HAL pegs price of Tejas fighter at Rs 162 crore

[Fahad Khan 2]

First of all The JFT costs pak AF just 15 million for Block1.
The JFT Block 2 costs somewhere b/w 20-25 million.
This article says that Teja costs IAF abt 26 million and then claims Teja is superior which is again pure false.
The market prize for JFT B1 is 20-25 million that this article claims to be the prize for PAF's domestic production.

Indians will be indians

Well answered

 

[MehrotraPrince]

But F-404 is more efficient in wet thrust mode which makes it ideal for sigle engine fighter thats why we choose F-404 over RD despite making it locally.

Su-30MKI engine---------Yes HAL makes them excluding core components which still comes from Russia.
Mig-29 series engine-------No, engine is not built in HAL.

 

[45'22']

OK a country who have fought three wars with Pakistan, one war with China and involved militarily in Sri Lankan affairs, your country is a very different kind of peace loving country no?

out of these 5 wars......how many wars did India actually started........when someone attacks you....what are you supposed to do

sorry for going off topic

 

[MehrotraPrince]

out of these 5 wars......how many wars did India actually started........when someone attacks you....what are you supposed to do

sorry for going off topic

Sorry off topic but you are supposed to surrender or don't involve your air force

 

[Manindra]

Su-30MKI engine---------Yes HAL makes them excluding core components which still comes from Russia.
Mig-29 series engine-------No, engine is not built in HAL.

MIG-29 which would be upgraded by HAL is builded by HAL.
We import only single crystal blisk for AL-31F engine.

 

[cirr]

the Tejas is significantly more advanced than the JF-17。。。。

lololo。。。

Indians feeling good about themselves for no reasons，again！

 

[IND151]

Every single of those humiliations happened to Pakistanis as well. Or you think they bypassed pakistan and invaded India? Most parts of today's India were not ruled by invaders, but every inch of today's pakistan was.

And by the way, some of us think that barbaric practices like raping women day and night are a matter of shame, not pride for those who do it. It is amusing that people like you boast that your "religion of peace" has practiced such barbarisms throughout its history.

Tamerlane was not pakistani, btw. All the invaders were turks and afghans. And before that, arabs conqued and plundered today's pakistan, and your ancestors. Just because you adopted their religion does not make you the conquerer rather than the conquered. Most parts of India remained unconquered by tamerlane or arabs.

I knew that you would start boasting of turkic invaders when your country's humiliation 40 years back is pointed out. Pity that a country has to escape humiliation by taking pride in somebody else's barbarities.

And no, our MKIs were not "escorted". These are fantasy stories made up to soothe the ego of pakistanis after their murderers were yet again caught doing a terrorist act, their only export to the world. On the other hand, your F-16s fleeing in panic during an actual war, leaving our migs and jaguars free to merrily pound your grouund forces and supply lines, is recorded history admitted by your pilots.

Yes. A PAF pilot accepted that such incident happened.

On Topic> I hope Mk 2 is not delayed. Mig 21 needs to be repalceed and for that we need Tejas in good numbers.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

MIG-29 which would be upgraded by HAL is builded by HAL.
We import only single crystal blisk for AL-31F engine.

No, no Mig-29 engine is built in India at present nor will be built in future, we have only maintenance and over haul facility. You can check it any where including Russian as well as Indian gov. sites, we will not find any mention of RD 33 series engine.

Simple reason is that for such a small number of engines its not economical.

 

[graphican]

No, let me explain why?
If Rafale is Apple then Tejas is Orange.

Rafale Vs Tejas
1. One has medium combat range while other has short combat range.
2. One has heavy payload capacity while other has medium payload capacity.
3. One has all the electronic goodies while other has less.

Other reasons why we are buying Rafale:
1. Rafale cost of around $120M-140M also include cost of weapons+Spares+other support systems.
2. Rafale deal also include TOT (for few limited parts only).
3. It also include future JV(mutual understanding excluding costs) in some other areas like Engine and consultancy in Naval Tejas to name the few.

Compare it with MCA and not LCA. In haste you missed my point.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

Compare it with MCA and not LCA. In haste you missed my point.

You missed my other points about why we are still getting(will get in future) Rafale, we need certain technologies either in the form of full transfer or in form of joint ventures like engine which is the most critical component. Pure indigenous effort will take atleast 1 more decade or so, its better we make it short by doing JV sine no one will transfer engine technology without large financial gain and commitment from other side that there product will be used in near future also. Other most important point is that we have no experience in Naval aircraft(safe and efficient designing), so we need one experienced designer who can assist us to cut short the development time for naval version of Tejas.

 

[kingdurgaking]

OK a country who have fought three wars with Pakistan, one war with China and involved militarily in Sri Lankan affairs, your country is a very different kind of peace loving country no?

see your history books are wrong as accepted by your country experts.. there are daily debate going on the same..
For you Hindu's are haram... you will not accept what is being said in outside world also... so there is no point in arguing on the same... Since we are peace loving .... we are getting waivers in difficult groups.. this is one simple proof.. For Srilankan issue... you can read what happend to tamils than reading only srilankan offical version .. you can will come back for kashmir issue on the same.. Kashmir would have lived peacefully if you guys had not involved in the internal affairs.. this is not my opinion... it is Kashmir's opinion .. They praised mushraaf because he closed all the laskhars in the later part of his regime .. which made them to live peacefully... this is what they wanted..

