producing heli with higher rate, than I would like to tell you that HAL produces ~20 Dhruv per year, which are much bigger than Cheetal so dont confuse with HAL's capability.

2) The forces need these as of yesterday. There is a huge urgency for light helos, and the 197 LUH foreign purchase is not going to happen, and the HAL LUH will take time to arrive. Yes, it is a stop-gap solution, and that is PRECISELY why it needs to be fast. Stop gap solutions are by definition meant to be a very quick measure to tide over a period of slowness.

No IA need these only for high altitude role. Ohterwise Dhruv/cheetah are doing good. If IA wants them in higher rate than they surely give higher rate production order, but they dont need so higher productiona rate.
Seeing the production rate,I guees there is lack of automation in that plant which produces Cheetah, so IA will go for higher rate than they need to invest more.

Also need to note that HAL also produces Chetak for anther countries/organisation although in very few number from same facility.

 

[subincb]

Which is again criminally slow, considering that:

1) HAL has been producing the airframe for decades, and is nothing new to them (except the new engine and other slight upgrades from the basic cheetah).

2) The forces need these as of yesterday. There is a huge urgency for light helos, and the 197 LUH foreign purchase is not going to happen, and the HAL LUH will take time to arrive. Yes, it is a stop-gap solution, and that is PRECISELY why it needs to be fast. Stop gap solutions are by definition meant to be a very quick measure to tide over a period of slowness.

Someone tell me why HAL can't manufacture these any faster, in light of point 1 above. This is incompetence, plain and simple.

HAL cant produce it fast because the production line for this is not active. They are building ALH in the same hangers as there were no orders. Now when the current ones are moving they might start Cheetal. HAL will not wait for Indian airforce to order. They have enough commitments and according to need they increase production lines.

Now very big space has been readied for LCA, MMRCA and LCH. Once LCA gets IOC there wouldnt be much delay for HAL to 'START' SP's

 

[janon]

First, if you are trying to say that HAL doesnt have capability of producing heli with higher rate, than I would like to tell you that HAL produces ~20 Dhruv per year, which are much bigger than Cheetal so dont confuse with HAL's capability.

I was asking the reasons for the slow production rate. If they have the capability, why are they not producing them faster? @subincb has given a plausible explanation above.

No IA need these only for high altitude role. Ohterwise Dhruv/cheetah are doing good. If IA wants them in higher rate than they surely give higher rate production order, but they dont need so higher productiona rate.
Seeing the production rate,I guees there is lack of automation in that plant which produces Cheetah, so IA will go for higher rate than they need to invest more.

All the helos that IAF and IA operate have decent high altitude capabilities, and Dhruv has the best high altitude capability of any helo in it's class in the world. It is not because we need high alt capability that we are building these. We need these to fulfill a different role, that of a light helo. The Dhruv carries 600 kgs of load, this carries about 50 kgs. This is used either for transporting 50 kg to the forward posts, or for roles like aerial survey of the battlefield and reconnaissance. That is why we need these, and in future the LUH, despite having a world class Dhruv that performs magnificiently at all altitudes.