 

[Manindra]

No, no Mig-29 engine is built in India at present nor will be built in future, we have only maintenance and over haul facility. You can check it any where including Russian as well as Indian gov. sites, we will not find any mention of RD 33 series engine.

Simple reason is that for such a small number of engines its not economical.

MIG-29 upgrade would be carried by HAL including engine would carried out by HAL after TOT.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

JF-17's stated combat range is 1352km and Tejas stated combat range is merely 300km...and thats a fact stated by the DEVELOPERS of both fighter aircrafts after testing and more testing.

You're telling me that JF 17 has a combat radius waaaaay over the F-16 and F-18?

 

[Lil Mathew]

Dude, if you take HAL information from 2012...and JF-17 information from 2011 Turkey Air Show..then JF-17 comes out to be a lighter aircraft than Tejas. Almost 100 kg lighter....

Where is the "rant"? Don't be an idiot now.

JF-17's stated combat range is 1352km and Tejas stated combat range is merely 300km...and thats a fact stated by the DEVELOPERS of both fighter aircrafts after testing and more testing.

Why are you crying here? Go argue with HAL....

In essence, if you take latest specifications from "official sources" of both aircraft's manufactures, then;

1- JF-17 Thunder can carry more payload (>4000kg)
2- JF-17 Thunder has 3x more combat radius than Tejas.
3- JF-17 Thunder can fly ~6,000 ft. higher than Tejas' maximum height limit.
4- JF-17 can go far beyond Tejas' maximum range (JF-17's ferry range : 3840 km, Tejas ferry range: 3000km)
5- Speed of both aircrafts is same (MACH 1.8)

Lastly, JF-17 is "deployed" and is "operational" with Pakistan Air Force..while Tejas still have to clear ALOT before it achieves that level.

So as you can see, JF-17 Thunder is clearly leading Tejas by miles. Tejas MK II might close this gap. But as of now, JF-17 project is vastly superior in success and delivery than Tejas.

JF17 IDEAS 2012

 

[holysaturn]

No one is denying that Americans build better engines, but the difference is not of "significance" in performance b/w RD-93 and 404...that is my point.

Tejas engine is a little better, I can give you that..but not decisively better.


You see, thats the problem. You are innocent.

3.5 tons is a prototype 1 2007 number...

JF-17 block 1 payload is atleast 4000 kg (Dubai Airshow statistic from 2011!!!) and many Chinese sources report it to be even more. Chief Designer of JF-17 Thunder stated the payload, at Dubai Airshow, as > 4000kg ....which means "More than 4000 kg"

Most latest payload figure for LCA from HAL was 3,400 kg to 3,700 kg maximum.

So JF-17 can carry more payload to vastly superior ranges.

And that is just block 1 without inflight refueling....


Yes. Delta wing has this advantage.

Both designs have their advantages and disadvantages.





Then people tell me that I go hard at indians.

For the above line, I have a source...a test pilot who flew F-16s, and even Mirage 2000-5 (Middle-East deployment), all his life and now testing JF-17..according to him...JF-17 is VERY responsive and outperforms even F-16 at low-speed, tight turns...while when it comes to Mirage 2000..JF-17 will..and I'm quoting him.."beat Mirage 2000 in a dog fight hands down!"

Now what is YOUR source of the above stated line?

I would love to read through it please provide me the source because I am an aviation enthusiast.Plus all through history we have seen that the aircraft is as responsive as the engine itself and again your argument contradicts this, while you agree that 404 is more powerful and the tejas is lighter you still say jf-17 is more responsive.

I dont get this but ,tejas has more efficient engine has more internal fuel and lets assume by your argument that jf-17 carries 300kg more load but the vast difference in combat radius doesn't add up atleast logically and without any tradeoffs as you say is juts not believable.

I again say this, tejas has lower wing loading ,better t/w(the only disadvantage the mirage had compared to the f-16) so better agility when loaded and also please tell the comparisons above stated by you with the mirage is with load or without ,if it is in clean configuration then it is of less relevance to combat.

The below link by M.Pierre spray(the co designer of the f-16 and a member of the "fighter mafia")shows how a delta wing with a good engine can outmaneuver the conventional config with the same engine,his personal favorite is the draken!!! which incidentally has a crankled delta wing similar to the tejas.
http://pogoarchives.org/labyrinth/09/08.pdf

The tejas has higher roll rates so can do be better in scissors, better HMD(DASH) ,an average pilot in the f-16 and the jf-17 cant reliably use the thrust to instantaneously pitch and turn because of lower control at higher AOA(f-16 operational AOA is 24 and the jf-17 must be around that figure while the mirages is 26 deg),and this can cause jf-17 ,f-16 to stall if exceeded but the tejas according to the the below link has significant rudder authority even at 30 deg AOA
Approach to High Angle of Attack Testing of Light Combat Aircraft [LCA] Tejas

having said all these the risk of exceeding the limit is higher in th jf-17 because of its lack of 4 axis fbw, and the tejas having higher lifting surface and lower load,better AOA can fly slower when fully loaded than a fully loaded jf-17 so in turn can perform better in CAS role.

So I suppose your comments that "the jf-17 simply whaks the f-16,mirage,lca tejas" is lacking base considering the logic behind it and please don't forget to give us the source for your claim I am very eager to have a look.